Click outs, click outs, click outs, ARGH!

Oh, as others I am very interested in the RTZ, as it is the only place you can verifiably train your perception. Each reality fluctuation could be nothing more than a distortion in our awareness.

I've read into the posts linked here about phasing on the external site. It seems this guy has access to the RTZ with his phasing as well.

Well it is getting very metaphysical and theoretical, Tempest, I guess the reason why we are here on Earth is that we can integrate what it means to be human into our being, experiences that are unattainable otherwise. Our limited time/space illusion, as Monroe likes to call it in his books, is an extraordinary way to learn, but which role OBE plays in this I do not know. Perhaps it is the reintegration stage, where we start to learn how to function as humans and astral entities at the same time. This process culminates at enlightenment, and then other processes begin, here or wherever. This is what I think about it.

Oliver

CF said:

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I think we should stickify this thread right under the other one with the focus levels.

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Well, you've got the sticky button. :D Of course, when everything we've said has been proven wrong, we'll have to unsticky it. :lol:

Korpo said:

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Our limited time/space illusion, as Monroe likes to call it in his books, is an extraordinary way to learn, but which role OBE plays in this I do not know.

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It's funny you said that. I've been studying metaphysics for 15, 16 or so years now. Up until the last couple of years, I always thought, eh, astral traveling, who cares. Most of my metaphysical friends still think that. Now, I think it's a big step on the progression of understanding the karmic cycle and how to evolve past it. You see the bigger picture and recognize that while earth is a beautiful place, it's just one of the infinite number of sideroads we can take.

Tempest-

Hehe as I was writing my last post, I anticipated your response about "going with the projection reflex no matter what" but I forgot to include my caveat... that at the time I experienced the reflex, I was not awake enough to recognize it for what it was and only experienced abject terror thinking I was dying. Another time I did experience a reflex while awake that was intentional but my excitement, I believe, caused it to abort even though I was 100% committed to the reflex. Everything was roaring, moving, engines go... and then .. nothing. I just woke up.

I guess it wasn't so much about being overwhelmed by the dynamics of the experience itself, as recognizing that taking on this aspect of my life was a serious step and that I'd do well to learn the basic core skills. I don't expect that energy work will shortcut the projection experience any, but I felt like I had taken such a HYUUUUGE step that it would be worth my while to make sure I was wearing sturdy shoes, ya know? I've got a really bad habit of approaching things without putting in the discipline and commitment... as a violinist I hated spending times on scales and arpeggios but they are the technical bread and butter of any good musician and shouldn't be neglected. My efforts in the land of lucid dreaming also indicated to me that I wasn't running at full capacity... I'd try to effect a shift and struggle to maintain lucidity through the shift. After experiencing the big "WHOAH!" of a reflex, I guess I just wanted to focus on the basics for awhile... and while I know I'm sounding way too systematic lately, trust me... this is good for me right now, because I have never been a systematic person and this has been a good exploration in discipline for me. I'm stopping to smell the flowers, as it were.... everyone is different, and for me this a process that I am going through slowly because I have a hard time accepting it and adapting to it otherwise. I'm a cowherder, not an adventurer. :D But you are a big inspiration to me and a reminder that it's ok to be creative and not get stuck in a rut if one of the nuts and bolts proves too challenging.

Being stuck in the Monroe box is more about the lack of instructions than anything, lol... so in that regard I really appreciate the input, knowing that the TMI isn't going to be quizzing me on the exact wording of the affirmation later, lol. But listening to the tracks with little familiarity to the terms and processes can be a bit confusing in just one pass, so I've been trying to get familiar with it by going back over the tracks.

Re: click outs... if you always get out on a click out, are you snapping immediately back in when you wake? See, I'm basically clicking from instruction to instruction, or missing instructions entirely, I just figured I was falling asleep. It just seems too in /out to be much of anything. I'm not trying to OBE traditionally or otherwise right now, so anything happening is just incidental. And yep I'm aware of Monroe's phasing and am very interested in phasing :D I think I'd take to it pretty well as it takes almost no time at all for me to pull up hypnagogics / scenes in a half awake state, the trick is just for me to not fall asleep. Not long ago, I was listening to Focus 10 and became aware of looking at the inside of a train carriage... then I felt this great motion forward like I was thrown INTO the train carriage, and there I was riding in the train. Something else woke me up, but I felt like I was in the right vicinity, ya know? The latest phenomenon for me is light... I become aware of either flashing lights, like a brow strobe, or car headlights driving by, or this sensation like I have my eyes closed and a lamp is on nearby, and I "open my eyes" and become visually aware of a lamp lighting a cozy (nonphysical) room. Phasing's probably right up my alley. :D

And NOW TO END THE POST with some good news!! Or at least, some "almost" good news, lol... because I ultimately wimped out. And the timing of it, with the thread topic and all, is pretty striking to me.

