Seeking greater understanding of the Big Picture

Hello folks. I'm hoping to get some insights from forum members about how the greater reality 'works'. I've been steadily reading about this kind of material for a long time now. Although I've had a handful of 'mystical' experiences, most of my efforts at development have been intellectual (reading), and fostering greater awareness.

One of my paths of learning followed this line of bread crumbs: I became aware of the phenomenon of near death experiences (through reading books). From this point I researched in many directions. My intellectual knowledge grew, and I was able to piece together a rough outline of how things work.

However, I occasionally come across concepts which don't fit into my growing conceptual understanding. I then turn my attention to the anomaly, to understand it better and how it might fit into the jigsaw.

Not surprisingly, given the complexity of the subject, and my purely intellectual learning framework, I always have a considerable pile of these jigsaw puzzle pieces heh heh! I'd like to use this thread to gain some insights and opinions from others who are more widely read than I, or have some direct experiential knowledge to share.

Bear with me in regards to the length of my posts (hard to cover the material in a few sentences), and my choice of words (I use terms like 'God', 'mystical' and 'time' loosely, for the sake of keeping the posts as short as possible).

Initially I read deeply into the subject of near death experiences (NDE's). In my younger years (I'm in my late 40's now), this seemed the first tangible evidence that I could accept of the continuation of consciousness and a greater unseen reality.

They seemed to be exclusively positive experiences, and I began to think that was a given. Quite a number of years ago, I stumbled across accounts of negative experiences, and I at first dismissed them as erroneous. However, I came across more, and started to take notice. As they didn't fit into the picture of understanding I was building up, I turned my focus to them, which opened a whole new avenue of research...which has in turn broadened my knowledge.

Since then, I have come to think that to a large degree, negative NDE's are caused my a person's state of mind in a broad sense (their framework of beliefs in many cases), being responded to by a reactive spiritual dimension, in which they kind of create for themselves, or are drawn to a certain vibration or 'realms'. It is a temporary condition, and they will eventually (in a short or longer 'time') emerge to their true awareness and condition.

One case in particular has stuck in my memory as somewhat of an anomoly among anomolies. The lady died during childbirth, and had a negative 'near-death' experience. It disturbed her, and sparked a lifelong quest for better understanding (which I suppose is a positive result). She became a leader of the International Association for Near-Death Studies (IANDS), and wrote a book that I read, called Dancing Past the Dark: Distressing Near-Death Experiences.

The reason her experience stood out to me was that it was unlike the pattern of 'usual' cases. It consisted of her being suspended in a seemingly limitless void of nothingness. She felt emotions of cosmic abandonment and annihilation (poor thing).

From my continued reading on this, I have found several possible reasons why she might have found herself in this void. One possible reason is that she 'created' it through her own beliefs or state of mind.

Another I got from Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls, by Dr Michael Newton, a Psychologist and Hypnotherapist, in which he has put thousands of patients into deep hypnosis, and apparently brings forth memories of the state 'between' incarnations. He too has built up a picture of the bigger reality by piecing together accounts.

In a very matter of fact way, souls talk about multiple dimensions or realms, each with it's own flavour of reality. Some souls learn the speciality of exploring and navigating these various dimensions, and act as guides for groups, for the purposes of learning and recreation.

Like navigating using a street map, they speak of passing 'through' dimensions to get to another - Jane Robert's Seth books (apparently a 'channeled spirit') also talk about this. They speak about some dimensions being 'empty' voids, and I get the impression that they are like warehouses or husks that are being prepared for creation of entirely new realities or realms (fascinating!). Could she have lost her way home somehow, and found herself in one of these dimensions?

The final concept that occurs to me, is one that I have gotten from a new book I'm reading called Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsch. The concept of God trying to experience itself more fully is not a new one to me - I've come across it several places. But this book in its straight forward style of writing (apparently written by 'automatic writing') has made me think of the motivating force behind creation itself.

It is almost as if 'God', a consciousness that somehow existed by who-knows-what cause, was floating in a sea of nothingness, with only itself to keep it company. The prime motivation for creation would seem to be to translate a 'concept' into 'experience' (something I could clearly benefit from too, heh heh). For that, God did two things - splitting itself into many consciousnesses ("this, and that"), and creating the polarities of love and not-love (in the form of fear).

I kind of think of it as...God got lonely, heh heh. Could the lady who experienced the void have had a glimpse into the primal state of being for God 'before' creation? Just floating in a void of nothingness, with only yourself to keep you company?

Thanks for reading, and for any thoughts people may wish to add.

