Posession/Schizophrenia

[slyspectre]

Well it has been a while since I have posted here, since I went back to the Christian life and they condemn astral projection as demonic. Bad stuff has been happening. Within a week of recommitting myself to God, I lost my job through doing something dumb I just normally wouldn't. Same week....I lost my place to live suddenly. The landlord decides to move his family in our home and we're out. I was staying with a friend. Visited by shadows in sleep, one time 3 over me saying something like "he's trying to exchange." Astral sight would kick in. I had the strong urge to move to California where I am from, but came back because I felt strongly God wanted me here in Oregon. Well once I got established here I started hearing constant never ending insults:

"Fag/queer/homo/you're gay" (I am not)
"Nerd" (Studying scriptures or spiritual books or anything improving me)
"We hate you"
"Go away, we don't want you here."
"Go HOME!!!"
"This is my home."
"Go away/home RIGHT NOW!!"
"I want you back"


It seemed the more I moved towards God, the further away they were, but were always here. I would have automatic trance states and even heard a demon say, "Mikhe...come." When I got out of the trance and said no....I heard "queer." I remember the last time I did energy work when this started....I got to myself and heard demons AS LOUD AS ANOTHER HUMAN IN THE SAME ROOM, followed by hearing an angel/good voice telling me "Repent, repent...." The next morning I woke up, looked in the mirror and had 3 diagonal slash marks/lines on my forehead! I'd have some conversations with God for a while it seemed, but those went away.

I hear the good voices always saying:

"Faith/Where's your faith?"
"Don't worry"
"Pray"

I really don't know what is going on, but I don't really want to do the countermeasures per se, for after doing one is when I was told to repent and scary stuff happened. I do not want to move, but nothing is getting rid of these beings. No amount of reading scripture, praying, fasting, getting blessings, exorcism, anything. I also hear something talking within me from my stomach saying things like "Go home." Sometimes when I am about to drift to sleep I will hear the most intelligent of all voices I have been experiencing coming from within my mind. Saying things like this is a matter of HIS survival. The ones harassing me are his guards. Once heard "You're no longer king." (Of this body?) I really really don't know what to do now. All of this because I quit magick and astral projection and turned to God. I won't even go into the months I spent homeless and impoverished after losing job/home/car. I see shadow people frequently. Is there anyone with insight/knowledge who can help. Any help is welcomed. I am desperate. Is there a way out, or is this forever?

[CFTraveler]

Well it has been a while since I have posted here, since I went back to the Christian life and they condemn astral projection as demonic. Well, right away I can tell you that the problem is not going back to the christian life- the problem is that deep down the christian sect you have chosen doesn't approve of what you do, and that is giving you all kinds of guilt and opening up negativity for you.

Bad stuff has been happening. Within a week of recommitting myself to God, I lost my job through doing something dumb I just normally wouldn't. Same week....I lost my place to live suddenly. The landlord decides to move his family in our home and we're out. I was staying with a friend. Visited by shadows in sleep, one time 3 over me saying something like "he's trying to exchange." It seems to me that perhaps the atmosphere you have chosen is not right for you- there are many christian denominations that support your spiritual search, that don't tell you to stop exploring your life and your mind. Maybe it's God telling you this is not where you're supposed to be.

Astral sight would kick in. I had the strong urge to move to California where I am from, but came back because I felt strongly God wanted me here in Oregon. Well once I got established here I started hearing constant never ending insults: Sounds to me that you're tuning into a group consciousness. If the group consciousness is one of 'putting people down that are not how they think they should be' it doesn't surprise me you're picking up on this. It is possible that these people do really think of you as anything you don't approve. And you're interpreting it that way.

"We hate you"
"Go away, we don't want you here."
"Go HOME!!!"
"This is my home."
"Go away/home RIGHT NOW!!"
"I want you back" This sounds to me like you know you don't fit in and are creating those voices. Maybe you should ask yourself what is it in this group you think needs you. For example, most people turn to religion because they feel they need it. But you said you think they need you. Why do you think they need you? Is it because you're there to open up their eyes, to show them that christianity shouldn't be about rebuking people for who they are, that it shoudn't strive to control their minds and prevent them from studying and learning all there is to learn?


I hear the good voices always saying:

"Faith/Where's your faith?"
"Don't worry"
"Pray" Praying is good.


I really don't know what is going on, but I don't really want to do the countermeasures per se, for after doing one is when I was told to repent and scary stuff happened. I do not want to move, but nothing is getting rid of these beings. No amount of reading scripture, praying, fasting, getting blessings, exorcism, anything. I also hear something talking within me from my stomach saying things like "Go home." Sometimes when I am about to drift to sleep I will hear the most intelligent of all voices I have been experiencing coming from within my mind. Saying things like this is a matter of HIS survival. The ones harassing me are his guards. Once heard "You're no longer king." (Of this body?) I really really don't know what to do now. All of this because I quit magick and astral projection and turned to God. I won't even go into the months I spent homeless and impoverished after losing job/home/car. I see shadow people frequently. Is there anyone with insight/knowledge who can help. Any help is welcomed. I am desperate. Is there a way out, or is this forever? No, this is not because you 'turned back to God'. God always wants the best for you. This is something that so many people don't get. The idea that God makes you suffer is wrong, and if you are in a group that thinks that then pain is what you're going to get. You have to realize that if you feel magick is wrong, then stop doing it, but the fact is that 'knowing' the greater reality is knowing more of God, because God is guiding you always. Once you realize and really understand that what God wants is 'to give you the Kingdom', then you don't have to suffer. You can find a christian sect that believes that God is Love and that Love is unconditional, and you'll be ok.
If this truly started when you joined this christian sect, then maybe these voices are coming from them, not from you. So no, you don't have to live like this forever. Find a christian sect that actually practices what Jesus taught: To Love God unconditionally and to Love your neighbor as yourself.
All this gay-bashing and self-hate spewing from these groups is the exact opposite of that. Once you realize this, you can find the right group for you.
This is what I think, anyway.

[ButterflyWoman]

I notice in the title that you seem to have a concern that you might be schizophrenic? If you have any concerns at all about this, you should go to a doctor and tell them what's going on with you, how it's affecting you, and so forth.

In my direct experience, illness of any kind (including mental illness) makes you far more vulnerable to negative thought forms, negative entities, and other nasty stuff of spiritual origin, so seeing a doctor is a pretty reasonable plan of action, especially if you have concerns about schizophrenia.

Blessings to you, and I pray that God will lead you where you need to go in order to receive healing. Amen.

I wonder where DAN is....

I seem to recall mentioning sometime back that there is a difference between psychic attack with voices and true schizo...schizo is unpredictable and scattered. Psychic attack with voices has intent in it and follows a pattern.

The target's senses are assaulted. When the person cannot use their senses correctly, they go deep into their mind as a protective measure and dissociate from the outside world, including support systems. Once in the mind, the chattering begins and it starts off by gaining the targets trust (the perp might send the target a prediction, usually fear oriented or threatening and then the prediction comes true. Perp then tells the target you should have listened to me and then you would have been safe...the target then begins listening to the voice because their own senses are not functioning well enough to guide them through life events...so the target begins listening for guidance elsewhere). Perp will begin conditioning the target for behavior that can be triggered by stimulating the senses with fear oriented material...this behavior is right, this behavior is wrong...ie the behavior the perp defines is correct and the behavior the target defines is always wrong, always sinful, always, always, always. Memory is often afflicted to further cut off a targets reasoning ability. They can't remember personal value or the value of others. This breaks down the targets abilities to relate to others, isolating them further.

Sorry but I see this over and over and I see a lot of evangelical christians targeted. Main reason why, I personally believe...evangelical christians look to the external and not the internal. You look to the external, you react to stimuli instead of act on stimuli. Belief systems of guilt and salavation already exist and are in place and easy manipulate because external viewers of the world react and don't question. Half the perps work is already set in place, and the perp can jump right in.

I'm sure that just came off as offensive, but the fact is it's happening. We're all adults and we can grow from life if we choose to look and be honest.

[DAN]

Welcome to Oregon I've lived here all my life :) About what part do you reside? I live in Washington County now but plan on getting back to Clackamas County out in the country 8)
I've been doing the whole voice thing and lose everything "thing" :? But have dug out and hope to buy property in a year or so.

One of your strongest allies will be sleep.

Sometimes when I am about to drift to sleep I will hear the most intelligent of all voices I have been experiencing coming from within my mind. Saying things like this is a matter of HIS survival. The ones harassing me are his guards.
You've probably noticed every differant voice has a differant motive / function, a little more than good cop bad cop routine. There should be a voice that you hate the worse and there should be a kind voice that you might look for (which looks like the intelligent voice) It coming in when you start to fall asleep is what draws my attention to this.