Last night after a Focus 10 exercise, I moved on to Intro to Focus 12 for the first time. It wasn't the most telling session... I was feeling unnerved and a bit spooked, like I couldn't quite get into the session without feeling as if someone were in the room with me. I thought about how that "someone's there" feeling could relate back to sensing your astral double and jokingly thought to myself "I'd better not be messing around out there!" Well, I clicked out for about 3/4ths of Focus 12 and don't remember anything after "And I'll join you in Focus 10." I came to as he was closing the session, after which I got up out of my armchair and went to bed.

It seemed to take me a long time to actually fall fully asleep, like a part of my mind was awake for a really long time before following the rest of my mind down, but not a part I was very aware of. As far as 95% of me was concerned, I was instantly unconscious and ready for a full night's rest.

The next thing I was aware of... after that small piece of my mind seemed to spend a long time in a very introspective, cozy dark "Focus 10-ish" mode, it was like, I was looking at a part of my dark bedroom. But it's not right to say I was looking at it.. it's more like I just became aware of it. An astral awareness, as if looking at these two pieces of my dark bedroom from the end of a long tunnel and seeing these pieces as my destination.

Then ... the projection reflex started !! And this brought me awake and I'm delighted to say that this process of coming awake did NOT disturb the reflex. I was ALSO delighted to be so aware of what was going on, to be able to dispassionately observe the sensations.

My first observation was to notice how different it felt from my last terrifying "wake up into reflex" experience... this time it didn't feel as chaotic and overwhelming. The sensation was that of an engine loudly idling... and in regular intervals, this engine would REV two or three times.. and on each rev, a delightful but powerful vibration would purr up my body along the spine in tandem with this noise.... brrrrrrrmmmmmVROOOOM!!! VROOOM!!!brmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmVROOM!!!! VROOM!!!!! ... this engine was ready to GO. Things were just humming and purring MUCH smoother than the last experience, which was really a heartening testament to all the energy work I've been doing in the past year. There was just so much more harmony in these energetic sensations than I was accustomed to; there seemed to be a real pattern to the revolutions as it built up to an inevitable conclusion. It was an extremely fascinating process energetically to experience and I have to frankly say that it even felt really good, if dynamic. And I knew with 100% certainty that I could do this, that if I saw it through that I would OBE, that this was a successful reflex revving up that would blast me right out. But ... man, I'm afraid that the spookiness of the night just wore on me and I couldn't stomach the idea of having a first consciously induced projection into that unknown darkness and would preferred experiencing this in the daytime. Yep I totally wimped out. Just too visceral, like I was being dragged into an experience rather than directing it. If you're swimming in dark water and something snatches your ankle and starts to drag you under, even though you KNOW everything will be fine, your instincts fight and tell you stay at the surface rather than get dragged below into the dark. So I stopped the reflex and came fully awake, I'm afraid, which may hinder me later... but that's a pretty good side effect of the Focus 12 exercise, I'd have to say... and just the experience of being fully conscious and observing the reflex was well worth the price of admission! Yay!

Hello, stargazer.

I think you are doing perfectly fine. Working through fear cannot be rushed, and you are learning your ropes so very well, I think.

While I do not want to "project" my fear on you, I just say that when you trigger the projection you should feel as comfortable as can be about it, especially at first, then nothing you encounter can unnerve you. I do not think fear is there without reason, it always signifies something. If you chose the right environment, the right time and minimise fear I guess the experience will be even more enjoyable. I'm a proponent for daytime projecting as well, and RB and others seem to agree that it makes the stuff easier.

But as I read your post I see that is exactly what you seem to do, so I'm just agreeing to you, perhaps for a little support, and not telling you anything new anyhow. It's nice to see you are making such great progress in so little time - I feel pretty much "overtaken" by you now. Damn! :lol:

I am also a sucker for systematic and have to struggle with doing the "boring stuff", as I had to when learning to play the guitar or doing the energy work I now focus on. It is frustrating at first, sometimes boring, but it pays off to no end. When you reach harvest time, being systematic and persisting in overcoming inertia will take you anywhere.

Go at your own pace, you seem to know it very well.

Take good care and wish you the best,
Oliver

P.S.: Why don't you project out of a lucid dream? You seem to have a good grasp of that. :)

Oliver,

Thank you, thank you, thank you, you are ever so kind and supportive... which I suppose we all SHOULD be with our fellows' spiritual endeavors... but I thank you so much for the support anyhow, it's much appreciated... your encouragement has really helped me want to move forward.

I have attempted to project out of a lucid dream before and most of my attempts have either caused myself to get stuck or simply moved into a different dream scenario... Saltcube's Matthew is an excellent lucid dreamer and we've discussed LD projections before and tried several different techniques for transitioning, including jumping off of cliffs, climbing through mirrors, windows or doors, spinning, falling, willing it to happen, etc.