Hi you,

I am happy for your starting this thread, I have several very odd experiences happened during awake state….This one did happen in 1983, I had a relationship with an man from India, as you can see the big beatening of me and my son was only 2 years back, I had to show my son that there are kind men too, this man was so kind. He never told me anything about his customs and habits or cultural differences to me…He had not bean at his home in India for more than 10 years since he left his home. I understand he was anxious and wondering if they will recognize him, and then he had me with him too. When we came to the airport he started to say…and nearly cry…we do not find the way…they will not come and meet us…I did find this very odd, why did he say this way…so I as I am always positve I asked him, how do they look like and how many are they….I was lookiing into the voide and I did see 3 men it was like from the Aladin story…they had turbans and looked like from a fairy tail…I told him…is it them….I thought he did see them too, but it took a while before they apeared for him to too to see them….This did stay with me, it was like they did come accross the clouds…..To make this story short…they did take me to a trip to see more of India…and in one town they wanted to go to movies, but I did not want, to see an India film is no high score of me…so I told them…you go to movies, I stay on this marketplace…they went to the movies…and in some sekunds the whole marketplace did go emty…total empty?? I did not understand what happened…but there I was on this big marketplace all alone….do this happen when you are able to empty your mind, and do not have any active thoughts….you just do not know what to think, you just exist…like I did this time….it felt like an eternity before they did come back, and again like through clouds..and in some sekunds the whole marketplace was full of people again??...I do not know what to believe…and I have never told anyone about this, because they will say….you are making this up…but this is the very truth…so what happened?? I do not know still after all these years…Of course the thought has occured to me that I was on some other dimension…like on an parallell world….It is still bothering my mind, I want to know.

Love
Ia

Hi Ia, thanks for your post and sharing this story. It certainly sounds like some sort of altered state of consciousness...very interesting! Certainly India is a place with a long and rich history of exploring consciousness and states of mind!

Okay, here's another one. Recently I read several of Jane Robert's Seth books, and also re-read Dr Newton's Destiny of Souls. They have many similarities, but also some important differences.

The similarities are too numerous to mention, but one that stands out for me is the concept of 'soul groups'. The concept as I understand it, is that each person has/is an 'oversoul' that incarnates into physical life using a portion of its consciousness.

This 'portion' is what we experience here, as individuals or personalities. This individual's identity is never lost or re-absorbed or destroyed, and can develop itself as an individual. It is at the same time always a part of the oversoul entity.

Presumeably, once a personality has developed itself sufficiently, it too can become an oversoul with the ability to create personalities. I also presume that an oversoul is itself part of an even greater entity, with many 'levels'. This could ultimately be what the original creation event was all about - God splitting off portions of itself, who in turn split off portions, and so on.

I realise this may all be over-simplified or even not correct, but this is what I have gleaned from these books and others. Assuming I'm on the right track, here are the concepts that don't make sense to me...

On the one hand, you have Seth (Jane's 'channeled spirit' - although Seth apparently doesn't like that label, heh heh) saying that all time happens at once. And yet, in Newton's accounts, there is definately a progression of an individual's experience and understanding. So, although 'time' as we know it might not have relevance out of the incarnated state, there would seem to be some kind of cause/effect or sequence of events at play to make any kind of progression meaningful.

And with one individual repeatedly incarnating, you would think think that there is a common thread of identity through multiple lives. Does this mean that each 'shard' of an oversoul's consciousness has within it the sense of individuality gained from each successive incarnation? Or does each incarnation create a new free-willed consciousness of its own, that can go off and do it's own thing? Or both? Wow, hard to fathom.

If you throw into the mix Seth's concept of mutiple (infinite!) 'probable' lives of a single individual, each with it's own consciousness and individuality, things really start looking like a soccer riot, heh heh! How could this be so? Infinite versions of your own personality, all living their own lives, with their own point of consciousness? If they all have valid individuality, then could you expect to meet infinite versions of yourself once leaving incarnation? Surely not. I must be missing something.

I've just got Jane Robert's book The Unknown Reality Vol.1, which is supposed to explore this concept (probable selves) in more detail, so hopefully that will shed some light on the subject. Again, I'd appreciate any viewpoints that could provide insights on these subjects.

I will try to give my picture of the evolution of the soul,I do not know what to call it, so I hope you do take it what it is worth,surely nothing J

As I have bean told about right and wrong, negative and positive, and all this learned has shown to be total wrong on the ”higher”realms, if I can call it this way??!! I do not have better word´s to describe.