Good luck Dan

[Astral Exorcist]

I really don't know what is going on, but I don't really want to do the countermeasures per se, for after doing one is when I was told to repent and scary stuff happened. I do not want to move, but nothing is getting rid of these beings. No amount of reading scripture, praying, fasting, getting blessings, exorcism, anything. I also hear something talking within me from my stomach saying things like "Go home." Sometimes when I am about to drift to sleep I will hear the most intelligent of all voices I have been experiencing coming from within my mind. Saying things like this is a matter of HIS survival. The ones harassing me are his guards. Once heard "You're no longer king." (Of this body?) I really really don't know what to do now. All of this because I quit magick and astral projection and turned to God. I won't even go into the months I spent homeless and impoverished after losing job/home/car. I see shadow people frequently. Is there anyone with insight/knowledge who can help. Any help is welcomed. I am desperate. Is there a way out, or is this forever?

It doesn't look like you've got Schizophrenia, those voices shouldn't be the reason to lable you with it. You must be a bit gifted to be psychic to hear your negs in your body. My advice. Get yourself a orgone.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10878 (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10878)

[slyspectre]

Something else very creepy is when I do energy work, the voices become as loud as another human right in front of me shouting at me. What could I do about that?

[CFTraveler]

Frankly, I don't know whether you are schizophrenic or not, or have some other diagnosis. But if awareness opening exercises are resulting in more awareness-opening, then you shoudln't do anything of the sort: No meditation, no energy work, and get a medical checkup. Then it's up to you whether you want to take any countermeasures against whatever is happening to you.
Remember that none of us here are qualified to tell you whether you have a psychiatric condition or not.
However, it's obvious that what you've been doing isn't working, so you need to look for something else. Obviously Awareness enhancing is not it.

[al.luciddreamer]

Something else very creepy is when I do energy work, the voices become as loud as another human right in front of me shouting at me. What could I do about that?

One thing I have learned about horrendous nightmares/OBEs is that if you simply go back to sleep and have another dream, it won't be as bad as the first one of the night. And they get progressively more benign as your sleep edges into the daytime hours. This has made me realize that the bad eventually gets overpowered by the good, as the daylight takes over the nighttime darkness.

Something else very creepy is when I do energy work, the voices become as loud as another human right in front of me shouting at me. What could I do about that?

Stop listening. Period. They're nothing but distraction. And stop OBEing and ground for a while, see if anything changes. Concentrate on physical reality for a while and ignore the voices. Concentrating on the voices only pulls you further into your head.

JUst stop listening to voices period regardless of whether they sound good or bad...because I've had good cop-bad cop played on me and I've seen it with others...don't you get it, you're letting a voice decide what is best instead of you feeling it out yourself. Stop listening and come back into life again.

Another one from Oregon...

Is there anyone from or near Grants Pass, Oregon....

I'm asking because I have met quite a few victims from Grants Pass Oregon. One victim I knew was originally from South Carolina. When her abusive husband kicked her out, she had no choice but to move in with her uncle...in Grants Pass Oregon. Her experiences accelerated when she got there.

I knew another victim that actually lived in Grants Pass...he constanty sounded like he was out of it and would talk about the number people he knew from there that committed suicide.

Victims I meet primarily are from the following locations:

California, Oregon, Texas, Ohio, Colorado, and South Carolina.

I'm not saying there are no victims in any of the other states...I don not live in any of the above states. But I meet a lot of victims from these areas, especially California, Oregon and Texas.

[slyspectre]

Yeah I am from Washington county Oregon. I will admit there has always been something a little eerie about this place. so Dark, you said ground? How do I do that?

I am beginning to think I am not crazy. Possessed or not, that is a different story...God be willing, for I have been on a faithful life path for the last 6 months, praying, fasting, going to church, reading daily, receiving blessings through the Priesthood, and even 2 exorcisms. Schizophrenia wise well let me add it up: I've never been remotely schizophrenic until I began this path. I can make the voices louder if I do my energy work. Before they turned ugly, they would still talk to me in a friendly way, for I was on a Godless/dark path at the time practicing magick (contrary to *MY* belief system).

Another thing that strikes me is in praying to God about which job to take, I finally received an answer. A clear "This one" accompanied by feeling the Holy Spirit, which those of you who have felt it know it is both unmistakable and not something you could fabricate. Definitely not in the depth and power I felt it in that moment. When could schizophrenia cause that?

At times of heavy attack I've seen an astral spider.

I ceased OBEing, for I feel it might be out of line with my religious beliefs (pending a confirmation, for I am really wondering now if it is considered evil since I feel it has helped me by making this happen) yet I ALSO have forced trance states/minor OBE's.

In other words a lot of strange activity has been happening. My theory is I was living an evil lifestyle, and upon repenting my negs (I believe we all have negs assigned to us by the adversary/devil/yang/whatever you want to describe it as) attacked me heavily. It's magick how I was suddenly enticed to go to work drunk and lose my job. Same week landlord wants me to move out because his business was failing and he needed to sell his other home. I was staying with a friend and felt the strong urge to move to California. Prior to this I felt I hated Oregon the whole 2 years roughly I had been here. So I go to California. See how disgusting it had become to me after living in Oregon for all that time, so I decided to return. But could not thrive. I was homeless. No jobs/way out would come. Back to California, then Nevada to stay with mom a couple weeks. Prior to me moving on, in a forced trance state I heard "Why are you leaving?" Mom basically gave me 1000 bucks and said get out. I stopped the night in Sacramento, CA (target area the perp wants me). I was begging God to tell me where to go. (He wanted Oregon, and I didn't.) I wasn't getting an answer and asked out loud where to go. I heard a simple "Go home" which I didn't know was to be the first of many. Where that backfired is I now considered Oregon home. I felt God wanted Oregon, and it was home to me so I went.

I had a job, and was a live in caregiver at the same time. I magically was stuck in a situation now that caused me to lose my job. The whole time there and at home now I was being harassed every moment of the day like I am now.

I now realize something though. The voices I hear really correlate to the negative emotions I've experienced daily here in Oregon. I.e.:

"Go home right now": Wanting to leave Oregon right away. "I hate it here."

"Fag/homo/queer/etc": Fearing people see me that way. Wanting to prove myself by going out and scoring.

"Nerd.": Feeling guilty about gaining knowledge. Feeling like I don't fit in. etc

Basically this has probably been following me for a long time, and working with the things this forum covers has expanded my awareness of it is. I now receive an audible of the adversity I face following Christ. I think maybe it is to help me understand some things I otherwise could not have. I am still seeking but this is my take on all of it.

I'm going to be honest...I don't think this is schizo but I don't think this is possession as we know it either. I can't decide for you though, I will also admit to that.


I ceased OBEing, for I feel it might be out of line with my religious beliefs (pending a confirmation, for I am really wondering now if it is considered evil since I feel it has helped me by making this happen) yet I ALSO have forced trance states/minor OBE's.

I believe what you are describing and have met others who have described something similar. I understand and can appreciate the difficulty of trying to stay in the here and now while being forced into trance state and OBE.

But there are ways to build up to accomplish this task....


I am beginning to think I am not crazy. Possessed or not, that is a different story...God be willing, for I have been on a faithful life path for the last 6 months, praying, fasting, going to church, reading daily, receiving blessings through the Priesthood, and even 2 exorcisms. Schizophrenia wise well let me add it up: I've never been remotely schizophrenic until I began this path. I can make the voices louder if I do my energy work. Before they turned ugly, they would still talk to me in a friendly way, for I was on a Godless/dark path at the time practicing magick (contrary to *MY* belief system)....

The whole time there and at home now I was being harassed every moment of the day like I am now.

I now realize something though. The voices I hear really correlate to the negative emotions I've experienced daily here in Oregon. I.e.:

"Go home right now": Wanting to leave Oregon right away. "I hate it here."

"Fag/homo/queer/etc": Fearing people see me that way. Wanting to prove myself by going out and scoring.

"Nerd.": Feeling guilty about gaining knowledge. Feeling like I don't fit in. etc

I need more information....are you working now and if so, doing what? Are you still homeless? What harrassment are you referring to, do you mean the voices or are people on the street harrassing you?

Listen to me...as humans we take stimuli from our surroundings and try to integrate the information to make sense of the world. The stimuli you are being fed is not natural, and I can tell you now, angels and Christ are not talking to you. They're not going to when you're in this state because it would only confuse you further you can't tell which voice is which (and I know that as a fact because that is something that specifically happened to me). The perps doing this to you are feeding you information to conform with your guilt and religous beliefs so they can remotely influenece your behavior.

In order to ground, you have to stop listening to the voices and stop trying to make sense out of them. Your behavior is not controlling or creating them, they are controlling you. Stop listening. Yes they'll give you a hard time and punish you to get you to listen...you have to do as best you can to resist. They'll make you believe it'll never end, like you're stuck in a situation you can't get out of all in an attempt to frustrate you...it's all a lie.

Focus on the world, not the voices.

And focus on your needs...tell me if you are still homeless and how are you surviving now.

[slyspectre]

When I said harassment, yes I meant the voices saying their favorite phrases.

As for the homelessness I have made it off of the street and now have a great job (actually exactly the same type/position/shift I had before, just a smaller semiconductor company, before it was Intel.) I am being manipulated I agree. However I know God wants me here. They are shouting all day long for me to leave saying:

"Go away! I/We don't want you here."

