Incredible Dream

I really need to get back into the habit of writing my dreams down. Unfortunately, I'm still letting minor fears get in the way of doing that (interesting how I can now see that fear-based reactions account for a majority of my laziness...lol).

In any case, this was awesome. The dream kind of fluctuated between two scenarios, which I think might have been me partially projecting from within the dream. It went from me hanging out with friends, to me speaking with a guide of some kind and receiving instruction...whoa, I just had a sudden memory of a dream that I don't remember when it occurred, if it was recent or not. My poor head, lol. In any case, I can't remember much of the instruction, but I DO remember asking questions that were totally relevant to my life, so I assume I had some kind of lucidity or presence of mind within the interaction with the guide, I just can't remember much of it. My alarm woke me mid-conversation with the guide >.< I'm not sure if it was my higher self, which leads me to assume it wasn't, but probably another benevolent being of some kind.

It was very very nice...not quite enough to tip me over the edge to where I want to be (no form of validation), but definitely a nice carrot saying I might be on the right track. If I remember correctly, I was being taught something about more advanced workings of magic.

Go looking for more experiences, not just validation. It's so single-minded, and might make your mind dismiss the good stuff.

My mind discards stuff and sometimes I notice it - labels it with "uninteresting", "not relevant" or whatever. And then I don't recall it! Just to think how many experiences get lost that way is ... unbearable.

So, don't narrow your sights down so early on. You might miss the big picture. You might miss a lot. Been down that road, so let me tell you right now: Your beliefs about what is important and what not shape your experience to a very strong degree.

(This service provided gratuitiously by the board of nagging reminders.)

Oliver

I shall try to keep that in mind. I guess it's hard for me not to seek my goal with a single mind; the way I'm looking at it is I want some validation before I "jump off the deep end" as it were. I may be limiting myself with what I consider validation, but I guess I see the best form of validation being an OBE in the RTZ where I can view something physically, and then verify in the waking state that I actually saw something accurately. Like for instance having someone put a random playing card face up in a high place, then accurately seeing what card it is while out of body. That of course is just an example...anything that I can verify in the waking state, that I couldn't have known otherwise, would do. (A prophetic dream would probably work as well...if I dreamed something, and then it actually happened, I'd consider that a validation.)

That doesn't mean I'm going to immediately reject anything other than a validation as unimportant...it just means that the degree of importance I place on experiences won't be as great until I know I'm not just deluding myself. ;)

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

That doesn't mean I'm going to immediately reject anything other than a validation as unimportant...it just means that the degree of importance I place on experiences won't be as great until I know I'm not just deluding myself. ;)

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So, how many experiences did you actually have that might be something but did not pass the validation requirement?

Oliver

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Originally Posted by Korpo

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

That doesn't mean I'm going to immediately reject anything other than a validation as unimportant...it just means that the degree of importance I place on experiences won't be as great until I know I'm not just deluding myself. ;)

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So, how many experiences did you actually have that might be something but did not pass the validation requirement?

Oliver

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There have been a few. The dream I just mentioned, and one other dream which I regard as very important (I reached a semi-lucid state in it). Also the shielding experience I mentioned in the "Emerald Crystal Shield" thread. The shielding experience was a validation of a type, and very encouraging, but it's a validation of a different thing - shielding works. I guess, really, my primary measuring stick for any experience is whether or not there's any practicality behind it. "How does this help me?" I'm very cautious and want validation when it comes to all things spiritual because I don't want to build a house out of cards. Many of my dreams, while entertaining and enjoyable, I can't really relate to or apply to my waking life. (At least, not in a way that I've been able to see.)

I guess I have a hard time expressing exactly the direction I'm coming from when it comes to my approach towards spirituality. =\

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

I guess, really, my primary measuring stick for any experience is whether or not there's any practicality behind it. "How does this help me?

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How can you be sure that you would know if this was the case right now? ;)

I mean, we can reverse the whole reasoning and get to the core - what are you really afraid of?

You're erecting artifical belief system barriers to exclude experiences that are not obviously "practical" or cannot be "validated". Whom does this help? Whom are you trying to satisfy? To whose standard does it have to measure up? Your parents? An authority? Science? Society?

You're taking this serious and because you're taking it serious you're giving yourself a hard time, demanding proof and everything. Why don't you just ease up and enjoy the ride, and don't expect any of it? Just write it down, have fun, play with it, see what comes of it. Big metaphysical expectation or demands can be blocking.

I've been at it since 2005 and no validation in that special sense. Got no badge, not even a t-shirt! All I got was observable change within myself and of my life. If nothing else came from it, would it have been for naught? I don't think so.