I had an interesting attempt with a mirror that I detailed awhile back in the dreaming threads... I turned it into a window and deliberately caused a scenario to appear that I could climb into.. the scenarios kept quickly changing however, from day to night in different locales like a screensaver, and I picked a likeable day scenario and climbed through to it... I found myself stuck waist deep in the mirror in a 3-D darkness while my scenario was still flat and far away, and though I tried climbing all the way through, only ended up waking up. Matthew has said that most times while going through a door or window in a LD he finds himself wrapped up in a coccoon of sorts.. he fights with the coccoon for a bit and then finds himself awake in his astral body, in the astral. Another window/mirror attempt found me wrapped up in that coccoon and I was too much at peace, didn't fight the coccoon and drifted back deeper into sleep, which I have never done before during an LD (Most LD's result in waking).

Falling backwards only caused a somewhat lucid dream to become a very lucid dream for me, but there was a definite shift in the scenario. I have not yet tried falling forwards, because the one time I was lucid and thought about trying it, I was already in the RTZ (or approximation thereof) and didn't quite realize it at the time. I had climbed over a short ledge and when I did, found myself climbing over the ledge in my living room to my kitchen. I did not recognize it as my kitchen at the time and had to put together the details later... I stood for awhile and watched the sun come up, feeling "blurry" spots in my legs that I took to be blockages or areas "out of phase" with my current state. This was another indication to me that I had more energy work to do, as the kind of shift I was trying to effect seemed to require more energy. My orientation was really funny in that experience too, as I thought I was in a house whose backyard was facing west... but afterall I was watching the sun rise in the windows!! (which face southeast)

Spinning was interesting but didn't do much; it kinda sharpened my lucidity but caused no shifts. The same with willing it to happen.

I have not yet tried jumping off a cliff, but the imagined speed / impact is apparently enough to jar your astral body out and awake and you usually find yourself standing in your bedroom, apparently.

The thing about lucid dreaming for me is that they come in fits and starts and only when I'm really willing them to manifest, which I haven't lately.. the focus lately has been on learning trance state and energy work. I also have to be well rested, which most of the time I'm not, hehe. But I love lucid dreaming, and some of my lucid experiences have been so breathtaking that I have smelled fragrances (supposedly impossible in dreams, I hear ?) and felt pain.

It's all about where your focus is at, and since I haven't been OBE!OBE!OBE! girl lately, I haven't been LDing as much. :D

Hello, Andrea.

I see you are very creative and maybe playful in what you re doing, and I think it will help you later on to no end. Whenever you get the ingredients together just at the right time, be it tomorrow or in a month. Though I suspect you are getting things in line for some time now, and if it happens at the right time it might just happen.

Tempest is absolutely right about one thing - okay, about a lot of things, but I want to focus on one now! ;) - that chosing not to project or breaking off attempts builds a block of fear. Some encourage to project regardless and overcome this fear that way. RB suggests this, but RB suggests as well that if you cannot overcome fear you are just not ready to project, as the OBE environment is very susceptible to this. This is both in the concluding chapters of AD, which I reread just yesterday because of this.

So I am trying to work with my fear, emotions and energies lately, and it is not easy, I say! :) This block is definitely there, and it serves a purpose for me. It prevents me from entering a situation I'm not quite ready to handle. As I obtain the capability to work through my fears I will get the ability to work through that block as well, but now it forsakes me a lot of attempts that came close. It blocks off a lot of avenues I have travelled almost to conclusion to OBE - the 3D blackness for phasing (I felt it had something to do with OBE!), spontaneous exit sensations at night, Monroe tape effects. These issues keep resurfacing for me, and they cannot be simply overcome by "just doing it", as they root in deeper fears, so I'm back to the drawing board and doing my work again until I finally got a grip on those deeper issues as well.

But there is a small lesson in this as well - if you get a day or part of day where you feel very confident and like "Let's do this", then take your headphones and try to win through! And all other times, just hone your skills and you will have them when you need them. When fears become unfounded the underlying interconnectedness of issues resolves, and you will be able to see your OBE attempts separate from other fears, but I think it needs a good launchpad. After that OBE should become relatively unproblematic, and you can focus again on other issues.

Besides, Kudos! to what you did with lucid dreams already. It sounds marvellous.

Take good care,
Oliver

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Originally Posted by Tempestinateapot

CF said:

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I think we should stickify this thread right under the other one with the focus levels.

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Well, you've got the sticky button. :D Of course, when everything we've said has been proven wrong, we'll have to unsticky it. :lol:

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Well at this point I'm rethinking it, since it has so many other things. If I split it and stickify it still has other stuff that is coherent to the first part of the post and maybe it'd be annoying.
I'll think about it some more, or maybe I'll copy the 'how to parts' and sticky them.
It's handy to have 'instructions', even if they don't work for everybody.

Sorry, CFT, if we "ruined" the thread with our "personal stuff". :lol:

:wink:

Oliver

:P

I just copied and pasted together a how-to phase and stickified it.
I hope it seems coherent.
:lol:

Good enough for me - a good solution. :)

Oliver