Plus mitochondrial DNA is not recombinant, so all females have approximately the same mitochondrial DNA of their earliest female ancestor, plus a few mutations.
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Plus mitochondrial DNA is not recombinant, so all females have approximately the same mitochondrial DNA of their earliest female ancestor, plus a few mutations.
h. wrote:I disagree. Just because someone else put the ability to think in us it doesn't mean that our thoughts are preconceived; it just means that the ability to think was engineered to be a certain way.Quote:
also, another disturbing fact kicks in here... if we were created and are observed by the higher beings, then all our possible thoughts and ideas must have been pre-programmed, or at least the program that would generate them must have been put there by someone else, who already thought of everything, so we are not "discovering" or "coming up" with anything, just trying to keep up with our creators...
It's like something out of a children's book that I really like:
(one dog telling another one about humans):
"Humans are complicated, Moxie. I told you they are a mystery. But here are a few things that I know. Humans are clever. They can see very well, and they can put things together to make new things. They change the world everywhere they go. This is why we dogs call them masters. But it is obvious that their smell sense is very weak, and the way they think and communicate is limited too- to barking, mainly. For example, sometimes humans think by barking out loud. But I was told that often humans think by barking in their minds. The inside of a human's mind must be a very noisy place."
"I like barking." Moxie said. (the puppy)"So do most dogs," said Sage. "But dogs are more complete animals than humans are. sure, we dogs can bark with our mouths, and we can growl. But we dont speak or think in just a mouth-way. we speak and think withou our bodies, with our eyes, and with our tails. but we mainly think and speak in smells.
-Excerpted from "The Boy who spoke Dog" by Clay Morgan.
I think our DNA is manifested in real time by our higher self awareness, it is part of the process of our base level awareness manifesting reality. What I mean to say is, that DNA if anything is inherent to the manifestation of living organic beings from pure awareness, that it is an elegant, real-time expression of both our current form and function, and also possibly of the higher knowledge/language/experience of our higher selves added in there to boot.
As we come closer to integrating our base consciousness with our higher selves, this dormant DNA may manifest in real time and become active. It would be the equivalent of evolution, but it happens as a chain reaction of awareness evolving, then DNA, then the biological representation of that awareness.
This could also explain how in evolution, there seems to be great gaps, instead of small linear changes or gradual progress, we may become enlightened to some degree, and manifest our DNA in real time to reflect this. This manifestation of more active DNA may be what activates our otherwise dormant psychic abilities.
This is just me rambling conjecture, I have not read the book, but I wouldn't be surprised if the book contains a similar theory. What I think makes my understanding unique or different from that in the book that's being quoted, is that I believe our physical, biological self is a real-time manifestation of our awareness. We exist as awareness, the fundamental energy, that can manifest matter, which we manifest into a real time representation of DNA, which in turn reflects our awareness in the form of a biological life form representation.
I am not so sure about DNA being the most efficient/compact molecule we manifest however, Mitochondria are incredibly efficient at producing energy (and might easily be considered life forms in of themselves ), and ribosomes are incredibly small efficient molecules that are responsible for taking RNA and producing more DNA. It's been some time since my biology courses, and I have yet to verify this cellular activity myself. I have read shamanistic ayahuasca trip reports of people taking the brew, and healing themselves by rearranging their own DNA. These reports further support our ability to manipulate our DNA in real time, even if sometimes at an unconscious level, and may explain the chain of how self healing works.. energy -> DNA -> biological healing.
*Is happy that it has found the time to catch up on this thread* :D
I find it very exciting, those frequently occurring numbers and constants, that do not only exist anywhere and everywhere, they may also be used to describe everything and anything. Even though I am a fan of words and a lover of languages, I have always felt that numbers, or Math actually, is the perfect tool for engineering, discovering and programming... When I have deep moments of insight, I actually feel like a computer program connecting to the matrix-like master program that is the Universe... No jokes! :)
CFT: That Dog story was so cute and still very insightful, I will totally read it to my future kids. Thank you.