In a society you do need rules, as there are energy law´s too, and If I use this picture to try to describe…You need to wasch your hand´s before you eat….or you do not sit down on a coutch with dirty trousers….as you do not have accecc to ”higher” realms before you have clined your energy up.

When I was on the divider-line and was met up by YHWH, andby his energy I got to get the echo of the eternity or the big ocean….what is our real home….Before we can come home, we need to have total willingness to be one drop in this ocean…We have our free will, if we want to be breathened back to existence so to speak, we can…..As I felt so clearly that there must be total willingness, becasue we have free will…but before we know what free wil lis, and can use it in right way, it is a hard road of try and error…and it take´s also much effort to …wake up….to get out all kind of fear, and illusions and what not…..

So by this knowing I am at peace in my soul, but my personality is many time´s upset how for example our society work´s or lack of it….So even I know this and it is true to me, I am not protected against sorrows or feelings of sadness when I see horrible happenings, how we trea tour brothers and sisters…or our animals….This make´s me only want to not to open my TV or be much online…I need much stillness and happy feelings to cope with life.

Love
Ia

Well, I don't know how it works. I only know what I can surmise from what I've experienced and observed.

In a nutshell: It's all a big, complicated, interwoven dream that Consciousness is having. I'm not even sure that Consciousness has a "plan", other than "to experience everything possible, in every possible combination, flavour, style, shape, and design". It seems that we are the "filters" for the whole of reality, and what we create (yes, I believe we create our reality) comes about because of our individual, unique design. I also suspect that there are infinite "other" realities where subtle and not so subtle variations take place (yes, the "many worlds theory" of quantum physics), so that Consciousness can see, do, and be EVERYTHING. Because it already is that. Creation is self-creation, and the Creator IS the Creation.

That's my take on it. At least, it is as of this point in the space-time continuum. These things are never set in stone from what I've seen. I may have some new revelation or epiphany tomorrow and the whole thing will change. Always have to be prepared for that. I don't think reality is as constant and stable as most people seem to think it is. ;)

Thanks Ia and BFW for your replies.

I realise that this whole subject matter - considering the big expanse of reality - is nebulous from our current perspective (especially mine haha!). But I am fascinated by the threads of information I gain from the sources that are available to me. From these threads I am seeing a pattern emerging, and the pattern seems to indicate some order and structure. There also seem to be some universal laws that apply to various dimensions. They are like tools used for creation and experience.

I read the first volume of a trilogy by physicist and consciousness researcher Thomas Campbell, called "My Big TOE" (TOE = Theory Of Everything), and recently bought the second one in the series. Campbell is apparently no stranger to out of body experiences, and was one of the founding members of the Monroe Institute. It can be quite heavy reading in some chapeters, as you'd expect from a mystical physicist, heh heh. In it, he postulates that the 'Source', while unimaginably vast, may not actually be 'infinite'. Infinite in potential, but in actual creation, energy is used more wisely. I'm rather clumsily over-simplifying it, but the way he presented it made sense to me, and made me think.

Similarly, people talk about 'no-time' or all-time' or 'simultaneous time' in regards to the state of being outside incarnation, and it is implied that time has zero relevance in the greater reality. This never sat well with me, because (as stated in one of my earlier posts), there would be little sense of cause/effect or progression - in a personality's spiritual development, or in any kind of creation. Where's the fun in experiencing and exploring and creating if it's already done! Surely creation in the broader sense is a constantly evolving, expanding action. 'Time', or at least a sequence of events should have some kind of relevance, surely?

Interestingly, this morning I started reading Jane Robert's Unknown Reality (while eating my breakfast cereal, heh heh! Very solemn), and saw this regarding time: ...Yet Seth's simultaneous time isn't an absolute, for, as he also told us in that session: "While I am not affected by time on your plane, I am affected by something resembling time on my plane...to me time can be manipulated, used at leisure and examined."

Likewise with creating our own reality. While I can see the 'logic' in attracting certain events to ourselves by our emotions and state of mind (whether on a purely mundane day-to-day level, or some kind of profound invisible level), I couldn't understand the concept of actually being responsible for the direct creation of reality.

Seth mentions our creation of reality often. However, I read this bit below, at the end of The Seth Material book, that explains that idea, with an important distinction. The creator he's referring to is the 'Inner Self', the greater ball of awareness from which he says we sprang and are a part of.

"It is this inner self, out of massive knowledge and the unlimited scope of its consciousness, that forms the physical world and provides stimuli to keep the outer ego constantly at the job of awareness."

Interesting too, that this creation of matter and material and even life forms is mentioned in several places within Michael Newton's books.