And I surely got into my own way by demanding that it has to be like this or that, or only that is interesting. The less I do this, the more experiences I have, the richer they get. Opening up to spirit to me also means acknowledging that I'm not running the show alone, and cannot be in control all the time. Given my ways, that was already a big admission for me (and is ongoing ;) ). The good thing that is a given IMO is that spirit is interested in advancing and furthering each and everyone of us. I can only "win" with taking this "risk". :)

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

Many of my dreams, while entertaining and enjoyable, I can't really relate to or apply to my waking life. (At least, not in a way that I've been able to see.)

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Sounds like you need to get started into dream interpretation. Many dreams are messages, but if you do not make an effort to interpret them you will never learn the skill.

It's like saying "I can't relate to these Nepalese people. Nothing they say seems to apply to my life. It's total gibberish!" ;)

Oliver

You've got some good points there.

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I mean, we can reverse the whole reasoning and get to the core - what are you really afraid of?

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Being deceived into trusting something that isn't real and doesn't work. When I put my faith in Christianity, it failed me in a huge way, and caused a lot of emotional damage. I don't want the same thing to happen again.

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You're erecting artifical belief system barriers to exclude experiences that are not obviously "practical" or cannot be "validated". Whom does this help? Whom are you trying to satisfy? To whose standard does it have to measure up? Your parents? An authority? Science? Society?

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I don't think I'm intentionally excluding experiences...I'm just not basing any beliefs on them until I can be sure they won't collapse under pressure. See, I'm not necessarily seeking validation for each individual experience...I'm seeking validation for the idea that there's something beyond my physical self that can be trusted. Something that won't disappear when I need it most. Something that works.

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You're taking this serious and because you're taking it serious you're giving yourself a hard time, demanding proof and everything. Why don't you just ease up and enjoy the ride, and don't expect any of it? Just write it down, have fun, play with it, see what comes of it. Big metaphysical expectation or demands can be blocking.

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I guess easing up is kind of foreign to my experience. I'm not really sure HOW to ease up...that may sound strange, but it's true.

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I've been at it since 2005 and no validation in that special sense. Got no badge, not even a t-shirt! All I got was observable change within myself and of my life. If nothing else came from it, would it have been for naught? I don't think so.

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To me, an observable change of self and life would be a pretty good validation. That means it worked. That's results.

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And I surely got into my own way by demanding that it has to be like this or that, or only that is interesting. The less I do this, the more experiences I have, the richer they get. Opening up to spirit to me also means acknowledging that I'm not running the show alone, and cannot be in control all the time. Given my ways, that was already a big admission for me (and is ongoing ;) ). The good thing that is a given IMO is that spirit is interested in advancing and furthering each and everyone of us. I can only "win" with taking this "risk".

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This is where perhaps my trust issues are blocking me. As far as I know, I AM running the show alone. And if something else is running the show, I can't be sure it has my best interests in mind. I guess in a sense I have a kind of victim mentality when it comes to spirit. I've been beaten before, how can I be sure that hand reaching for me isn't gonna hit me too? Or perhaps beaten is the wrong context to frame it..."abandoned" might be better. This is why I have so many "tests" that any form of spirituality has to pass before I accept it. I have to know it'll be there when I need it.

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Sounds like you need to get started into dream interpretation. Many dreams are messages, but if you do not make an effort to interpret them you will never learn the skill.

It's like saying "I can't relate to these Nepalese people. Nothing they say seems to apply to my life. It's total gibberish!" ;)

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You're 100% right there. I guess I've sort of been scared of trying it, because symbols are so subjective and a single symbol could mean ten different things to me. How do I know which one is right? Of course, that's a somewhat lame excuse...I haven't done much research on dream interpretation, so I don't have the most solid of foundations to base my prejudices on.

Man, you really helped open some tightly sealed doors. I almost cried typing some of my responses out, which means there's still a huge emotional charge/blockage I haven't released concerning my past. Honestly answering the questions bared those wide.

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

Being deceived into trusting something that isn't real and doesn't work. When I put my faith in Christianity, it failed me in a huge way, and caused a lot of emotional damage. I don't want the same thing to happen again.

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Well, don't rely on it. I can see how you don't want to base your life on this, but IMO the good news is you don't have to. You can just watch the show, try to see where it leads you, the decision is yours. Nobody can make you - it's always your choice.

I can see now where you're coming from a bit better. Do you think you need something to believe in? Is that why you cannot take it more easy - take it as it comes?

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

I don't think I'm intentionally excluding experiences...I'm just not basing any beliefs on them until I can be sure they won't collapse under pressure. See, I'm not necessarily seeking validation for each individual experience...I'm seeking validation for the idea that there's something beyond my physical self that can be trusted. Something that won't disappear when I need it most. Something that works.

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Fair enough. But what would be validation, actually? How can you actually verify that the guidance you receive by any means is trustworthy? I don't think a RTZ OBE proves that. It just proves that you can function outside a body in a way similar to and in some relation to the physical world. Would it really prove what you need to know, or is it your first step - how do you see it?