True, but in that case it feels as if mankind is just a tool for another superior species, a lab rat if you'd like. But I try and see it in a more positive manner, what a great honor to gather information and help my Creator/s with coming to terms with, well, everything...Quote:
Originally Posted by CFTraveler
I have always seen the female sex as far superior to us guys, ok, the two sexes balance out each other in the end, but I still feel better when hanging out with ladies than with burping, smelling, sweaty "men". :D I wish the world was ruled by a Matriarch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leyla
Nope I did not! Again I am not promoting illegal drugs, just pointing out that there are many sources that claim that prior to Siddharta having his Enlightenment, he lived solely on the cannabis plant, eating seeds etc. And we know what happened to him :) I think the trace of the stardust DNA can be found in every living organism in this world, everything that has a nerveous system generates Psi-energy = aura = accessible information. Could it be so that the creations use each other's different DNA and molecules in order to work together for a common goal?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beekeeper
Ruling out that "aliens" and "angels" and all those superior beings have had a very active role in the evolution of homo sapiens sapiens and her civilizations (which I believe they have), shouldn't everything be mapped out and included in the code? Adaptability, reactions based on signals such as different leaps in technology and other developement etc... Point being - if it's all planned out - what's the purpose of it all? Surely the wonderful people with this advanced technology, should have very high causes and goals. I feel that colonializing space seems like a very "simple" goal.
ps. I read a couple of years ago that scientists decided on a way to measure a civilizations developement, in the theroy they had somehow "calculated" how advanced the different alien civilizations out there in space should be, this ended up in a three level scale, 1, 2 and 3. According to the same group of scientists, our civilization hasn't even reached level 1... :) ds.
ps2. may be considered totally off-topic, but in a way not at all; Are there any other Battlestar Galactica fans out there? The whole philosophy between the Cylons created by humans, the 13 colonies (taurus, sagittarus etc... Earth) and all the other thoughts seem very non-fictional somehow, and a lot of thoughts and ideas that arose from watching the series, are very similar to those that came from reading this thread. Just checking. ds2.
About Francis Crick: (Hold on to your pantaloons, kids):
Look up Rosalind Franklin and see what it says about her (this is your homework). I will only quote I thing:
"the two men (Watson and Crick) visited Franklin's lab when she was out of town and persuaded to let her boss to let them take a peek at her data. ... They stole Franklin's findings and got away clean, tossing her a bone of achnowledgement in their seminal paper, which won them the biggest award in science. In his best selling book, Watson actually boasts about the theft, deriding their colleague for witholding her findings for publication in her own paper, which came out in the same journal-Nature-where theirs had appeared just a few months later. At the time, no reviewer... cried foul, although in later years some heroic attempts at correcting the record were made." How do you like them apples?
-Candace Pert, 1997- who had a hard time getting acknowledged for discovering endorphins, and was denied the Nobel prize for being a woman and/or PhD.
(My italics)
:cry:
Makes me think of the rumors that Einstein worked very hard to hide the fact that his wife helped him a lot with his work, also that T.A. Edison only got the patent for the light-bulb because he beat his female opponant to the patent-place. Or was it Bell with the Phone? Bleh 1am, where's the clarity?
I thought Edison beat Tesla to the patent? I thought it had to do with charisma in his case, if I remember correctly. I do know that when Mme. Curie discovered Radium, they wanted to give Henri the credit but he was bigger than the establishment, and she got the deserved credit.
Again, a couple of primitive primates walk up to something in the nature they see and go "hey, that's my tree, I discovered it, and it will bare my name for eternity", the other one goes "hey no way, I saw it first" and a dispute arises and they fight all day long, and the tree is just standing there, silent, eternal... 8)
anyhow back to topic... Beekeeper, I'm craving for more wisdom! :)
Sorry Hasalameth, I sat down to write it but somehow it didn't happen. Feeling a little down today. Having one of those existential crisises we all have every now and then. Find it hard to manifest anything much when I get this way. Usually bounce back quickly though :wink:
Awww I hope you get better! :( But remember, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Cause and effect ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Beekeeper
Maybe this is a sign I should get my lazy ass going and buy the book myself instead of freeloading off of your time and effort :lol:
Thank you Beekeeper for doing this review. Your writing is quite good and you put your quotes into context very well.
Existential crisises are not usually fun, so I hope you find the answer to yours.
The reasons, not just ones, but reasons non the less, for Franklin's relative obscurity are some what more complicated than Dr. Pert suggests. I reffer you to this wonderfully complete and even handed article in Physics Today: http://www.aip.org/pt/vol-56/iss-3/p42.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by CFTraveler
Professional academia as a field is not known for its friendliness or for producing anything of worth without controversy over who's idea it was. It seems that in this particular case misogyny took a back seat to clashing personalities and oportunism.