What fun! The whole thing fills me with the joy of exploration, wonder, and things to do and learn! The more I read about the Big Picture, the more exciting it gets.

I can't resist writing another post here. I feel like a dusty old scribe, scribbling away in the archives basement, muttering to himself heh heh! Nice of Ia and BFW to pop by and keep a dusty old scribe company. "Now where did I put that quill?"

I'm not very far into Unknown Realities, but already there are indications that the 'energy personality' named Seth is going to talk about the 'probable selves'.

By the way, just have to say, that I take whatever I read on board only lightly. I'm willing (driven) to learn, but I keep my 'skeptic' tools close by. Not having any immediate access to direct insights (so it would seem?), I can only pursue this subject 2nd and 3rd hand.

I don't doubt that many people more 'down to earth' than I would be asking me (and I ask myself this question too!) "why in the world are you spending time reading fanciful stuff supposedly written by automatic writing, 'channeled' spirits and hypnosis subjects?"

The way I look at it, I want to know more (and what I have 'learned' so far HAS helped me in many important ways!). In order to do that, I've got to be prepared to look far and wide, and be willing to simultaneously keep an open mind, AND filter what I'm reading as "could be true, might not" or even "could be true, but only partially" and "could be based on truth, but heavily distorted".

I sometimes wonder why, with my interest in these subjects, I haven't had some kind of great epiphany or had my intuition or psychic senses develop. It used to bug me a bit, but not so much now. I've become more patient...to the point where I don't really mind one way or the other. It also has occurred to me that perhaps the "greater I" chose to learn this way...at least for a time. I'll just stay alert to any inner developments, continue with my studies and trying to live life as 'gracefully' as possible. What more can I 'do'?

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Originally Posted by Energize

I can't resist writing another post here. I feel like a dusty old scribe, scribbling away in the archives basement, muttering to himself heh heh! Nice of Ia and BFW to pop by and keep a dusty old scribe company. "Now where did I put that quill?"

I'm not very far into Unknown Realities, but already there are indications that the 'energy personality' named Seth is going to talk about the 'probable selves'.

By the way, just have to say, that I take whatever I read on board only lightly. I'm willing (driven) to learn, but I keep my 'skeptic' tools close by. Not having any immediate access to direct insights (so it would seem?), I can only pursue this subject 2nd and 3rd hand.

I don't doubt that many people more 'down to earth' than I would be asking me (and I ask myself this question too!) "why in the world are you spending time reading fanciful stuff supposedly written by automatic writing, 'channeled' spirits and hypnosis subjects?"

The way I look at it, I want to know more (and what I have 'learned' so far HAS helped me in many important ways!). In order to do that, I've got to be prepared to look far and wide, and be willing to simultaneously keep an open mind, AND filter what I'm reading as "could be true, might not" or even "could be true, but only partially" and "could be based on truth, but heavily distorted".

I sometimes wonder why, with my interest in these subjects, I haven't had some kind of great epiphany or had my intuition or psychic senses develop. It used to bug me a bit, but not so much now. I've become more patient...to the point where I don't really mind one way or the other. It also has occurred to me that perhaps the "greater I" chose to learn this way...at least for a time. I'll just stay alert to any inner developments, continue with my studies and trying to live life as 'gracefully' as possible. What more can I 'do'?

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Hi you :-)

I can tell you how it has bean in my life. My strong energysurges started as an infant, as you remember me telling you about the ”vacum”state or feeling…My mother did not want to hold me in her arms and I can tellwhy, because the strong energy did feel like sexual energy, when I have askedher why she did not hold me as little child, she told me that I did not want tobe touched, but I know how the truth is since I have bean able to SEE how itwas, but she can´t handle the truth, but it is enough for me to know.

So when I became older but still under 7 year old, my motherdid ”hit” me so hard when my energies rose that I did shut me down, but thisenergy is so strong that it will not be kept shut down by my will there is agreater WILL behind our energy.

But this strong energy does also if not kept in line, try toboost my ego in wrong way, so it is better to not concentrate on it, but beopen for it and bless it when it comes, and not to get hybris or think I am specialif you understand how I mean??

To be down to earth is very important, and be open andbalanced.

So your approach feel´s healthy and good. Keep up the goodwork.