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

I guess easing up is kind of foreign to my experience. I'm not really sure HOW to ease up...that may sound strange, but it's true.

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Believe me, it does not sound strange to me - at all! Same problem, I'm along for the long haul there, too.

But I know you have a sense of humour - use it, young Jedi! ;)

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

To me, an observable change of self and life would be a pretty good validation. That means it worked. That's results.

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Well, then better check yourself, how you feel, where you were two years ago, etc., in regular intervals - that's what did it for me. That's my validation, whenever I feel down. :)

(I would not mind an RTZ OBE either. ;) )

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

This is where perhaps my trust issues are blocking me. As far as I know, I AM running the show alone. And if something else is running the show, I can't be sure it has my best interests in mind. I guess in a sense I have a kind of victim mentality when it comes to spirit.

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Never forget - spirit is you at another level of existence. Many terminologies try to build a difference where there is none of the kind the terms imply. Trust in spirit (not spirits) is trusting yourself, your innermost self, the higher levels of being.

What brought me forward there was embracing the assumption, the unproven belief, that man is inherently good - if only deep inside. I believe that when I dig deep enough, I will hit gold. This belief has been validated, but it was in a certain sense a risk also. Many people are deeply afraid they are inherently flawed, and indeed Christianity (the religion, not the original teachings of Jesus) has contributed a great deal to this belief.

Spirit does not run the show for you. You are an extension of spirit, and you can call on spirit to master your own show. You can accept its wisdom in your life, and its capabilities. It's not forcing its ways unto you. It might nudge "a bit", though, with stubborn people like me. ;)

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

I've been beaten before, how can I be sure that hand reaching for me isn't gonna hit me too? Or perhaps beaten is the wrong context to frame it..."abandoned" might be better. This is why I have so many "tests" that any form of spirituality has to pass before I accept it. I have to know it'll be there when I need it.

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But you're still a seeker. What makes you persist? If you answer this question to yourself, or dig for the answer, it might tell you a lot about who you actually are. And what you are really looking for.

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

I guess I've sort of been scared of trying it, because symbols are so subjective and a single symbol could mean ten different things to me. How do I know which one is right?

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Plain ole gut feeling, luck, experiment, joy of playing a game. There's no punishment for getting it wrong, so there's no harm in trying on and on again, right? Learning a skill always means practising and making errors. The more you try the more you will develop an intuition of what seems right and what not.

How about a little trick: Pretend it is like a computer game. Where you can always start over, where you always can Reset and give it another go, and nothing more is at stake than investing some time.

(Scrap that if you cannot take computer games easy. ;) )

The wonderful thing about symbols in dreams and experiences that they can yield multiple things and they all might have been intended. So that's "a feature, not a bug". ;)

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

Of course, that's a somewhat lame excuse...I haven't done much research on dream interpretation, so I don't have the most solid of foundations to base my prejudices on.

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I would link you to an easy, but powerful guide to dream interpretation, but the site is down. :(

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

Man, you really helped open some tightly sealed doors. I almost cried typing some of my responses out, which means there's still a huge emotional charge/blockage I haven't released concerning my past. Honestly answering the questions bared those wide.

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Well, right on. :D

Oliver

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Originally Posted by Korpo

I can see now where you're coming from a bit better. Do you think you need something to believe in? Is that why you cannot take it more easy - take it as it comes?

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Possibly. I think this ties in to another question you ask further down, so I'll address it there.

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Originally Posted by Korpo

Fair enough. But what would be validation, actually? How can you actually verify that the guidance you receive by any means is trustworthy? I don't think a RTZ OBE proves that. It just proves that you can function outside a body in a way similar to and in some relation to the physical world. Would it really prove what you need to know, or is it your first step - how do you see it?

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Both a first step and a proof.

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Originally Posted by Korpo

But you're still a seeker. What makes you persist? If you answer this question to yourself, or dig for the answer, it might tell you a lot about who you actually are. And what you are really looking for.

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Why do I persist? Because at the end of the day, I just can't see flesh and blood, the material world, being the totality of existence. There has to be something more, and I want to know what that something more is.

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Originally Posted by Korpo

How about a little trick: Pretend it is like a computer game. Where you can always start over, where you always can Reset and give it another go, and nothing more is at stake than investing some time.

(Scrap that if you cannot take computer games easy. ;) )

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That's an interesting way to look at it. I can't really find anything wrong with that approach, so sure, why not? :P

It's a shame that site is down. Any good books you'd recommend?

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

Why do I persist? Because at the end of the day, I just can't see flesh and blood, the material world, being the totality of existence. There has to be something more, and I want to know what that something more is.

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Don't panic, but this is your intuition speaking. ;) That's what I've always felt. :)

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

It's a shame that site is down. Any good books you'd recommend?

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Not yet. But I might be onto something. I'll let you know. :D

Take care,
Oliver