Thanks for your wonderful piece of information. To be fair Dr. Pert wasn't only talking about misogyny in these cases, but the M.D. vs. Ph.D. struggle in scientific research also, and the 'old boy' network and politics. One of the things that got her in trouble was her outspoken ways (to put it gently). I just used the above quote to illustrate how two respected academicians can brag about doing what they did, and get away with it.
Politics!
I suspect I read too much into her statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFTraveler
That was my fault. I put the stress into part of the argument.
I'm semi-back now, and I instantly leaped to this thread, since I just love it :)
Beekeeper, I hope you're feeling better, and that you'll share more info with us, it's really appreciated. Thanks...
Gosh, yes I'm better! There's not much more to go but I just can't make it a priority right now. I'm still reading the forums so I don't lose touch but long posts will be on hold for the next few weeks. I will finish it, so watch this space (but wait a few weeks :wink:)
Thanks Beekeeper for writing about this book. Sounds very interesting. I just ordered it.
You're welcome, Cookie. :D
Btw, yesterday we were watching a History channel documentary named "Ancient Aliens" and guess who was there? Graham Hancok...
So Cooks, what did he have to say? :D
He states that somewhere along the way humans have lost memory of a big part of human history (amnesia) since there are so many clues in our ancient history about aliens, such as the pyramids where some of them we have no clue exactly when it was built, with their amazing accurate architectural technology. He also gives an example about some spectacular monuments built in a great altitude in Bolivia, where no way this could have been done only by humans.
I really recommend this documentary. So interesting.
Cool guys, I'll definitely check it out. :D
Just wanted to say that thanks to this topic I purchased the book and can't stop reading it. Excellent book. He explains his theories in such a convincing and interesting way.
Thanks Beekeeper.
Okay, this one's dedicated to Cooks, who doesn't need to read it because he/she bought the book! :lol:
Hancock makes the point that the original supernatural experiences at the base of mainstream religions are in the distant past and that today’s salaried priests, rabbis and mullahs present themselves not just as administrators but as “true and exclusive intermediaries between humanity and otherworldly powers.†Thus, they never present us with any new supernatural experiences of their own.
He believes rot sets in when cultures devalue shamans and place spiritual trust in a sacerdotal class that can only teach what it has been taught but not what it has experienced. He identifies Christ as shaman,
It is not only his pedigree as half human, half-divine hybrid that makes him so, or his heaven-sent gifts as healer. His ordeal of crucifixion and piercing followed by death and subsequent resurrection as a spiritualised being equipped with the power to save souls is essentially the story of the wounded man – the story that is told by all shamans everywhere of their own initiatory agonies, death and resurrection. P604
[I struggle a bit with the last part of this as I tend to accept the accounts of Christ’s death are literal, though I am aware of writings that argue otherwise.]
Hancock discusses the early Christian Gnostics, who believed in knowledge through direct experience and that reality could only be experienced in a visionary state. (Apparently the Jivaro of Ecuador shared the belief that the everyday life was illusion and that reality could be accessed through trance experiences). There is evidence that Gnostic Christian groups practised austerities and possibly consumed psychotropic mushrooms. Their views of reality were actively repressed from the 4th century.
Vestiges of the shamanistic origins of Christianity can be found in the symbolism around Santa Claus and in the cult of saints. For instance, St Christophoros is often portrayed as a therianthrope with the body of a man and the head of a dog. Saint Sebastian, pierced by multiple Roman arrows, is also recognisable as the wounded man (again, I have trouble with this association, as Sebastian’s wounds were not received in a shamanic trance but were literal wounds. Am I missing something here?) He continues to describe saints Ursula, Justina and Stanislaus who were similarly hacked or pierced. St Theresa of Avila is more convincing as she had an angelic piercing through the heart in trance state.
The first question asked Jeanne d’Arc when she was interrogated by the Inquisition was if she knew anything of those who went to Sabbath with the fairies or had assisted at the assembly at the fountain of the fairies near Domremy, around which danced malignant spirits. She admitted she visited the Tree of the Mistress, or the Tree of the Fairies, nearby which was a spring with healing water.
Dianne Purkiss, an English don at Oxford University, reports that the Inquisition often mixed the terms for fairies- “white ladies,†“good ladies†and “Our Lady.†This was still the case hundreds of years later with Bernadette Soubirous at the Shrine of Lourdes.