"This is MY home...."

"I want you back!!"

"Go home!...I'll help you."

When the pressure was high and I felt like going "home," I thought "But I don't have the money...how will I get it?" I heard one of the ugly voices say, "Rob a bank. I'll help you." I wouldn't consider that, but a humorous comment. I feel God is trying to teach me something through this. I just wish I knew how to control the hearing. Sometimes when forced into trance, I do see shadow people. I feel myself pulled out of body. Them saying things like, "Mikhe...come..." or "Don't move, stay right there." Of course I force myself out of it. I've also had something scratching at my back while in a forced trance. If they are trying to be scary, I basically laugh now. AP has helped me overcome my fear of the supernatural. I am just drawing a blank. Your standard religious people sure are unenlightened when it comes to this sort of thing.

I'll agree with you on it not being schizophrenia. The good voices say "You're not crazy" and the bad ones try to say "You are crazy." I do believe I hear angels too however, for I can actually tell somehow when they are trying to fake like angels. I will hear certain things from angels/good voices to encourage me like:

"Don't give up...where's your faith?"

"Great job"

"Don't worry"

The reason I believed it to be possession besides hearing according to usual Christian beliefs, hearing one of them speak from my stomach a lot. My stomach would be making a lot of noise and it clearly would sound to me like the things the external spirits said. ("Go home" as the answer to every question. "I hate you" etc.) There also seems to be the internal voice I mentioned which I only connect to right before sleep which seems to be different from who I am, and a totally new experience as well though it is generally kind to me, but sometimes full of it. (Good cop/bad somehow maybe?)

And the negs will actually start copying them and saying it till I get sick of it and always ignore those sayings every time I hear them whether from good or bad. I could tell they got pissed when I decided to stop freaking out and find a solution to this, for I realized God will only allow this until I learn the important lesson behind this all. Currently I don't really hear them in my home much. The exorcism helped. Traveling to work and elsewhere not as much, but when I am at work inside the factory...that's when they hit hard, though it used to be everywhere. Strange how it happens in certain places now more than others. LOL I so wish I could go back to normal life right now. At least though I see what had been depressing me since I got here. I was putting up with their crap and not knowing it. I will overcome this though. I know it. I seek wisdom on this matter.

This is an article from the Washington Post...I bolded the critical part of the article:


washingtonpost.com

Xtreme Defense

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01227.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/23/AR2005082301227.html)

Lightning guns, heat rays, weapons that can make you hear the voice of God. This is what happens when the war on terror meets the entrepreneurial spirit

By Sharon Weinberger
Sunday, August 28, 2005; W18

"This is very clandestine," Pete Bitar whispered, as his red Dodge Caravan idled in the parking lot of a Burger King near Fort Belvoir. "They called last week, and they wanted delivery this week."
It did feel a little clandestine, if a bit unlikely. Yet there, in the Burger King parking lot, a small transaction in America's war on terror was about to take place. In the minivan were Bitar, the president and founder of Xtreme Alternative Defense Systems (XADS), Edward Fry, the company's research coordinator, and George Gibbs, of Marine Corps Systems Command, who two years ago plucked Bitar's obscure company out of its paper existence and provided it with more than half a million dollars in Pentagon funding.

They were waiting for Superman.

Bitar had battled start-up disappointments and even ridicule -- not to mention January cold and Beltway rush-hour traffic -- to seal his first Pentagon deal. The procurement order had gone through so quickly that the Indiana-based Bitar, who was in town for a conference, agreed to make his final delivery at the Burger King to avoid the hassle of getting onto the Virginia Army base.

Bitar flipped open a case containing his first sale: the "dazzler," one in a line of about a half-dozen "nonlethal" weapons that XADS is marketing to the military. It looked like an executive pen: slick, green and flecked with gold. But the pen was really a green laser designed to disorient and temporarily blind an enemy. Sale price: $1,100 apiece.

It looked, to use one of Bitar's favorite phrases, really cool.

Bitar glanced up. "There's Superman."

Sure enough, a broad-shouldered man materialized in front of the Caravan. He was wearing a leather jacket embroidered with the familiar "S" emblem and a matching tie.

Superman stuck out his hand and introduced himself: Shane Gilmore. Pentagon folks seem especially fond of quirky nicknames and are not above cultivating that mystique. Asked about the Kryptonian symbols, he'd say only, "I'm Superman." But today he wasn't saving the world, just trying to protect it as part of an Army task force buying equipment for troops in Iraq. They had placed an order for 13 of Bitar's dazzlers. Supercharged versions of commercial laser pointers, dazzlers are the lowest-tech of Bitar's weapons, and they're not what initially caught the Pentagon's eye. Rather, it was his concept for a gun that could shoot bolts of artificial lightning to paralyze, but not kill, an enemy, like a "Star Trek" phaser set on stun.
After handing over the goods, Bitar explained his unusual entry into the high-tech weapons market as he headed into Arlington for dinner. The lightning gun began, literally, as a daydream when Bitar was running a Styrofoam recycling business in the early 1990s. Watching the machinery that cut up the used material, he noticed sparks shooting into the air. He began to wonder, at first idly and then more intensely, if there was a way to extend the sparks' range.
But he had no engineering or technical expertise, and his speculation went nowhere.

A decade later, Bitar was no closer to becoming an experimental weapons entrepreneur. But he did have a new business, founded largely to fund an "extreme" hobby of his, powered paragliding. The idea was to turn enthusiasts of the sport -- who strap motors to their backs, take off running, then yank open a parachute -- into flying billboards. He called it XADS -- for "Xtreme Ads," as in advertising.

Undeterred by his lack of engineering qualifications, he began to apply for Department of Defense research and development contracts set aside for small businesses. Bitar started out pitching an idea related to his paragliding business involving a parachute design. But no one at the Pentagon was biting. Then one day, Bitar learned that the Pentagon was seeking ideas for a taser gun. It was like being struck by lightning. He dusted off his decade-old idea and, in 2002, was granted a contract to develop his lightning gun. Suddenly, he needed a new name for his company. "Xtreme Advertising" would sound pretty silly at defense trade shows. Fortuitously, XADS had a handy "D" for Defense.

Now his company consists of two full-time employees, himself and Fry, but he hires physicists and engineers as consultants to design and build the parts for his weapons that aren't commercially available. His job is to be the visionary. "I call myself the glue -- I kind of had the idea and vision of what it could be," Bitar said.

Back in his lab in Anderson, Ind., Bitar has a large apparatus -- 11 feet high -- that shoots sparks about 16 feet. It's too large and cumbersome to be a portable weapon; he thinks it could be used for securing U.S. embassies. He also produces smaller units -- dubbed "StunStrike" -- that he says shoot four-foot bolts of lightning.

His prototype for a rifle weighs about 25 pounds and can shoot electricity about 12 feet, he says.
Gibbs, the Marine Corps official who first funded Bitar, has a fondness for edgy ideas. A chemical engineer and longtime proponent of nonlethal weaponry, Gibbs funds other offbeat projects, such as Medusa, an attempt to develop a weapon that uses low-power microwaves -- believed to cause an audible buzzing in subjects' heads -- to make people think God is speaking to them. Another such weapon would use beams of energy to make people dizzy and lose their balance.
Gibbs acknowledges that electrical engineers in his office said that Bitar's lightning gun would never fly because of a variety of technical hurdles. But, he says, he figured "it was minimal risk to the Marine Corps to try it." He gave XADS the initial $100,000 (that's "minimal risk" in Pentagonese). Bitar was able to prove, by the end of the nine-month contract, that he could generate a one-foot spark with some degree of control, which led to more funding.

Striding into a Lebanese restaurant at Pentagon Row, Bitar greeted the servers in fluent Arabic. "Pete, you never cease to amaze me," Gibbs said to Bitar, as the group was guided to a quiet booth in the back.

Bitar traces his interest in nonlethal weapons to his heritage as a Christian Arab. His father was born in Syria, his mother in Lebanon and he in Michigan. "We're sitting in an Arabic restaurant, speaking Arabic. Honestly, it gives me a little bit of an ad-vantage," he said. "I can think the way a Middle Eastern mind thinks. I understand where they're coming from. So, we can design tactical solutions that deal with that."

Lightning, for example, is a very big fear for Arabs, Bitar contends. Peter Bechtold, the head of Near East studies at the State Department's Foreign Service Institute, was dubious that Arabs would be more frightened than anyone else by lightning guns. "It sounds strange," Bechtold said, when presented with Bitar's idea. But ideas are what Bitar overflows with. His latest is to use ultrasonic waves in the dazzler not to just blind enemies, but also to convey messages into their heads, similar to Gibbs's Medusa project. Hearing voices from God is a "big thing" in Arab culture, according to Bitar. "We flash-blind them. And, while their eyes are shut, you could send a recorded message or deep guttural voice that echoes in the inside of their head. They're looking around, 'Hey, did you hear that?'''

Bitar laughed. "That's the psych warfare side of this thing."

Suddenly serious, he leaned back. "You know, I'm a Christian, and I just believe in preserving life," he said. "Yet, preserving it in the context of order, law and force, if needed."'