Love
Ia

Hi Energize , just want to say reading your posts and questions I can feel the excitement you are feeling. It comes through in your writing. This reminds me of when I first started out and infact I don't think the excitement has left me. Guessing here but I think many reading this would say the same.
Those people who may wonder WHY waste time following this? You've already answered the question.
It has helped you in many ways.
You could ask someone. Why fly kites? why birdwatch? why collect stamps, why study ancient history when it's all in the past?
They will all have an excitement that you don't feel and maybe wonder what the heck there talking about. Crazy people.
So you have found this door that is open to walk through and explore. I think we should never stop asking questions, trying to find answers, admitting to getting it wrong along the way and always keeping an open mind to every possability.
I think none of us will ever know for sure of anything until we pass but we can for sure have a great adventure trying to find out.
What other HOBBY could provide you with
Curiosity
Fear
Hunger for more
Surprise
Dis-belief
Excitement
Obsession
Maybe dissapointment
Maybe imbalance
The list goes on.

Thanks Ia and Susan for your encouraging messages. Good to hear from fellow travellers and explorers. :)

I wanted to briefly share a concept I have been pondering. I (and my sons) play video games. These days, the graphics are really excellent and realistic, and the stories and characters have quite a bit of depth. Virtual reality! ;)

I can't help but compare these games to the concept of the Big Picture...loosely anyway.

While I play a game, I am immersed in the world and the experiences of the character I am playing. But when it is time to end the gaming session, I easily withdraw from the experience, and return to my regular reality. This strikes me as somewhat similar to the concept of a soul living lives in this dimension. Ending incarnation is like ending a gaming session. All in a much much more profound and deeper way of course, but I suspect there may be some conceptual similarities.

When I am playing a really good game, I will often create several different characters to explore their strengths and weaknesses. Again - like multiple lives lived within a single world by the same player/soul. Add to the mix, the pursuit of MMOG's (massively multiplayer online games), where thousands of players play their characters in a shared world...now the analogy gets even stronger. Talking with each other, helping each other, stealing from each other, and fighting each other. Welcome to EARTH! We are truely brave badasses!!

Finally, in regards to this (somewhat confusing) concept of 'probable selves'...often I will save my game at a particular crossroads, and try out different actions to see what happens, reloading the save each time. I've even taken it to extremes within the game system, like jumping my character off a cliff, just to see what's down there, heh heh! Ahhh...no consequences!

I'm not in any way confusing our reality with fantasy game worlds of course, but it is very interesting to see the vague similarities between the two. A couple of the many key differences (as I understand it) is that the 'real' world is for much higher stakes, and the 'character' being played is conscious in its own right.

Could it be that the popularity of games has its root in peoples' unconscious identification with the process? Nah! It's just fun! :D

Hi Energize, very good read and well thought out.
For me. I can honestly say with all my heart that I have never in my life played a computer game. I haven't even watched the film Star Wars.
I must be the only nerd around.( not sure what that means but sounds right).

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Originally Posted by Energize

While I play a game, I am immersed in the world and the experiences of the character I am playing. But when it is time to end the gaming session, I easily withdraw from the experience, and return to my regular reality. This strikes me as somewhat similar to the concept of a soul living lives in this dimension. Ending incarnation is like ending a gaming session. All in a much much more profound and deeper way of course, but I suspect there may be some conceptual similarities.

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Yep. I've made that comparison, myself. It's a pretty good metaphor, I think.

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Originally Posted by Energize

often I will save my game at a particular crossroads, and try out different actions to see what happens, reloading the save each time. I've even taken it to extremes within the game system, like jumping my character off a cliff, just to see what's down there, heh heh! Ahhh...no consequences!

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Yes. Exactly like that. ;)

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Originally Posted by Energize

Could it be that the popularity of games has its root in peoples' unconscious identification with the process? Nah! It's just fun! :D

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Human minds are by their nature easily drawn into the drama and conflict and comedy of stories. Books, plays, films, tv shows, video games... reality... ;)

Thanks Susan. And by the way, game players and Star Wars viewers are the ones generally known as nerds. You may be one of the few non-nerds around. :D

Thanks BFW. It is strange indeed the stuff people are interested in for their entertainment. I've known mild mannered people who only watch crime documentaries about serial killers, a friend who is mysteriously obsessed with maritime warfare, and my wife (who generally has her head screwed on right) often enjoys watching trashy 'tabloid' reality shows. Go figure eh? Where does all THAT come from? :shock:

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Originally Posted by Energize

Thanks BFW. It is strange indeed the stuff people are interested in for their entertainment. I've known mild mannered people who only watch crime documentaries about serial killers, a friend who is mysteriously obsessed with maritime warfare, and my wife (who generally has her head screwed on right) often enjoys watching trashy 'tabloid' reality shows. Go figure eh? Where does all THAT come from? :shock:

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One of my guilty pleasures is "Cops". Yes, the cheap send-a-camera-with-some-cops show with incredibly stupid criminals who are apparently happy to sign release forms and appear on television in all their criminal stupidity. I dunno. :) (I do have rules. I don't seek it out, never record it, but if I'm flipping channels and it's on and I haven't got something more pressing to watch, well... ;))

Maybe you are Senior Constable ButterflyWoman in another reality!! :D

Still only a little way into 'Unknown Realities', and 'Seth' is already talking about infinite probable selves. This really twists my brain into a knot. I'm sure more understanding will come the deeper I get into the book.