The fountain of Lourdes had a reputation of miraculous healing and was associated with fairies long before the Virgin apparently appeared to Bernadette. Interestingly, Bernadette referred to the lady in the apparitions as uno petito damizela, a little lady. She reputedly carried a rosary, though Hancock dismisses this as expedient. She wore white, another association with the “white ladies,†and instructed Bernadette to eat a certain herb. Hancock finds himself questioning if, in fact, she was instructed to consume a certain mushroom. He also points out that Lourdes stands near the geographical centre where the greatest number of painted caves dating from the Upper Palaeolithic have been found.
Bernadette reportedly fell into trances when encountering “Our Lady.â€Â
As explanation for mass witnessing of spiritual phenomenon, Hancock provides a theory by Michael Persinger, head of the Neuroscience Lab at Laurentian University, Ontario. “His work has shown that certain, almost imperceptible electromagnetic fields, often associated with earth quakes and other seismic events, seem to interact with the human brain in such a way as to trigger temporarily altered states of consciousness every bit as deep and every bit as ‘hallucinatory’ as those induced by drugs like DMT, psilocybin and LSD. These effects are especially pronounced in the case of individuals with unusually excitable temporal lobes. †p616 He has proven this to be so under laboratory conditions.
After an appearance of the Virgin Mary in 1879 the village of Knock in County Mayo, Ireland, Christians flocked to the field where it happened. A large globe with golden light appeared to three men, six women and two children. Within the globe three glowing humans were seen, two men and a woman. One man held a book open. The woman wore white and was described as “strikingly white.â€Â
Hancock similarly attributes the Marian apparitions at Fatima to the same experiences of shamans elsewhere. He notes that the children experienced visitations by other beings that they construed as angels, in the two years prior to the experience at Fatima. An angel, whiter than driven snow, appeared to them amidst a strong wind that shook the trees, as is sometimes reported in UFO sitings. The Marian apparitions subsequently experienced, occurred near a sacred spot called Cova da Iris (the Cave of St Irene). A blinding flash of light drew the children to a hovering light above a tree in the midst of which they saw “a little woman†who instructed them to return once a month. Eventually, others experienced phenomena such as buzzing, loud bangs and hovering clouds and changing colours and a globe in the sky, while the enraptured children conversed with invisible spiritual beings. Two Jesuits who had been sent to debunk the children, included the globe witnessed by all, a white cloud and petals falling from the sky (entopic dots?) in their report. On another occasion, witnesses saw a multicoloured disk in the sky that plunged down and then up towards the sun. A witness with binoculars said he saw a ladder with two entities emerging from it. At both Knock and Fatima, hundreds reported cures for their life-threatening illnesses.
Years ago, when Persinger's experiments were featured in various articles, I asked myself- if certain frequencies excite the temporal lobe to create the selfsame phenomenon in those who experience it, my question is, who put the recording in our brains in the first place?
Kind of like finding a hidden message encoded in our brain structure. I frankly don't think the phenomenon is accidental organic happenstance. JMO. :lol:
And is it always the same "recording" from mass event to mass event or is it in fact the perceiving of a co-existing reality that isn't normally available to perception?
I finally finished the book this week. All I can say is WOW... Mind expanding...
Consequently I bouhgt the book "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" by Rick Strassman.
We look forward to the review then :wink: (Umm, and don't mention that I'm not quite done yet here).
I just got this at the library yesterday. Can't wait to start it. :D
Thanks for all the info Beekeeper.
You're most welcome, Mishell. :D
Hmmm hmmmm... Beekeeper, after reading your super professional review, I'm afraid I won't meet the "standards".
But I will do my best...
There is a state of mind involving Alpha state of the brain & a certain physical action that places the mind into a 'learning' state - the reaction almost bypasses the conscious all together to allow 'programming' to occur.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFTraveler
Like the frequencies mentioned, one has to wonder just why the human mind would have developed such a trait or ability. There would appear to be no evolutionary reason or imperative for it to develop.
What I like about Graham Hancock is his depth. Just when you think you've got his message on a subject & are wondering why there is still so much book left, he brings in something that alters the whole perspective of his subject.
I was in that state of mind about the hallucinogen history, the consciousness issue, the commonality of the various myths & experiences in altered states when suddenly we're looking at philological tests being applied to junk DNA.
Now THAT is a fascinating dataset. DNA has long been a puzzle, one that creationists didn't seem to really make use of (maybe it was too scientific for them to get how unlikely it was?) but to have the non-coding sections responding to language tests is a bit mind-blowing.