Gibbs interrupted Bitar's soliloquy as dinner arrived. "What if I say grace before we eat?" he asked.

With soft Arabic music playing in the background, Bitar and Fry lowered their heads as Gibbs began: "Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you for this marvelous meal. We thank you for this opportunity we have to share with each other and do great stuff for our country."

After grace, Bitar resumed with his vision of bloodless warfare. Hostage situations would be as easy as hosing down a whole group of people with the lightning gun, and "then you could separate them out: hostages and non-hostages," he said.
"Um, just the capability to employ force, achieve American objectives and protect ourselves and yet not kill," he said.
"I mean, this whole war on terror, that's exactly what we have to do. We have to be able to minimize our collateral damage because, frankly, we can't afford for the whole world to hate us for very long."'

"They always will," Gibbs interrupted again.

Over the past year, Bitar has received almost $1 million to develop his weapons. That includes money from the Marine Corps, a contract from the Navy and a smaller amount of matching funds from the state of Indiana. Of all the products Bitar is developing, he describes a handheld lightning gun as the "Holy Grail." But there is at least one barrier he hasn't even approached.

"We haven't done human testing," Bitar said.
"We haven't done animal testing," Gibbs added.
"Yeah, not officially," Bitar said with a sly smile. He would not elaborate on any unofficial testing.

Anyone happening upon the Quantico Marine Base in April might have thought someone was staging a county fair. Brightly striped canopies crowded the grounds, and concessionary booths advertised snow cones, nachos and ice-cold sodas, as visitors milled about and long lines formed for barbecue and hot dogs.

This was the Force Protection Equipment Demonstration, or FPED, the world's largest trade show for counterterrorism technology. Instead of local crafts and game booths, vendors offered the opportunity to check out the latest in bomb containment devices, among other things. Booth after booth of space-age decontamination suits, newfangled barriers, advanced sensors, X-ray machines, weapons and data destruction devices clamored for people's attention, even as a discordant mix of Bond music and reveille drowned out conversation.

One booth allowed visitors the chance to shoot high-powered pepper balls at dummies. Taser International, the country's largest manufacturer of stun guns, was demonstrating its weapon on any willing takers, provided they'd sign a liability release form. Taser's stun gun (which delivers an electric charge through wires attached to two darts) works by disrupting the body's nervous system, immobilizing its victim. By mid-morning, Taser had more than a dozen volunteers, including Sergio, a dark-haired young man whose friends cheered and laughed as he sat in a chair to be zapped, one leg flying up straight in front of him as the jolt hit his body.

The expo is a testament to the entrepreneurial spirit of America, but it's also a vision of its future: a nation mired in barriers and locks, fitted out with all-seeing sensors and closed-circuit television, where terrorism, as one company's slogan goes, "is reduced to a minor inconvenience."

Even among military trade shows, FPED is unique. With only five major companies left in the U.S. weapons market, most of today's military expos feature an orderly array of brightly colored PowerPoint briefings displayed next to plastic mockups of weapons. With so few companies, the jockeying of a typical trade show is absent.

FPED, in contrast, harks back to a different era: the 1980s and the Cold War, when an imminent threat of annihilation fueled a market full of companies competing for a slice of the Pentagon's budget. What started off after the 1996 bombing of Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia as a show for a few dozen specialized companies has today grown to more than 500 vendors crowding two massive aircraft hangars and an entire airfield.

The counterterrorism business is booming. And for those who want to break into the market, FPED is the place. The expo was closed to the public, but representatives of law enforcement and military agencies crowded the grounds, shopping for the latest technology. Traffic into the huge base was backed up for more than two miles on the first day of the three-day show.

XADS's 10-by-10 booth was set up at the back of the first hangar; a table in front displayed an assortment of the company's latest products, including its full line of laser dazzlers. XADS had also added a new acoustic weapon called Screech, which true to its name emits an ear-piercing shriek designed to disperse crowds and cause headaches, Bitar said.
The most striking feature of the XADS booth, at first glance, was a framed poster, mounted on a pedestal, that Bitar called concept art. On it, dark, vaguely Middle Eastern-looking men attack a U.S. Embassy, only to writhe in pain as giant bolts of XADS lightning hit them. A graphic artist who draws for GI Joe and Spider-Man comics designed the poster.
But the star attraction was a simple black briefcase that Bitar promised would shoot lightning bolts. He and Fry placed the briefcase (innocuous-looking, if you ignored the pointed needle a few inches long sticking out the side) on top of a carpeted podium, plugged it into a wall socket and flipped a switch. Then they stood back.

Iridescent streaks of purple lightning snaked out of the briefcase, accompanied by the deafening rattle of what sounded like an M-16, and even in the noisy hangar, conversations momentarily ceased.

"It looks like something out of a 1950s movie," one onlooker commented.

Bitar's technology is based on a technique pioneered more than 100 years ago by the eccentric Serbian inventor Nikola Tesla. The StunStrike uses an electrical charge to break down the air in front of the weapon to create a path for sparks generated by a "resonant transformer," better known as a Tesla coil. Unlike a typical Tesla coil, however, Bitar's invention uses electronics to tune and direct the spark stream. It goes about four feet.

"We can tune it all the way down so it feels like broom bristles, and all the way up to knock you down," Bitar informed a group of gawkers.

Electricity that shoots out even a few feet is enough to grab people's attention. A small, wiry man wearing a CIA badge and a lanyard emblazoned with "In-Q-Tel," the agency's venture capital arm, stopped at the booth. He paused to look at the lightning, nodded approvingly and picked up a business card before moving on.

Many of the vendors at the expo were strikingly similar to Bitar: men with ambitious ideas who entered the counterterrorism market as a second career. George Cairnes, a former pilot, is now selling full-body restraining cuffs. The elaborate bondage gear was developed for police as an alternative to "hog-tying," and is being used by the military, according to Cairnes. He said he had an order for 200 going to Guantanamo Bay. Joe Villa, a mechanical engineer, founded US Bunkers, a Florida-based company specializing in flying saucer-shaped mini-fortresses that can fit in your back yard. Villa conceived the idea after 1992's Hurricane Andrew as a way to protect people and property from violent storms, but he, too, is expanding into the counterterrorism market: Imagine a safe room to be used after a biochemical attack; the company points out it could also double as a sauna. A promotional poster depicts a family grilling next to a bunker.'

With so many vendors, drawing visitors to individual displays -- particularly visitors with money -- is cutthroat competition. Charles Smith, a former Nokia salesman, persuaded a childhood friend from Texas, an attractive blonde, to stand with him at his booth. His strategy appeared to work, as a crowd assembled to look at the blonde, and Smith's product, a desktop machine designed to drill holes through computer drives, destroying sensitive data.

Hesco Bastion, the world's largest manufacturer of sand-filled barricades (ubiquitous in Iraq and Afghanistan to shield against attacks), took a similar route: It hired midriff-baring models to serve soft drinks from a bar made of its sandbags. The show's organizers wouldn't let them serve beer.

Some vendors go negative. Grant Haber, a former police officer and now a distributor of bomb-proof trash cans designed for subways and other public places, hung out by the press trailer, trying to entice a reporter to examine his file of allegations against a rival manufacturer "They've been fraudulent," he said, clutching the folder. "I have proof of falsified test reports."

Back at Bitar's booth, the draw was StunStrike. When the crowd would thin, all Bitar had to do was flip the switch, and people would flock to the booth.

At noon on the second day, XADS captured the attention of a VIP. Marine Corps Col. David Karcher, who heads the Pentagon's Joint Nonlethal Weapons Directorate, stopped to watch the demonstration, and promised to return.
The vendors' eyes followed Karcher, a man who controls $55 million in annual funding, as he walked slowly past the exhibits, explaining his role: He pays firms to develop nonlethal technology and to test it against strict Pentagon and international standards. For example, his office helped develop the Active Denial System, a weapon that uses millimeter waves -- a supercharged version of microwaves -- to heat up the skin's nerve endings, creating a burning sensation similar to touching a 100-watt light bulb. Except the beam, while painful, does not actually burn the skin.

The weapon was only recently declassified, and the Pentagon still won't divulge how far the beam goes, but Karcher says it could be used to control crowds at feeding stations in countries like Somalia and Iraq. "Often you see the people pushing their way to the front of the crowd are young men," he said. "They'll push women and children out of the way."

Karcher pointed to a demo of the system set up at Raytheon's booth. No required release forms here; Raytheon took a more direct approach: self-infliction. "We can't do it to you, but if you want to do it to yourself," the vendor said, handing over a control switch.

When a reporter hesitated, Karcher quickly offered up his own hand. "Press the button," he instructed. The invisible beam clicked on.

"I put my hand there, it starts to hurt, I take my hand way," Karcher explained calmly as he slowly slid his arm away from the beam. The point, he continued, is not to hurt someone, but simply to force a particular action, or to condition a response.
"Sort of like Pavlov's dogs," interrupted the enthusiastic Raytheon vendor.