Nonetheless, there are already some very interesting nuggets of information I've come across so far.

In one of the footnotes Seth says "I will speak of the entity {I think this is referring to the 'oversoul' or 'greater self'}, the personalities, the reincarnations, the diverse personality fragment groupings {the 'probable selves'?}, the planes with which you are familiar or can understand, and ultimately try to deal with your questions, implied if not spoken, as to where entities came from to begin with." This is exactly what I want to know more about.

There are 2 things about the probable selves that gives me pause. One, is how this fits in to the Big Picture I have been reading about. It doesn't seem to fit. Two, is the idea that 'I' am experiencing infinite other paths is somehow disquieting. Conceptually - Is there a me out there that is in dire trouble and needs help or is heading down a dark path? Conversely, is there a me out there that is like Superman, and 'I' am the one lagging behind?

Here is another quote from Unknown Realities that talks about the interrelation of the probable selves: "This material should not make you feel unimportant or insignificant. The framework is so woven that each particle [of consciousness] is dependent upon every other. The strength of one adds to the strength of all. The weakness of one weakens the whole. The energy of one recreates whole. The striving of one increases the potentiality of everything that is, and this places great responsibility upon every consciousness."

Wow. Heady stuff. Although it all sounds vaguely narcissistic heh heh!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfTMda5KP7s

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Originally Posted by Energize

Maybe you are Senior Constable ButterflyWoman in another reality!! :D

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Or a criminal. It's not so unthinkable. A few slightly different turns in life...

I've been thinking about empathy and compassion.

In my early years, I became aware of the suffering of people presently and in the past (although if all time happens simultaneously, it could be understood to be happening right now). Unlike Gautama Buddha though, instead of rushing out to find a cure (and living the life of an ascetic heh heh!), I took a wrong turn. I thought "how deep does this hole go? what is the worst that can happen to people?"

From there I read books which explored all the horrors and pain people have been through, going deeper and deeper into a dark ocean mentally. Not surprisingly, I became despondent, depressed, and cynical. Everything in the world seemed meaningless and took on dark overtones. Everything! Even everyday objects!

I couldn't reconcile the harsh realities of life and suffering with the seeming banal goings-on people were engaged in. Talking about sports, pursuing trivial junk and mindlessly going to robot-like jobs each day (it seemed to me at the time). What was the point, given the 'seriousness' of life and suffering and death (which I assumed was annihilation)? Maybe I was one the first 'Goths' (gloomy vampire-like subculture) haha!

Eventually something had to 'give'. It was from a very low dark state that I switched my enquiring mind from gloom and dispair to finding deeper meaning and purpose. Over time I was able to 'reprogram' myself, and switch polarities. It was a rough ride indeed, and a relief to find greater wisdom and joy in life.

However, there are still some niggling doubts and confusions that linger in regards to 'divine' compasion. I understand conceptually the idea of suffering as an 'experience', that is an illusion of sorts, that doesn't last, and is a tool for greater understanding and awareness. Also that the 'greater self' often apparently chooses suffering before they even start an incarnation. 'Karma' as a tool for understanding and experience rather than a punishment. Bit still, it seems way too extreme in many cases.

I am reading several books at the same time at the moment. 'Conversations with God' (an apparent 'automatic writing' piece) is one I started with some doubts, because it sounded a bit 'new-agey', but I have found it very engaging. Some relevant quotes below, regarding suffering:

"Deep personal disappointments are responses which are chosen, and worldwide calamities are the result of worldwide consciousness.
Your question infers that I choose these events, that it is My will and desire they should occur. Yet I do not will these things into being. I merely observe you doing so. And I do nothing to stop them, because to do so would be to thwart your will. That, in turn, would deprive you of the God experience, which is the experience you and I have chosen together." Does that mean that if everyone could remember the big picture and who we are, suffering in the world could end? Perhaps so.

"Judge not, then, the karmic path walked by another. Envy not success, nor pity failure, for you know not what is success or failure in the soul's reckoning." I've read that some of the most vital and vigorous entities in the great beyond have had a very chequered past. Apparently this is especially true for the tough hombres who go on 'retrieval missions' into dark astral zones. Gotta admire that.