That was my absolute favourite bit, Jman.Quote:
...but to have the non-coding sections responding to language tests is a bit mind-blowing.
It's an interesting point. (interesting being as much an understatement as it's nice to have air :lol:)
DNA is a puzzle because of how it works - most people think it's the brains of a cell but it's really just a factory that responds to instructions. While it might be theoretically feasible for the bases to form & to then produce proteins, nobody seems to have found the mechanism that makes it all happen - any attempt to track down the physical causes leads down a regression path.
There's also been the puzzle of all the extra bases in virtually every genome - nature uses evolution to meet outside environmental imperatives, but it is about as parsimonious as a banker finding out he's loaning his own money - to have all that extra genome is against the rules for evolution.
(note: I am not trying to start an evolution/creation debate here - evolution has nothing to do with initial creation - that's a furphy thrown up by those who don't understand how things work - evolution doesn't exist until there is a goal seeking mechanism to employ it ie. Life; Creation is about where the Life came from)
Having the so-called 'junk' bases follow the rules of language opens the field way wider than just the development of DNA - not only is there an apparent need for a creative moment, that creation has to be from a high order of development.
I haven't gotten very far into the part about the genome-language yet but there is one immediate problem I see; this couldn't have been a one-off implant of the genome into Earth's ecosystem. The original life on Earth was very simple & had distinctly limited genomes - for the end product of all this to have a much larger genome that still obeys the rules of structured language either the entire development has to be planned ahead in minute detail or else there has to have been ongoing development work done as evolution worked its way up the ladder of complexity.
I think the first is unlikely - being able to predict & control the development of such a complex system from a single point of origin is a MUCH higher level of complexity than the initial development of DNA itself - monitoring progress with on-going modification & additions would be a far simpler task.
Just my thoughts so far...
Begging the question how exactly that would be done.Quote:
...monitoring progress with on-going modification & additions would be a far simpler task.
Yes... interesting proposition isn't it? Just how would one go about monitoring & modifying such a system?
For some time there has been a theory, with some evidence, of 'punctuated equilibrium'
From Principia CyberneticaQuote:
The "punctuated equilibrium" theory of Niles Eldredge and Stephen Jay Gould was proposed as a criticism of the traditional Darwinian theory of evolution. Eldredge and Gould observed that evolution tends to happen in fits and starts, sometimes moving very fast, sometimes moving very slowly or not at all. On the other hand, typical variations tend to be small. Therefore, Darwin saw evolution as a slow, continuous process, without sudden jumps. However, if you study the fossils of organisms found in subsequent geological layers, you will see long intervals in which nothing changed ("equilibrium"), "punctuated" by short, revolutionary transitions, in which species became extinct and replaced by wholly new forms. Instead of a slow, continous progression, the evolution of life on Earth seems more like the life of a soldier: long periods of boredom interrupted by rare moments of terror.
Now 'what if...?'
Given a sentient with the ability to create DNA in all its fantastic complexity, one would think they'd have a mechanism for making unobtrusive ongoing changes, & we could easily have the evidence of their machinations in the sudden changes to things - a new DNA complex causing sudden leaps in the life forms extant at the time.
Maybe we finally know the purpose of the 'greys' with their weird experiments on abductees?
If this is so, the changes to the DNA aren't showing up in the next generation of human children, well not in an obvious way. This is, when you consider how long they've been interfering/intervening (if we're to run with the suggestions Hancock makes in his book). It's possible they haven't gotten the next big change right yet or that it's simply not conspicuous.Quote:
Maybe we finally know the purpose of the 'greys' with their weird experiments on abductees?
Ah, but the UFO-abductees don't tell of being changed, they tell of being probed, measured & poked - that smacks more of the evaluation phase than an active change time.
Apparently the next 'punctuation is set for 12 after 20... :lol:
But more seriously...
It makes sense that DNA would be created with potential but not certainty - unless it was specific to a planet & to a plan, the uncertainties would be way beyond calculation, & the more complex the original DNA, the wilder the calculations get. An remember we have no record of highly complex organisms (in a DNA sense) at the beginning - bacteria, even those that produce the stromatolites, are simple compared to mammals.
The idea of producing a simple set that somehow moves into complexity, while still maintaining a complex language structure is difficult to conceive.
But creating a simple set with potential, & then guiding it as it grows, makes the concept much easier to envisage.
