Manifest destiny

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Originally Posted by baalixan

collapsing them is simple really. believe it has already collapsed in a certain way. see it in you mind as current or past before it happens and will it into manifestation

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While I appreciate what you're saying, and I don't disagree, it's quite a lot easier said than done for most people.

For a lot of people, there is a considerable amount of groundwork necessary, including getting rid of limiting and blocking beliefs and other emotional baggage that directly conflicts with the manifestation of what they want. If you want to be thin, but you believe completely that you're fat and are meant to be that way, it's pretty hard to manifest thinness. Same with any desire. You want love, but believe you're unlovable, you want money but believe it's too hard to get or too hard to keep, and on and on and on. It's only when these underlying beliefs (which create resistance) are dissolved that things can manifest.

simple does not mean easy. it takes effort no matter how much baggage you have, even if you have none. it takes patience. and to be 100% confident in something that has yet to come is not easy. doubt will hinder it, and delay the effects, but affirmations and overtime adding little bits of will towards the goal will bring it about.

there is a book, and documentary called "The Secret" which is all about this, and how some of the most famous people of science, politics, etc used the ideas to garner their success....i have used it for small things, like making a day at work go smoothly and basicly be a good day and it often works....positive thinking, you believe it if you do it enough...same thing with negative thinking

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Originally Posted by baalixan

there is a book, and documentary called "The Secret" which is all about this

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Yes, I'm familiar with it, have been for years, and many, many other books and other material on the topic (including things going back to the turn of the 20th century; this is not a new idea).

I personally find "The Secret" to be quite shallow and quite overproduced (the woman who produced it was a tv producer, and she's known for her heavy-handedness). About the only thing that can be said for it is that it brought attention to possibilities that most people had never even thought about. Sorry to be harsh on the topic, I mean, if it works for you, that's fine, but for me (and others) it barely scratches the surface.

i have to agree that it does seem shallow in a way...i think really, it is meant to bring to light that such things are possible, more than getting someone to be well versed in willful creation and direction. i've always thought mindfulness and positive thinking were about as far as you can go towards making your physical experience better in that sense. I've always been a 'just deal with what life throws at you the best you can' sort of guy, and it helped me realize that there is much much more to it than that. I have been trying to expand my uses the idea in many ways, aswell as incorporating it into my meditations to deepen the effect, and even improve the quality and depth of my meditation itself(preparing through out the day well before i get to my meditation)

you don't have to appologize for any harshness, you are simply being honest and straight forward. no harshness about it in my eyes haha.

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Originally Posted by ButterflyWoman

For a lot of people, there is a considerable amount of groundwork necessary, including getting rid of limiting and blocking beliefs and other emotional baggage that directly conflicts with the manifestation of what they want. If you want to be thin, but you believe completely that you're fat and are meant to be that way, it's pretty hard to manifest thinness. Same with any desire. You want love, but believe you're unlovable, you want money but believe it's too hard to get or too hard to keep, and on and on and on. It's only when these underlying beliefs (which create resistance) are dissolved that things can manifest.

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I agree that strongly held blocking beliefs such as `I am meant to be fat and will always be` have to go first... But some limiting (not blocking) beliefs can be countered by visualising the change happening gradually. The mind is likely to block any manifestation attempts of what it judges unrealistic, so visualising oneself suddenly thin when the mind is sharply aware of not being thin may not work indeed. It will seem like a lie to it. But the mind is much more likely to accept the idea that such a change can occur over time. So manifesting a gradual change is more likely to work in this specific case. Someone who wants to lose weight can, for instance, visualises and feels himself or herself becoming thinner in a gradual fashion. The passing of time has to be lived and felt as if it is currently happening. Imagining (and living) specific moments may help in this. For instance, a woman imagines herself buying new clothes now that she is thinner and how content she feels as she looks at herself in the mirror. She lives the moment as if it was happening now. She can go on and on imagining all kinds of satisfying moments like this one occuring as she is becoming thinner and thinner.

The same would work for any desired outcome that is more likely to happen gradually according to the mind. However, although the mind can hardly accept affirmations such as `I am thin now`and is likely to discard them as lies, it is not exactly a lie… The thought comes first, the visible change comes only after. It is delayed because the physical matter is coarser, but at some level, if the thought is free of blockages, if it is sustained and nurtured, and if it doesn't conflict with other's needs and intentions (it's a consensual world after all), then the change is already occuring and preparing to manifest in the physical.

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Originally Posted by baalixan

collapsing them is simple really. believe it has already collapsed in a certain way. see it in you mind as current or past before it happens and will it into manifestation

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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...tepThreeProfit

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Originally Posted by lycan

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...tepThreeProfit

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i'm not quite clear on what you mean in this link...it seems like you are agreeing with my statement, but i'm not sure if i am understanding correctly

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Originally Posted by baalixan

i'm not quite clear on what you mean in this link...it seems like you are agreeing with my statement, but i'm not sure if i am understanding correctly

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There are two meanings. The manifestation process seems to be the standard plan:

Step 1 - Believe it
Step 2 - ?
Step 3 - Profit!

That in itself is kind of funny.

However, there is this problem...

Step 1 - Decide to believe it
Step 2 - ?
Step 3 - Win!

Believing in something which your experience contradicts is not an easy task. How do you make the shift from not believing to believing?

It depends on why you don't believe it. If you don't believe it because it's not possible (undoubtedly) then it's a moot point; but if you don't believe it based on programming based on things that are probably not true, then this can be worked on and set aside, and then it becomes possible, resonates with your inner sense of knowing, and it's a done deal.

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Originally Posted by CFTraveler

It depends on why you don't believe it. If you don't believe it because it's not possible (undoubtedly) then it's a moot point; but if you don't believe it based on programming based on things that are probably not true,

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And how do you tell the difference? How do you tell the difference between trying to believe something that is impossible (futile self-deception) and trying to believe something that is possible? Especially since a negative belief that is "probably not true" might be true after all?

The main reason, in fact the ONLY reason people have trouble "changing their beliefs" is that this seems, inherently, as a futile attempt at self-deception. The deeper and more persistantly reinforced by experience the belief the more futile it seems to attempt to change it.

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then this can be worked on and set aside, and then it becomes possible, resonates with your inner sense of knowing, and it's a done deal.

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How?