Comparing humans to dogs who salivate on command didn't seem to sit well with Karcher, who winced. The Pentagon's nonlethal work, particularly that which relies on pain, is under intense public scrutiny and subject to international legal conventions. But the main problem with the Active Denial System, and similar directed energy weapons, is size, according to Karcher. Now the weapon goes on a Humvee, but the military is finding that troops in Iraq want smaller, handheld devices -- phasers.

But it's precisely those goals -- small and long-range weapons -- that place phaser technology, at least for now, in the realm of science fiction. The largest lightning guns in the XADS lab are too big to be mobile weapons, and while the rifle has generated sparks of up to 12 feet, Bitar says, the system has blown out repeatedly and isn't stable beyond four feet.
The military would like something that can go 30 to 100 feet. "We can fire a taser and be very effective at 15 feet," Karcher said. But 15 feet is almost "knife fight" range, he added, and in that case, troops may want a more lethal option, like a rifle.
But for every naysaying expert, there always seems to be a Pentagon official who believes the risk is worthwhile. Franz Gayl, one of the officials who contacted Bitar after hearing about XADS from news accounts, agrees there are barriers to a lighting gun, but he argues for helping nascent companies. The concept of a lightning gun, though risky, offers a potential payoff, according to Gayl. He noted a military officer who built a Tesla coil weapon, claiming to have tested it by shooting it "into the grille of an annoying rude driver in a traffic jam."

Back at the show, Bitar looked bitterly across the way at Raytheon, which was handing out customized jars of spicy hot fajita powder to promote its "burning" nonlethal weapon. Other experienced venders dished out logo-inscribed chocolate and pens. XADS had only postcard- size brochures and business cards.

It was the end of the third day, and still no sales. A man who introduced himself as a buyer for the Turkish military asked if he could get a free sample of Bitar's lasers, or barring that, could he borrow one and return it if the Turkish military wasn't interested. Bitar said that wasn't likely.

"We're not going to do that," Bitar chuckled. "We're not Wal-Mart."

But Bitar noticed that foreign militaries were the most interested in his weapons, and officials from Asia, the Middle East and Europe had all visited his booth. "It's kind of weird, especially because when it comes to weapons, you'd rather arm your own country than someone else," he said.

But he shrugged and added, "A customer is a customer."

Toward the end of the expo, Bitar was demonstrating the lightning gun when he suddenly recoiled in pain. "It bit him," Fry said with a note of concern. One of the electric tentacles had reached around and grabbed Bitar. He rubbed his shoulder. Since electricity seeks the quickest route to complete its circuit, it will reach out and touch the first thing that's grounded, such as a person holding the gun.

Bitar appeared unusually downbeat. He'd been standing for three days straight at the booth, and he was worried about how to keep his business going. Even with $1 million total in start-up funds, he'd have to close shop in about six months if he didn't get orders. "I didn't sleep well last night," he acknowledged. "Busy thinking about things, like how to get through to the Joint Nonlethal Directorate, so they take us a little more seriously."

At dinner the night before, Bitar's confidence -- shaken by the competition at the show-- seemed to ebb. He would be turning 40 soon. The initial success of XADS allowed his wife to stay home with their young son. His bravado momentarily gone, he talked about his previous businesses, which, while not failures, had not really been successes either. The Styrofoam recycling company sold at break even, and his parachute logo business barely made a profit.
Back at the show, Bitar sighed. "You get all this stuff going against us."

But a few minutes later, he was uptempo again.

"I just think we're only limited by our funding," Bitar said, pausing to pack up the cartoon poster of their weapons. "We could do so much more than the big companies." He pointed to the Raytheon booth. "These guys are burning your hand at 10 feet away with $50 million worth of research."

He gestured to the StunStrike. "We've got $10,000 worth of research in that thing, and we can do the exact same thing."
Pausing, he added, "Okay, we haven't been through all the studies and testing because we haven't had all the money to put into it."

Bitar's concerns are not just about big companies like Raytheon, but also about his nemesis Ionatron, a start-up backed partly by investment from the CIA venture capital fund. Ionatron, whose weapons are based on a similar concept for channeling lightning, was founded in 2002, and its stock is now worth more than half a billion dollars on the Nasdaq Stock Market.

Unlike Bitar, who won his early contracts through a competitive process, Ionatron's most significant contract, for $12.6 million, came through a congressional line item, which typically requires high-level lobbying. Another difference from XADS: Ionatron would like the nonlethal lightning guns to be, if necessary, lethal.

But both companies face an age-old problem with harnessing lightning: It is notoriously difficult to control. Making it go straight and far requires breaking down the air, like drilling a path through wood for a nail. Creating this path for any more than a few feet presents a formidable challenge.

Bitar's idea for doing this, like Ionatron's, is to use pulsed lasers to create a conductive path ahead of the lightning. A pioneer in this method is a New Mexico-based physicist named Jean-Claude Diels. The Belgian-born scientist says he started his research not to build "zap guns," as he calls them, but to prevent deaths from lightning, which kills on average 67 people a year in the United States, according to the National Weather Service. But the military was never terribly interested in his work, he said, and nonmilitary funding for research is hard to come by these days.

Now caught in a bind, Diels takes money from Ionatron. He doubts it would be possible to shrink the weapon down to the size of a pistol, although he believes a portable system, such as one mounted on a car, is possible.

"It's taking a disturbing turn," Diels said with a sigh. "I feel a little bit like the German scientists of the Third Reich, who have no option but to do this research because that's what the government funds."

What's wrong with the idea of a stun gun? "This nonlethal technology, I mean, aimed at electrocuting a crowd of protesters?" he said. "That's not really appetizing, I must say."

As the spectators at FPED thinned out, Bitar started to pack up, and Fry went to get the car. They'd be back in town the next week for another show, but Fry needed to return home for an exam: He's getting a master's degree in theology and peace studies. On the way out, Fry looked back at the weapons bazaar and shook his head.

Toward the front, a banner for Hawaiian Shaved Ice had fallen askew.

Perhaps what makes U.S. military trade shows seem so incongruous is that they treat their market -- war and terrorism -- as if it were plastics, medical supplies or textiles. And Bitar is just another entrepreneur. Despite his lack of big orders, back in Indiana a couple months later, he enthused over his company's progress. Field reports from Iraq on his dazzlers were "stellar," he said, and several Pentagon offices had placed small trial orders. A European television crew wanted to follow him around for six months.

The Pentagon also is preparing for the first time to buy large numbers of commercial dazzlers from several manufacturers and give them to troops in Iraq. Gayl, the Pentagon official who has supported Bitar's work, cautions now that he is concerned that some companies, including XADS, are making lasers so intense that they would permanently blind the people they target. The XADS lasers "are way out of line," Gayl said recently.

Bitar adamantly disagrees that his lasers will cause permanent blindness, saying they are eye-safe, if used properly. It's a key point for his company, since the StunStrike weapon has slipped to the back burner, and the dazzlers' time appears to have arrived. Bitar said he was negotiating with what he called a major supplier for the military and law enforcement on a new version of XADS's dazzler. The PD/G-105 is a souped-up laser that would be twice as powerful as the ones Bitar sold at the Burger King back in January.

The supplier, Bitar said, was looking at orders in the tens of thousands.

"It'll totally kick butt," he said.

Sharon Weinberger is writing a book about the Pentagon and fringe science, to be published by Nation Books next year.

© 2005 The Washington Post Company

As for the homelessness I have made it off of the street and now have a great job (actually exactly the same type/position/shift I had before, just a smaller semiconductor company, before it was Intel.) I am being manipulated I agree. However I know God wants me here. They are shouting all day long for me to leave saying:

"Go away! I/We don't want you here."

"This is MY home...."

"I want you back!!"

"Go home!...I'll help you."

No...this is good cop, bad cop...they make two conflicting voices available so you deliberately pick a set of voices to listen to, usually the one that makes you feel like you belong, are loved, are safe. God talks to all of us, but not the way you are hearing it.

This is manipulation. STOP LISTENING TO ALL THE VOICES. PERIOD. START LISTENING TO YOUR NEEDS.

So you have a job, you have a home and needs are being met....stop to listening to ALL voices, concentrate on your life and your surroundings. That's how you get out of your head, reconnect to the outside world, and reconnect with yourself. You can come here for support.

[Korpo]

I would second F. and others on that not listening to any of the voices is important.

The more you try to make sense out of any of the voices the more energy and awareness you lend them. This is possibly what happens to you in energy work as well, and why they get louder. Though that's only my opinion.

Ignoring them, focusing your mind on something else, might be helpful. If you cannot simply ignore them, try to focus on your work and try to drown out the chatter by for example your breath - I mean not breathing more loudly, but keeping your breath in focus and your work.

Shifting your awareness elsewhere, like being present in the moment through breath awareness, might help. If you try this, tell me how you fare with it.


Nothing of that interferes with living a spiritual life. Awareness of breath and being present have been part of all mystical religious traditions. To my knowledge even Christian mystics breath to life, as according to my limited religious knowledge, God breathed life into Adam.