The book also speaks about the original condition of God and the souls as 'all-knowing', but needing 'experiencing' before achieving true 'being'. The trinity of 'the father, the son, the holy ghost' actually meaning "That which gives rise to / That which is risen / That which is". ..."This simple being is bliss. It is God-state, after knowing and experiencing Itself. It is that for which God yearned in the beginning." Here seems to be the core reason for incarnating, voluntarily forgetting the big picture (experiencing the big separation!), and submitting ourselves to suffering. One thing to have knowledge of jumping into a pool, another to actually experience it. A bumpy ride sometimes though, to put it mildly!

It compares letting souls incarnate to letting your kids play in the backyard. "I do not care what you do, and that is hard for you to hear. Yet do you care what your children do when you send them out to play? Is it a matter of consequence to you whether they play tag, or hide and seek, or pretend? No, it is not, because you know they are perfectly safe." and "It is this dichotomy - not caring about the process, but caring deeply about the result - that comes close to describing the dichotomy of God. Yet God, in a sense, does not even care about the outcome. Not the ultimate outcome. This is because the ultimate outcome is assured."

This is a comforting thought (the ultimate outcome is assured), and I have read similar things before in books such as "A Course in Miracles". Behind all the commotion, there is a joyful secret. It doesn't stop me from really disliking suffering though, for myself or others! They are (you are) my fellow 'peeps' (peoples).

Hi you,

To dare to change yourself, as I can only talk about me and how I did to change me vs how to accept others as they are.
It is not easy for me to express becasue my English language is pore, but what I am trying to express is that to accept other as they are without trying to controll or change them, here is the tricky part, because this is so many layers issue. It is the social part the personal part and the soul part.
If I socialize with a person whom the society has classed as ”bad” they will judge me to be the same, so how can we help these ”bad” people if we judge also them who try to help them??

For me to see deeper it started to me first to stop praying, because it was an escape for me not to have to SEE the reality or the truth…so it was hard and painful to awaken to reality so to speak.

There are so many way´s to escape and the first thing is recognize my ways to escape and the real reason why I do this.

Mostly it is shame and fear, mostly fear.

I leave this issue now, because I feel it is nearly overwhealming me, I am still in beginning of my process in this ”truth” of me.

Thank you for letting me express freely. I will be back one day J

Love
Ia

Yeah, the issue of condemnation vs. forgiveness is a tough one, living on Earth.

If all personalities are 'chunks' of fellow souls, then ultimately everyone's greater self is above all this 'earthly stuff'.
In "A Course in Miracles", the message is basically that all the 'bad stuff' has no enduring reality in the greater reality. Only one passage of that massive book has stayed with me. It went something like "do not worry about forgiveness, for that has already been achieved". Wow. It made me melt! So matter-of-fact. Don't worry son, it's already done. Freedom from debilitating self-condemnation. Even now it makes my hair stand on end (like my avatar pic haha!)

For most personalities, I think the main result of a life full of mistakes is that we feel deep regret (at least after incarnation...if not during life), because we haven't expressed our true selves, and done damage. This regret makes up quite a large portion of 'past lives' uncovered during deep hypnotherapy. It is also probably largely responsible for many dark astral experiences, and inexplicable neurosis in people (a faint unconscious memory of a 'past' life).

One of the most telling stories I read about was the story of a Nazi SS officer who tormented people (I think it was in a camp). He found himself in a dark astral state after death because of his state of mind and fixed beliefs. But most importantly, a woman who had died in the same camp was so filled with hate for him, she also found herself in a similar predicament. In the account, both personalities (both the aggressor AND the victim) needed to be retrieved from their 'self imposed' exile, and given healing and recuperation.

If we do all indeed live thousands of lives, then it stands to reason that many of them would be 'clunkers'. I've read accounts of souls actually choosing to be born in difficult circumstances to experience certain things. That kind of life could go either way. A young kid born into a poverty striken neighbourhood and abusive family could end up as a merciless killer in a gang, or join the airforce or something and become a hero to and inspiration to everyone around him. Stories like this are all around us in daily life.

There was a time I felt contempt and anger towards people and society when I was younger and in a dark state of mind. With self education (and probably some help from beyond!) I was able to drag myself out of self destruction. Much later, becoming a father also made me feel kinder to my fellow peeps. The raw emotion and vulnerability of a child is not so different from the condition of adults. That helped strengthen my forgiveness towards others.

