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Jev
20th January 2009, 11:21 AM
Hi,
Straight from beginning, when I first started reading "Astral Dynamics" one year ago, I found that best results with exercises form this book I can achieve wile Taming my Monkey Mind by breathing awareness.
In a beginning I was doing it only during exercises.
Later I started doing it more frequently and one day I recognized that I actually doing Taming of my Monkey Mind already constantly all the time in all daily situations.
I'm little bit worry about it. Maybe I should stop or reduce frequency of it.
What do you think?
What is your experience with Monkey Mind?
Thanks
Jev

ButterflyWoman
20th January 2009, 01:34 PM
The better control you can get over your monkey mind, the more you'll progress in pretty much everything spiritual. I don't think there's any such thing as having too much control over your thoughts, emotions, etc.

CFTraveler
20th January 2009, 02:05 PM
My opinion is that if you are starting to doubt yourself it's for a reason. It may not be the 'taming of the monkey mind' that gives you pause, but your apparent (notice I said apparent) compulsive attitude about it. If it gets in the way of your normal functioning, then you need a different approach- but if it works for you, then you don't need to worry about it.

Korpo
20th January 2009, 02:20 PM
Jev,

Robert's technique is, IIRC, suppressing thoughts. It's this thing about trying to suppress mind words as they arise, yes?

This idea stuck somehow. It gives me an effect like if I turned the volume of my mental voice down to inaudible, but somehow everything that occupied my mind is still there, unexpressed. For me it replaces mental, monkey mind churning with a feeling of pressure, and frankly, gives me a headache.

When I turned to trying to observe my thoughts later on I could not, as turning my attention invariably at some level seemed to mean creating this (compulsive) effect. You cannot observe what at the same time try to suppress. That has been a real problem, the mental habit it created.

Of all techniques in MAP, which I generally liked and was good inspiration, this one suited me the least, and it was the first one I researched a replacement for, leading me to all kinds of things, like Buddhist breath meditation, etc.

"Mind Taming" is like telling everyone in the room to shut up. It creates an uneasy silence, IMO. Other meditation techniques that again and again bring the mind gently back to an object of meditation work better for me. This also reduces mental chatter and - again IMO - is a more rewarding experience.

Surely that is because I have certain mental habits - like being compulsive - and I really don't think "Mind Taming" is for everyone, especially compulsive types.

Oliver

Jev
20th January 2009, 03:30 PM
Thanks !!!
Just one addition.
Taming of my Monkey Mind I always doing by breathing awareness.
I'm not pushing monkey and not requesting monkey be silent.
By breathing awareness I simply occupy my mind.
When I'm doing breathing awareness I always trying only feel breathing without thinking about it.
But sometime, wile doing it, I suddenly recognizing that I actually starting thinking about breathing, not just feeling. In a worst cases I'm trying even to push myself to breath. It is not happen often, but sometime. And that's make me little worry.

Korpo
20th January 2009, 04:00 PM
Well, I guess I meant something from the book "Astral Dynamics", not "Mastering Astral Projection"... I just remember this technique. *shrugs*


But sometime, wile doing it, I suddenly recognizing that I actually starting thinking about breathing, not just feeling. In a worst cases I'm trying even to push myself to breath. It is not happen often, but sometime. And that's make me little worry.

Can you describe this differently? I understand that sometimes there are thoughts about breath, and we notice them only "too late". That's normal. But what about "pushing to breathe"? What do you mean by that?

Oliver

Jev
20th January 2009, 04:30 PM
By "pushing to breathe" I mean some kind of unnatural breathing. So I'm making full control of it. For example I say myself "I will breath IN now" - and I do it now.

Jev
21st January 2009, 09:19 AM
Thank you very much all of you for your comments!!!
Sorry I was not able to response immediately as I was under Negs attack yesterday and was not able to think about anything ( see my message in Psychic Self Defense).
I think now I understand why frequency of my breathing awareness exercises is so high now. Point is in so incredibly nice feeling in a state immediately after such exercises. In this state of perfectly clear mind and monkey in silent, I feel like I able to do everything now, and able to easily concentrate on everything. Probably this state is very close to Gnosis.

Timotheus
21st January 2009, 09:33 PM
:D

Jev
22nd January 2009, 08:58 AM
Thanks Timotheus !!!
Your post is like nice poem.
I will think about it for some time.

Jev
23rd January 2009, 09:41 AM
Dear all,
sorry I again returned to this subject.

Reason is that I found that this subject is one of main key point for me.
And nice, perfect feeling is not actually most important reason.

Most important reason is that I found that I'm not able to do any Energy Work, OBE or healing without making my Monkey Mind silent first ( by occupying mind with breathing awareness ).

I will be very happy to hear from you your own personal experience with Monkey Mind.
How you are making Monkey silent? Or maybe you are not making it at all? How often you are making it?

Many thanks ,
Jev

CFTraveler
23rd January 2009, 01:55 PM
I don't make my MM. go silent. I simply allot it some time to chatter on, and then I'm done with it. When I'm ready to let it go, I observe the thoughts, and mentally 'do' something else. I wait until I'm in a trance to do this, and go from there.

ButterflyWoman
23rd January 2009, 02:18 PM
I've learned to treat my thoughts and worries and so forth as just random transmissions. Some of them are interesting, some are ridiculous, some are pointless babbling, some are meaningful, most have to do with day to day living like what I need to buy from the grocery store and what I'm going to make for dinner, etc., but they're just thoughts. I don't have to focus on them or tune in to them.