Now, if altered consciousness provides a repeatable access to a relam as consistent as Hancock shows it to be, then the obvious experiment monitors would be the beings encountered within that realm - they could sample, monitor & adjust across time as humans found their way into higher consciousness.
Now if you add in the 2% of the population claimed as 'natural' altered state (AS) experiencers, maybe we're talking about the 'controls' for the experiment - predisposed to AS, they would be regularly available for testing even if the hallucinogen route was unavailable.
Keep in mind the experimenters don't actually have to change the genome radically - they can make very minor changes, wait for it to percolate through the populace, & then alter the environment to ensure it becomes dominant.
We already know that humans have an attraction towards particular types of strangers - it is claimed it is to ensure genetic diversity but given it goes often against the social lines acceptable in society, it is a strange choice for evolution to make - too many of the choices wind up with the chooser becoming an outcast from their peers.
Just speculating...
They tell of seeing hybrid offspring too.Quote:
Ah, but the UFO-abductees don't tell of being changed, they tell of being probed, measured & poked - that smacks more of the evaluation phase than an active change time.
That's a long time for evaluation but I guess nothing happens quickly with evolution.
Or percolate through time.Quote:
Keep in mind the experimenters don't actually have to change the genome radically - they can make very minor changes, wait for it to percolate through the populace,
So, how they might alter the environment boggles the mind. Could be subtle, gradual and sporadic or obvious, sudden and pervasive.Quote:
& then alter the environment to ensure it becomes dominant.
I've seen docos that suggest the opposite, that xenophobia is to some degree hardwired. Then again, I saw something the other night that suggested close association between Neanderthals and Homo Sapien Sapiens, to the point of shared hunting, exchange of culture and cohabitation.Quote:
We already know that humans have an attraction towards particular types of strangers
Particular?Quote:
...particular types of strangers
So maybe a social, spiritual evolutionary process must take place first?Quote:
...but given it goes often against the social lines acceptable in society, it is a strange choice for evolution to make - too many of the choices wind up with the chooser becoming an outcast from their peers.
The premise underlying our speculation is that the beings are benevolent, huh?
Yes but the offspring seem to have problems & suffer from a lack of vitality - they might also be the test beds to see where the changes are leading.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beekeeper
Like Precession of the Equinoxes, combined with Obliquity? Maybe also the subtle budging of comet or asteroidal bodies? Perhaps the sudden changes like the abrupt rise of sea levels overnight to reduce a civilisation to isolated pockets of primitive groups who can be influenced by a stranger arriving with new ways to do things?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beekeeper
Xenophobia may be hardwired but sex drive is something else. And there's quite a bit of info about how we are attracted to those who aren't 'local.'Quote:
Originally Posted by Beekeeper
Quote:
...particular types of strangers
Those who smell good...Quote:
Originally Posted by Beekeeper
Well there's pretty solid evidence across the western world as well as Asia that something like one in four children of supposedly stable families are not the progeny of the man of the family. Big sample sizes too... So maybe the sex drive over-rides the social pressures & always has?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beekeeper
Um... really? Why would that be so? Even if the originators of the experiment were such, there's no guarantee their inheritors are. This comes back to the discussion as to whether this game is as it was meant to be or whether it might have become corrupted along the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beekeeper
But they seemed to be getting on top of that. At least that's the impression I got. *Scratches head* Jeez we get into some weird conversations on these boards.Quote:
Yes but the offspring seem to have problems & suffer from a lack of vitality - they might also be the test beds to see where the changes are leading.
Obliquity I think I get but Precession of the Equinoxes you'll have to explain.Quote:
Like Precession of the Equinoxes, combined with Obliquity?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beekeeper
I'm going to have to read Hancock on Atlantis, I see. If these entities can move back and forth in time, then it's possible, I guess, that they could do such enormous things and have a fair idea that that'll move things in the direction they consider desirable.Quote:
Maybe also the subtle budging of comet or asteroidal bodies? Perhaps the sudden changes like the abrupt rise of sea levels overnight to reduce a civilisation to isolated pockets of primitive groups who can be influenced by a stranger arriving with new ways to do things?
Poor dinosaurs.
Quote:
Xenophobia may be hardwired but sex drive is something else. And there's quite a bit of info about how we are attracted to those who aren't 'local.'Quote:
Originally Posted by Beekeeper
[quote:2bqltky6]...particular types of strangers
Those who smell good...[/quote:2bqltky6]Quote:
Originally Posted by Beekeeper
*Sniffs the air* By the way, have I told you about my sexy dog?