Take good care,
Oliver

[DXi]

Why was my post to "slyspectre" deleted by the MODS? I wrote a post as a Christian to a Christian. Is this NOT allowed??????? There are several Christians on this board, or would you prefer it to not be this way????

Moderation Notice

You are hereby officially warned. Several parts of your original post were against the rules of this site's forum, including the prohibition against proselytizing or outright belittling of other people's point of view, both of which you did.

Do not try to portray this as discrimination against Christians. Your post was out of line with forum rules and it was your post only.

Oliver

[DAN]

Go home / go home to mend that was one of my negs favorite sayings / phrases. Plus a whole lot more.

Since it sounds like we live close to each other, someday we'll have to hook up and i'll show you the better parts of Oregon. It is really a great state :D

Dan

I agree with DAN...if you have a good job and your needs are getting met, I don't see the point in moving away. Keep your job and home, enjoy your work and and try to focus on what is good about your life.

If you start focusing on your life and not the voices, the voices will lower and subside with time. Pretty soon they will get so low, you won't hear them much anymore. And getting focus on your life will also assist with the problem of forced trance state and OBE.

Just because there are a lot of victims in Oregon, that doesn't mean the whole state is bad.

[DAN]

Just because there are a lot of victims in Oregon, that doesn't mean the whole state is bad.

One of the bad things with Oregon is meth problem that's probably why it could be neg freindly.
The state has made it impossible to cook it here now but where an easy import from Mexico :evil:

[Astral Exorcist]

You have developed some level of telepathy. The voices are actually telepathy. So you can hear negs in your body outside your body and in other peoples bodies. The gift of telepathy also makes you if your lucky hear voices of other peoples heads. Once they project their thought outside their body. If they project it loud enough you might actually hear it if your tunning in.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10704 (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10704)

[slyspectre]

You may be right about the telepathy AP, since: 1) As a care giver I heard negs in others bodies too. 2) At the beginning of this, I heard them often say: "We can hear you." I am often sometimes caught by them saying, "Mikhe can you hear me?" 3) They respond to my thoughts without me speaking if I paid them head. I am taking the advice F. gave me, and just ignoring it. Being a pretty serious Christian, Christ is my great countermeasure. I even heard a neg in the past get banished as it went away screaming. But so far, the advice is working well. I even had the inner voice say something like, "You don't have to worry about me...I can't stand this." Of course I ignored it too. I am simply focusing on physical life, things I want to do now. I am finally coming out of poverty. Today is the last day I go hungry since tomorrow is the first check I get from this new job. I am going to get a gym membership, train at a martial arts school again, go back to college and finish my degree (I can do all of this because I work nights from 6:30 PM to 6:30 AM and have 3-4 days off each week in a row.) I will definitely keep going to church since personally upon repenting a while back and believing in God again, I received confirmation for myself that He is and Christ is the Savior, but I also realize each person must find that for themselves. We are fortunate to know with a fact we are spiritual beings. That perfect knowledge having seen our own spirits, pumps life into religion and faith. It's no longer blind faith or something unfathomable. Everything becomes very real and possible.

I feel strongly the answer will come, and if I remain this way it will be for the good. I often hear, "You're not crazy." by the good voices, though the negs tried to tell me I was. I think they just caused drama in my life for changing for the better, and have been trying to make me give up and go away from what God has given me.

Dan it is kind of funny that our negs share phrases like that. Especially considering we live in the same county. I wonder why they hate people of our sort here so badly? I once heard the inner voice say, "They're afraid of you." Maybe revealing to others how they operate?

[DAN]

Dan it is kind of funny that our negs share phrases like that
I think this enforces what Robert says that negs are not original thinkers :?

I wonder why they hate people of our sort here so badly?
I don't think they really hate us. We are just cattle to them :twisted: They torment because that's the easiest way to break us down( it sure seems that they have a blast doing it though)
When my attacks first started one of the voices was like my friend (the one that was always pretty good to me) so i always looked for it :oops:
After they pulled something pretty rotten to me they always kinda did a spirit scream / partyed, so i asked the voice why it did this afterwards all the time. It said it did this afterwards to see what happens. (this was kinda like a powerbooster effect) To get the most out of a sceem.

Your negs seem to use a lot of theatrics (as did mine) so there's some level of intelligence
there. This is to hide its strength. If it's putting a lot of show it must be lacking in something
( i read Dion Fortunes book) Don't get me wrong these things have strength i'm totally impressed with the choke holds (i think those are cool)(but after you show that you liked the choke hold it will not do it again)
You should be happy :roll: that it's still attacking because it doesn't have control of you.

Good luck Dan

[Astral Exorcist]

This is probably your first time. They are giving you a hard time because they think your weak minded. You should learn how to get smart back to them. It will piss them off but it will make you feel incharge of your game. Your ball. I use to get really smart to negs. I even played mind games with a neg that was giving me mind games. He actually felt like he lost is mind tactics his control over me. And it gave me a praise. And even wanted me to work for them. My reply was I don't think so. You will soon learn that what your hearing is natural. You'll get use to it. I promise. Not the negs of course. You'll even have a opportunity to eve drop on a negs conversation. But your natural gift of telepathy. Your still a newbie, That explains why you thought your natural gift was some sort of schizophrenia. I would hate to see you on the sedative pills by the mental health act. When really you've come a bit psychic. In any case of a emergency and you really can't handle their voices. Ask a psychic to drop your vibration so you can live at ease. This is only in a case of a emergency. But it shouldn't happen. Try handle it. Be smart. Goodluck

[Astral Exorcist]

Their is something I would like to share with you. I want you to learn your winning mind. You sound energy fit enough. So your ready for this exercise. If you've got negs around you. You can do this exercise. Once you've learned your winning mind. You will never fear negs again. I promise that too. You will feel confident in yourself after you done this exercise well. The purpose of doing this is to make you feel more powerful then the negs. So you will earn a no fear states. Once your not weak minded negs won't bother you so much. Mentally threw telepathy.

This exercise works well, when you feel you fear dieing. I will explain now why fear works. Fear works in motivating you to fight in fear. Your emotions are running into it aswell. The fear will be no longer when you feel ontop of your world. Instead of feeling so low that your heads in the street gutter. You can feed of your adrenalin aswell and put that energy into the snake. I remember feeding of my fear to raise this good snake up. After a while the fear and adrenalin will go away when your winning over negs in your room. Your ego will save you, when your really low. Once you get this thing up. I bet you, will thank me later.

Try this exercise. And let me how you do. Okay?
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=9828 (http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=9828)

[Astral Exorcist]

This will definitely work.

Just remember to feel really passionate about it.
And believe in your though form creation.

Goodluck, have some fun.

[ButterflyWoman]

To my knowledge even Christian mystics breath to life, as according to my limited religious knowledge, God breathed life into Adam.
That which is usually translated as "Holy Spirit" is, in Greek, "sacred breath". The Holy Spirit, which is believed to be "indwelling" (living in us) is very much associated with the "Breath of God".

The "breath of God" appears in the Old Testament, as well, particularly in the creation story (the Breath of God stirred on the surface of the waters... one of my favourite poetic images).

[Astral Exorcist]

I'm guessing the breath of life is prana breathing. :mrgreen:

[dslandolfe]

...

[Korpo]

dslandolfe,

again your words remind me of something:

In Taoist meditation there are the stories you tell yourself. You might have thousands of inner stories inside that arise inside yourself. These stories shape how you see life, but in meditation you should never become engrossed in the story nor pick up an agenda mindlessly. Realise what is behind the story, and follow that. The energy leads back to the reason and dissolves it.

The story was not self, and dissolves away together with the energetic imbalance that made you have the story. The story tells the world how it should be, or how you see it, but dissolving the blockage inside your mind makes the energy to flow again and change together with what really is, instead of telling yourself a story and resisting change.

If not, the story accumulates energy. The blockage grows. The more you obsess about the story, the more story starts to shape your life and generate suffering, as the world is as it is and does not conform to stories. Every time you resist the world as is, do not accept it *before* you try to change it to the better, the story accumulates more resistance and power in your ego. This is the way the main stories in our life "float to the top" and become dominating personality traits, IMO.

I can barely imagine how that would work if the process of evaluating a story and verifying its (in)validity would be out of control. Then stories completely take on a life of their own, I'd assume.

Be well,
Oliver

[DAN]

but there is a book called
The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle that I'm not kidding might actually be able to provide you a cure to your illness and has caused dramatic healings ranging from healing of mental illness, to serious physical illnesses, to spiritual transformations to a suprising number of ppl. The book had that effect on me and is used even by many Catholics and other Christians, even by some nuns and priests as a booster to their own Christian practices of prayer, Christian meditation, and so on and would do a ton of good for you to read and put into practice right away. He includes in his book a practice of watching your thoughts that watching the "pain body" (which he has identified as what Christian's call Satan in his talks) which if practiced daily will quickly begin to release you from aspects of Schizophrenia, this being because in schizophrenia the pain body and "the thinker" have taken over your life. In any case if you can manage get a copy of that book, it's highly recommended by
many psychiatrists and will likely help you profoundly.
I didn't like the book, but then i probably hold a grudge on the way it was sent to me. But i thought i'd humble these people by trying to read it. The book repulsed me He's a flake :twisted: Probably had more of a "depersonalization episode" and calls it "enlightenment" and wrote a book with a lot of the same flare as the others in this industry.