I have the television on in the background in my house a lot of the time (not by my choice; I prefer the quiet). I don't actually listen to it. If something interesting comes on, I might hear it and investigate what it is, but mostly, I just let the TV noise slide past.

I can usually do that with my thoughts, as well. But, like the television that I can't seem to persuade people to turn off (believe me, I try to get them to shut that bloody box up), my thoughts are always there. I just choose not to focus on them unless I need to (like when I'm in the grocery store getting those things I was thinking about needing), or I pick the thoughts that I do want to focus on, and just let the rest go by.

During meditation/trance, it's a lot easier to let them go, but I've been practicing for years. At one time it wasn't so easy. I use a combination of thinking about something distracting (such as counting backwards from a thousand) and just allowing thoughts to "have their say" and then releasing them, simply observing them as they go past. I also have a little "box" I built inside my mind where I put persistent thoughts that I can't quiet. I just put them in there and shut the lid, knowing that I can get them out later if they're important.

Not sure if that's what you're asking, but there you go.

Jev
26th January 2009, 12:10 PM
Thanks CFTraveler !!!
Actually I also don't make MM silent. MM just go silent automatically when I occupying mind with something else ( for example by breathing awareness ).
In fact I already do it very easy (one year practice). Sometime I even not doing breathing awareness, but simply just start energy work and it very quickly entirely occupy my mind by that.


I don't make my MM. go silent. I simply allot it some time to chatter on, and then I'm done with it. When I'm ready to let it go, I observe the thoughts, and mentally 'do' something else. I wait until I'm in a trance to do this, and go from there.

Jev
26th January 2009, 12:50 PM
Thanks OlderWiser !!!
That's exactly what I was asking.
It's so nice feeling to be in touch with such experienced person as you.

I also have this problem with TV noise in background.
But sometime this noise doing actually good job for me - it's occupying my mind, and as a result of it MM going silent automatically.




I've learned to treat my thoughts and worries and so forth as just random transmissions. Some of them are interesting, some are ridiculous, some are pointless babbling, some are meaningful, most have to do with day to day living like what I need to buy from the grocery store and what I'm going to make for dinner, etc., but they're just thoughts. I don't have to focus on them or tune in to them.

I have the television on in the background in my house a lot of the time (not by my choice; I prefer the quiet). I don't actually listen to it. If something interesting comes on, I might hear it and investigate what it is, but mostly, I just let the TV noise slide past.

I can usually do that with my thoughts, as well. But, like the television that I can't seem to persuade people to turn off (believe me, I try to get them to shut that bloody box up), my thoughts are always there. I just choose not to focus on them unless I need to (like when I'm in the grocery store getting those things I was thinking about needing), or I pick the thoughts that I do want to focus on, and just let the rest go by.

During meditation/trance, it's a lot easier to let them go, but I've been practicing for years. At one time it wasn't so easy. I use a combination of thinking about something distracting (such as counting backwards from a thousand) and just allowing thoughts to "have their say" and then releasing them, simply observing them as they go past. I also have a little "box" I built inside my mind where I put persistent thoughts that I can't quiet. I just put them in there and shut the lid, knowing that I can get them out later if they're important.

Not sure if that's what you're asking, but there you go.

Jev
26th January 2009, 01:29 PM
Dear Timotheus,
First of all very sorry for my terrible English.

Let me add few things.
First, with breathing awareness method I was introduced one year ago from Robert's excellent book Astral Dynamics ( chapter "Taming the Mind" ).
After that I'm practicing this method ( beside of other nice exercises from this book ) and have very good results with that.
Recently I bought another nice Robert's book "Energy Work" where was again described this method.
Most important point for me is that this method is really works for me! And result of exercises are going well.

This subject with MM I started mostly because I little bit worry about frequency of breathing awareness exercise and also because I was interesting about experience of other members of this forum.

Thanks
Jev

Jaco
26th January 2009, 01:39 PM
I have always found helpful to consciously relax your body when you experience a "thought river".
I noticed that in my case some of my muscles tend to tense up (especially face and shoulders). By consciously relaxing your muscles you focus on them and therefore you discipline your mind. You can keep concentrating on your body to keep the discipline. It is called body awareness.

Jev
26th January 2009, 04:13 PM
Thanks Jaco !!!
I'm also using this method - body awareness and found it almost such good as breathing awareness. So I'm using both methods.


I have always found helpful to consciously relax your body when you experience a "thought river".
I noticed that in my case some of my muscles tend to tense up (especially face and shoulders). By consciously relaxing your muscles you focus on them and therefore you discipline your mind. You can keep concentrating on your body to keep the discipline. It is called body awareness.

Timotheus
26th January 2009, 05:06 PM
:D

alwayson4
26th January 2009, 06:10 PM
There is no problem with monkey mind as long as you realize thoughts have no inherent essence. This includes the voice in your head and emotions as well.

Now in terms of astral projection, when you relax the body thoroughly, you change the energy currents in your body, so thoughts will naturally slow down if you let them.

Jev
28th January 2009, 09:46 AM
Many thanks !!!


There is no problem with monkey mind as long as you realize thoughts have no inherent essence. This includes the voice in your head and emotions as well.

Now in terms of astral projection, when you relax the body thoroughly, you change the energy currents in your body, so thoughts will naturally slow down if you let them.