:lol:
Actually the same research found a big proportion of those babies had DNA related to the father, just not the father. Normally, the infidelity would occur with someone within the society so the difference wouldn't always be conspicuous. That wouldn't necessarily prove sex drive routinely overrides social pressures only that if people (and animals- because they do it too) can get away with it, they will.Quote:
Well there's pretty solid evidence across the western world as well as Asia that something like one in four children of supposedly stable families are not the progeny of the man of the family. Big sample sizes too... So maybe the sex drive over-rides the social pressures & always has?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beekeeper
What I meant, anyway, is that we may have to evolve greater tolerance before we're ready to accept the new wave of humans, even if they look the same.
I was clarifying. Your question answered mine.Quote:
Um... really? Why would that be so?Quote:
Originally Posted by Beekeeper
It's possibly a familiar scenario: technological progress outstripping ethical development.Quote:
Even if the originators of the experiment were such, there's no guarantee their inheritors are. This comes back to the discussion as to whether this game is as it was meant to be or whether it might have become corrupted along the way.
Precession happens because of the wobble as the Earth spins. Recent more accurate measurements have suggested there's a problem with this view - Earth doesn't precess as much compared with the rest of the Solar System as it does with the Galaxy at large. ie. the whole Solar System is 'precessing' a little - Earth just does it a bit more. The suggestion I saw is the SS is precessing with relation to Sirius.
There are a variety of effects from the peculiarities of the Earth. Precession means the sun rises on the vernal equinox (morning of March 22) in a slightly different place as the years roll by - it marches backwards through the constellations at a rate of 1º per 72 years, full cycle is 25,920 years, each constellation gets approx 2160. This is how the Ages change - where the sun rises on that date determines which 'sign' we are living in.
Obliquity changes the angle at which the Earth leans towards the sun, changing the amount of solar radiation arriving at any given time. From memory the obliquity cycle is around 42,000 years.
The lack of co-ordination between Earth day & Earth year also causes a 'movement' - the vernal equinox 'slips' by a quarter day each year around the orbit, so eventually there comes a time when it occurs all the way around the orbit.
This matters because the Earth orbit is not a perfect circle but an ellipse. When the Northern hemisphere is at its greatest angle to the sun (leaning further away from it) & winter comes to the North when the Earth is at aphelion (furthest away from the sun in the orbit) we get an ice age.
Along with this are the movements of the Solar System around the galaxy, which isn't a straight circle as it kind of bobs above & below the plane of the galaxy, the passage through spiral arms (we've not long come out of the Sirius arm I think) & how the angle of the ecliptic changes in relation to the ecliptic of the galaxy. The lining up with the galactic ecliptic is supposed to be happening now, with full line up being in 2012 - another of those annoying little 'coincidences' that make the 2012 theory so interesting.
You can see that there is any amount of room for manipulation of these things if one simply had the means. I've seen 2 schemes for how to move a planet in SciFi which are theoretically available to us (given we'd need to reach the planet with manufacturing capacity) We could move large asteroids now if we could get nuclear bombs to them.
There is solid evidence things have drastically altered in the past due to 'heavenly' influences. It doesn't have to be as dramatic as an asteroid - Charles Hapgood theorises the Earth had a 'crustal slip' within recent times & the cause could have been the close approach of an asteroid. (Einstein thought the off-centre build up of ice at the South Pole would have been enough to cause it.
There are a couple of super-volcanoes that could do the job as well - Yellowstone is past due to go off - if seems to 'tcik' every 650,000 years & it's been more than that since the last one - that's a volcano with a mouth 70 miles across!
These are just a few of the possibilities for 'altering' society to allow a restart in a new direction.
The parentage issue I mentioned simply to show it's an ongoing & endemic problem. But there is research behind the idea that, if we can, we choose to mate (but not necessarily bond) with strangers - it could be an imperative mandated by our genome - sexual reproduction gives protection from attack - sexual reproduction with strangers gives a wider range of possibilities.
It could also be something brought to us by the experimenters to make sure we don't reject the 'implants' needed to swing the planetary genome in a desired direction. :lol:
If I was a new human, I'd make sure I stayed concealed - I doubt an exposed new human would survive very long at all.
I'm partway through this interview on human alien hybrids and it occurs to me that it resonates with things Hancock talks about in his book, http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fczhd...eature=related
wow, thats all I can say, sounds like a fun read :D