I think people can do a lot better if they educate themselves instead of admireing someone that bummed off of society and then exploits it :?

Dan

[dslandolfe]

...

[Korpo]

dslandolfe,

I wish you would appreciate the art of making paragraphs more. :)

Eckhart Tolle - don't know. He does not say anything wrong. He is "correct" (JMO), but it feels forceful and harsh and not very helpful. But since it helped so many people it seems, I would say enough need "the message" this way it seems. I found it - coming from him - ... strange?

I have no problem with the content of the message, but maybe his "you just do it" approach in my personal experience does not work for everyone.

Oliver

[star]

Its a good trick though-If I told you to go into your crown chakra and enter through the gates, pass into the center of the chakra and find something specific within your higher self through this connection you'd be like; "What?!" But if I then stopped your line of thinking and went: "JUST DO IT!" kinda shocks some people into getting it or flipping that switch. :)

[DAN]

Thanks dslandolfe for this wealth of information :D I've been doing a lot of pawing around getting info on ET wondering why this guy bothers me :? His book was shoved on me by a couple of people
I don't know if most EK followers are all this pushy.


Actually he was a reasearch scholor at Cambridge studying for his PHD and a was the valedictorian of his class there
This probably explains why he's marketed as well as he is (I figured he's well educated) he knows what works. But your right he has a right to make a buck. And Oprah backing (being the richest woman in the world she knows how to make a few too!) him. I seen him exploit Oprahs
backing to the max

Me and my wife went to are local new age shop the other day owned by an old couple. (the woman also doe's reiki at the shop) The woman is pretty big and doesn't seem to get around very well (whether its illness, age or weight?) and the husband hobles around and lacking energy. I ask my wife that seems odd they doing this healing and all sorts and look at them. My wife kind of chuckles and said a qoute i think out of one of Silver ravenwolfs books is how do you expect to teach / heal someone if you don't show some kind of example Be it looking healthy / appearance / actions

See the whole money thing seems like it conflicts with the enlightenment

This is actually something like the standard occurance when an Indian saint becomes liberated. They spent a certain amount of time in quiet appreciation for the powerfully sacred state they've newly entered into. This also serves as a period of adjustment because some of them have trouble going about they normal activities of life just after such an occurance because they've become so deeply immersed in the formless light of the void. There is such deep peace, joy, and stillness suddenly available to them that they would probably want to take a little time off and enjoy it for a while before returning to the world
Us former drug addicts experinced this 8)

[dslandolfe]

...

[Korpo]

No true Guru or Buddha charges their devotees for listening to them speak over in the East.

What do you think alms are? A community has to support the teacher, or the teacher has to support itself. Solitary teachers in Taoism charge, for example.


Over there they assert that enilghtenment should be for everyone, not just those with money to spare and I think this is an itegral understanding in the world of spiritual realization.

I think that is a broad generalisation, and not true. Try to have a retreat at a monastery, try to go to talks, and you will find that regardless of degree of enlightenment people eat, sleep under a roof, etc. In India, the Guru is revered and given gifts to. It is easy to say "I give free of charge" when people give on their own. Buddhists expect good karma when they give to monks, etc.

In the West, other means have to be found. Besides, many people don't value what is free and it is hard to carry a message when you cannot promote it. It would be like ignoring the times we live in if someone thought they could walk around America and preach on the streets. The teaching would fall on deaf ears and the preacher would be considered a bum or lunatic.


This is the one area that I think Tolle is lacking in although it seems an honest mistake on his part. I find it depressing though that one cannot find an enlightened teacher in the West to begin with with and then the one that I have found won't give me his time unless I pay a good bit of money and even then would have to travel hundreds of miles to hear his next talk and pay all over again resulting in all manner of travel expenses to boot.

Try to go to an Indian ashram. See what it entails. Report back. ;)


I find myself longing for an enlightened teacher here in the West who would simply give spiritual instruction without asking for something in return. They may exist although I'm not aware of them if they do. Tolle is the only Westerner I've ever encountered that appears to have reached authentic enlightenment, albeit as a result of the intense suffering in his life and not by virute of his success with spiritual disciplines.

Bruce Frantzis claims to have found "The Great Stillness", Adyashanti claims enlightenment. They are Westerners. They developed a practice or learnt one, and they teach it. But still this needs logistics and a realistic approach. Why shouldn't you pay with your work for the time so that the teacher can focus on teaching? Should Eckhart Tolle work 9-5 and then jet around the US to give a lecture and back? How is that doable? Face it - if a message should reach more than a minority, it needs to be marketed and sold. That's the sad reality of our society.

Oliver

[CFTraveler]

This reminds me of something Swami Vivekananda said once: (quoting from memory, I have the book he wrote) If you want to be rich in the West you sell something material, if you want to be rich in India start a religion. He was not criticizing anyone, he was talking about the difference in values the East and West have.
Ps. I'd rather pay $14 for a book I may or may not like than pay to join a religious tradition and my lodging, etc. to see if it resonates with me. But I haven't done that yet.

[myusername]

Well it has been a while since I have posted here, since I went back to the Christian life and they condemn astral projection as demonic. Bad stuff has been happening. Within a week of recommitting myself to God, I lost my job through doing something dumb I just normally wouldn't. Same week....I lost my place to live suddenly. The landlord decides to move his family in our home and we're out. I was staying with a friend. Visited by shadows in sleep, one time 3 over me saying something like "he's trying to exchange." Astral sight would kick in. I had the strong urge to move to California where I am from, but came back because I felt strongly God wanted me here in Oregon. Well once I got established here I started hearing constant never ending insults:

"Fag/queer/homo/you're gay" (I am not)
"Nerd" (Studying scriptures or spiritual books or anything improving me)
"We hate you"
"Go away, we don't want you here."
"Go HOME!!!"
"This is my home."
"Go away/home RIGHT NOW!!"
"I want you back"


It seemed the more I moved towards God, the further away they were, but were always here. I would have automatic trance states and even heard a demon say, "Mikhe...come." When I got out of the trance and said no....I heard "queer." I remember the last time I did energy work when this started....I got to myself and heard demons AS LOUD AS ANOTHER HUMAN IN THE SAME ROOM, followed by hearing an angel/good voice telling me "Repent, repent...." The next morning I woke up, looked in the mirror and had 3 diagonal slash marks/lines on my forehead! I'd have some conversations with God for a while it seemed, but those went away.

I hear the good voices always saying:

"Faith/Where's your faith?"
"Don't worry"
"Pray"

I really don't know what is going on, but I don't really want to do the countermeasures per se, for after doing one is when I was told to repent and scary stuff happened. I do not want to move, but nothing is getting rid of these beings. No amount of reading scripture, praying, fasting, getting blessings, exorcism, anything. I also hear something talking within me from my stomach saying things like "Go home." Sometimes when I am about to drift to sleep I will hear the most intelligent of all voices I have been experiencing coming from within my mind. Saying things like this is a matter of HIS survival. The ones harassing me are his guards. Once heard "You're no longer king." (Of this body?) I really really don't know what to do now. All of this because I quit magick and astral projection and turned to God. I won't even go into the months I spent homeless and impoverished after losing job/home/car. I see shadow people frequently. Is there anyone with insight/knowledge who can help. Any help is welcomed. I am desperate. Is there a way out, or is this forever?


Nothings forever.

You used to do magick, I was thinking you might have made connections with dark beings who don't want to let you go. If your getting inexplicable slashes across your face I wouldn't worry about schitzopherenia.

I wouldn't engage the voices wether they seem good or bad.

[myusername]

Something else very creepy is when I do energy work, the voices become as loud as another human right in front of me shouting at me. What could I do about that?


Stop doing it is all I can advise, do worldy things for while, it's a pain but once you've got the voices under control you can start spiritual stuff again.
It's unusualy for voices to be actualy heard, I have heard that listening to music (something lighter rather than darker) through head phones alot of the time can help.

[DAN]

It's unusualy for voices to be actualy heard, I have heard that listening to music (something lighter rather than darker) through head phones alot of the time can help.
Lighter music is ok if it's something you really like.(that keeps your attention to the music) But the more popular is like brass bands (for fighting back voices). I myself like music that changes pace a lot so there's not very much rythm in it, to actually help the neg and put you in a suggestive state.

[Tpath]

Wanted to respond to a particular statement, decided to just post what I know. I spoke to a deliverance minister and asked questions, anyway, he said basically that business was greatly up, if you know what I mean and that he would actually do deliverances on entire congregations at a time because so many are going in - that “the biggest problem the church has today is all of The possessed Christians”
bearing that in mind...
what is a Christian?
‘Are you sure about that?
what does the Bible say a believer and Son of God is?
so...
there is a ramp up exponentially in spiritual attacks, many got very worse around 2014-15
there is possession, you aren’t exercised, you are delivered. What’s the difference? Exorcism is like poking an alligator with a cattle prod and hoping he’s left
deliverence means it’s gone- if done right it (they) will not come back because Jesus has filled and cleaned the place they left. Hind, healing time after that. Jesus cattle prods the alligator and then removes and finishes it off in righteous judgement.
”ok, so how do you know the difference between schizophrenia and possession?
First, we are dealing with things way out of our league - “what do you mean, aren’t we powerful?” Nope. All power originates from God, he can take it back at any time, these things started out good, then rebelled, created unnatural offspring that is now the little voices most people are hearing plaguing them in their heads and souls/spirits. The sons of the fallen are decrepit monsters, no more. They are under the authority of Jesus, we are given authority (some are under his direction) to “cast out demons and heal the sick”
”7As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near.’ 8Heal (https://biblehub.com/greek/2323.htm) the sick, (https://biblehub.com/greek/770.htm) raise (https://biblehub.com/greek/1453.htm) the dead, (https://biblehub.com/greek/3498.htm)cleanse (https://biblehub.com/greek/2511.htm) the lepers, (https://biblehub.com/greek/3015.htm) drive out (https://biblehub.com/greek/1544.htm) demons. (https://biblehub.com/greek/1140.htm) Freely (https://biblehub.com/greek/1432.htm) you have received; (https://biblehub.com/greek/2983.htm) freely (https://biblehub.com/greek/1432.htm) give. (https://biblehub.com/greek/1325.htm) 9Do not carry any gold or silver or copper in your belts.… Matthew 10 7-9
he told that to those he was trying for the task, so be careful...
Acts 19:11-20 English Standard Version (ESV)The Sons of Sceva11 And God was doing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons that had touched his skin were carried away to the sick, and their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them. 13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists undertook to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “I adjure you by the Jesus whom Paul proclaims.” 14 Seven sons of a Jewish high priest named Sceva were doing this.15 But the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I recognize, but who are you?” 16 And the man in whom was the evil spirit leaped on them, mastered all[a (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+19%3A11-20&version=ESV#fen-ESV-27588a)] of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17 And this became known to all the residents of Ephesus, both Jews and Greeks. And fear fell upon them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was extolled.
So... we don’t just go out Willy billy thinking we are power rangers and get creamed or possessed by the things we are trying to remove, because they can and do jump, through sex especially.
2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV)15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
we get accurate help from God first. Second, you can’t deliver yourself, I believe that, it would be like trying to slap your own face THROUGH a mirror, so-to-speak, you need help, it can be done remotely over the phone, but don’t underestimate Gods power, Peters anointing was strong enough to heal the sick.
‘So there are definitely parameters and protocols, you are dealing with highly intelligent beings and yes, they do hate us- in fact, they wanted to take our place before the flood anhialated most of them, some survived below the surface, most are interdimensional now and that’s why they need to possess other people to bridge the gap between dimensions (short explanation there) you then become a type of puppet or mouthpiece, also a live snooping machine.
Look up voice to skull or gods voice technology on YouTube, and watch the Harvard Dr Robert Duncan first, so you can believe it, then watch Destroying the Illusions channel on controlling your mind with the Voice of God technology, then tell me how much tech and mass hypnosis you feel exists in our world in 2018?

[olyris]

Look up voice to skull or gods voice technology on YouTube, and watch the Harvard Dr Robert Duncan first, so you can believe it, then watch Destroying the Illusions channel on controlling your mind with the Voice of God technology, then tell me how much tech and mass hypnosis you feel exists in our world in 2018?
The angels told me in 2011 that they had been "hacked in"... taken from the astral and made to work on the Hu sound, which is a voice in your head, sounding quite like a vacuum cleaner. Computers make that sound too. I understand this situation - i hear christian god voices in my mind, and they have been "working on," the perfect reality. Something beyond heaven and hell, if you ask me... an ultimatum chance to serve... not just in self but in god. I sense that the believers have basically forgotten what this is except through Christ. Much stigma, then, to the servant of God, who exists within all, as jesus, as muhammad, as whoever. All "myths" do that too. Only one person doesn't like servants--- bullies.

[Tpath]

The angels told me in 2011 that they had been "hacked in"... taken from the astral and made to work on the Hu sound, which is a voice in your head, sounding quite like a vacuum cleaner. Computers make that sound too. I understand this situation - i hear christian god voices in my mind, and they have been "working on," the perfect reality. Something beyond heaven and hell, if you ask me... an ultimatum chance to serve... not just in self but in god. I sense that the believers have basically forgotten what this is except through Christ. Much stigma, then, to the servant of God, who exists within all, as jesus, as muhammad, as whoever. All "myths" do that too. Only one person doesn't like servants--- bullies.

Interesting concepts here, why? Because they are so far over our heads that we can’t really place physical associations from our world with theirs. That makes it tricky. It would be like taking a 30 year old computer and trying to run a current version of AI from a quantum computer and expecting it to work, we simply weren’t made to have that capacity, it has to be “installed” or upgraded in us. This being the case, aside from ego and pride, which reside in everyone, when man gets to the point that he can fool around with the Creators handiwork, His creation, then man risks breakdowns in the very symmetry that God created. One building block is directly related to another- not just separate, for a reason. He did that so no one could mess with it easily. He knew they would attempt it. “Just as in the days of Noah...” are we not achieving biological and mechanical levels way beyond anything since that period? Does anyone here (of reasonable IQ) still believe we crawled out of ooz as fish, only to diversify into such a complex organizational matrix? Sounds a bit foolish now doesn’t it? Then, all of the sudden, someone will say: “sorry, Darwin was a bit off, and we need to enlighten you” ok. So you want to be enlightened? But you just don’t want to hear the truth. Free Will Planet, heard that term before? Prison Planet, Heard that one? (General to the crowd Olyris, not you here) If someone was in hell and was raised from the dead you would not believe them, heard that one before? It’s because of the mass-hypnosis that is being generated by the same fields many of you are trying to keep up. Where does that lead? Look at fallen angels that wanted man off of what they considered “their planet” (hence, after judgement, Prison Planet) and now 7 billion people, and technology rising out of control, mechs capable of tearing humans apart, but they are just for fun right? Drone delivery systems going up that could deliver any number of leathal items to millions overnight, an untested as far as human or animals are concerned, 5G direct beam system that is many times more powerful than the weak 4G system that is now in place. Amazon and Google listening devices in our homes, controlling our appliances, stoves, heat/cooling, and what if you disagree with the government and speak out about that? What if they are taking your money away and you have no more free speech to counter that in court? Do you think that the Fallen are going to support your case when they sent the ones to oppress you in the first place? It was never about helping man, not after the oath was taken, it was about taking the planet. We need to think that the original owner is coming back to take it, that this planet is a construct that will be “... the heavens and earth will someday be rolled up like a blanket” and understand that we all are being given a chance to make the right decisions, but at the same time religion has been corrupted, as it always has been, and the name above all names, the true Jesus Christ, born of the Virgin Mary, died on the Cross for our sins, resurrected and sitting at the Right hand of Father God, will touch His foot on the Mount of Olives and re-take possession of it. Ten thousand years of rebellion a short time as far as Heaven is concerned, a drop in eternity. So, for those who would even consider my words, as they are being blanketed in New Age satanic goo, clogging up their ability to see anything but the illusions placed at us by the Fallen angels, realize that what I’m saying is true, and that there is no other way to Father God but by Jesus His son, Not Mohammed, nor any other entity seeking to ursurp what isn’t theirs to take or possess.
Cheers.

[Tpath]

We are all enveloped by an attempt to take over our planet- we are going to watch as complete biological and incredible mechanical control is displayed. We will also see excuses as to why too many people are on the earth and why it needs to be cleaned off. Which one of you truly believes that there is some place safe for your spirit to run too if the Fallen take over the planet? You know you are dealing with things far above your own intelligence, that’s why it’s so “cool,” right? Give a human a fancy light show and they will bow down and worship you like a group of scared Chickens reacting to a dog in their pen. Our own programming is set for the earth at temperate conditions, not supernatural ones, so our brains get overloaded and emotional whenever the ethereal decides to make a spectical- we then see that something has the ability to alter what we know no man can, and we worship it like people have since the beginning. Not much time left, and the grace has been removed, so we want to watch who it is we appease. Anyone see “God’s of Egypt?” It’s pretty like that, but they are all more like Seth, and none of them like what they depicted as Horus, or Rah. You have to understand that the same 13 principalities have appeared in Greek, Roman, Babylonian, etc. as the same little “g’s” over and over again, all with one purpose in mind: to take over the Earth for themselves, just like what was happening before the flood, the Tower of Babel, etc. when giants ruled the land (Nephilum). Didn’t just make this stuff up guys and repeat it here from a fantasy novel, it’s real. Good luck.

[olyris]

Yes it does indeed seem to be a critical time for faith. My guess: without faith the world turns to "wisdom," which lacking faith is but a face in darkness waiting to die "gratefully." Nothing wrong with wisdom or gratitude here, i'm just pointing out what i call DEATH.