Finally, I have come to the conclusion that the only way to heal the world was to heal myself...to gain insight, wisdom and awareness. I'm always on the lookout to help others in a practical way when it crosses my path, but I also avoid getting sucked into some personalities that want to bask in people's sympathy, or that have lives totally filled with negative drama. That can be a bottomless pit.

I will also say that sometimes even a smile and friendly greeting can change someone's day...or life. I have been on the receiving end of such small unexpected communications, and it has often made my day and changed my outlook, and some have even stuck with me for the rest of my life. One that I remember was pulling into a gas station as a young man (late teens I think). Feeling bad about myself, the world, and everything. The owner came out and had a conversation with me. Nothing much, pretty everyday stuff. But I got the strong feeling of total natural acceptance from this gentleman. He also called me "champ". It was a genuine and much needed boost to me, and I doubt he knew what a strengthening effect he had on me that day. I drove away feeling all right with myself and the world again. Never forgotten it.

Yes, to heal the world is to heal yourself. I do believe too it is this way. Because the energy, the healed energy is the main thing, there is so much of ”sick” energy and need to be healed, and that is done only by the sick person, to be healed so the energy can become healthy.

Also the saying that it is too late, should be evicted from the vocubalary totally, or it is no use to help this person, he can´t be helped…This is not true. Everyone are valuable to be helped.

Keep up the good work.

Love
Ia

A further note regarding my quest to discover more about the multiple 'probable' selves living simultaneous lives, mentioned in the Seth books.

While I haven't got a full mental picture of the concept yet, one of the footnotes addressed my state of mind regarding the subject (namely, perplexed confusion heh heh!)...

"For the second time in the session, Seth referred to the chance that the individual might feel insignificant within the enormous reaches of the inner universe."

"I {Seth} am aware that [these analogies] can make you feel small or fear for your identity. You are more than a message, say, passing through the vast reaches of a superself. You are not lost in the universe."

Here are two quotes from Seth where he basically talks about expanding fixed beliefs to encompass the concepts of a multilevel existence:

"You view the fantastic variety of physical life - its animals, insects, birds, fish, man and all his works - with hardly a qualm; yet you must understand that the nature of consciousness itself is far more varied, and you must learn to think of an inner reality that is as infinite as the exterior one. These concepts alone do alter your present consciousness, and change it to a degree. The present idea of the soul, you see, is a "primitive" idea that can scarcely begin to explain the creativity or reality from which mankind's being comes. You are multipersons (intently). You exist in many times and places at once. You exist as one person, simultaneously. This does not deny the independence of the persons, but your inner reality straddles their reality, while it also serves as a psychic world in which they can grow."

"Your idea of one soul, one self, forms a significance and a selectivity that blinds you to these other realities that are as much "here and now" as your present self... ...There are, then, stratas of consciousness existing all at once. The ones you are not aware of yet seem more progressed, developed than your own. You are part of them now. You can know them as you begin to stretch your concepts of personhood and awareness."

Finally, I'll mention that I'm getting the impression that although there is a field of endless infinite possibilities in regards to the concept of parallel lives (and indeed other aspects of existence), only some of them are actively pursued or focused upon.

"In the life that you know, as given in Personal Reality, your beliefs act to specify the particular probable events that will become "real".

"You have a greater identity outside of your context, yet a part of it is inside your context, as you. Your youness is your significance, a focus of awareness, conscious of itself, that seeks out and views experience with its own unique propensities. The existence of probable realities and probable selves in no way denies the validity of your own experience or individuality. That rides secure, choosing from unpredictable fields of actuality those that suit its own particular nature."

"That selfhood jumps in leapfrog fashion over events that it does not want to actualize, and does not admit such experience into its selfhood. Other portions of your greater identity, however, do accept those same events rejected by you, and form their own selfhoods."

"Now some of you might choose some of the same events, and there probabilities will merge. Such points of intersection are highly charged and creative. These intersections can happen in individual and mass terms. One historical event may be simultaneously accepted in several probable realities, for example, while others may occur in one and not in an alternate history."

Mind bending stuff, but very interesting I think!

Heya,
Yes, mind bending stuff, this kind of stuff I do not understand, sorry.

Love
ia

I wanted to share a couple of interesting concepts in Jane Roberts/Seth's book "The Unknown Reality, Volume 1", regarding consciousness, and time.

The first, regarding time - in which Seth uses the example of a flower growing from a bulb to a full flower, over 'time':

"All consciousness, in all of its forms, exists at once. It is difficult, without appearing to contradict myself, to explain. Go back to your bulb and flower. In basic terms they exist at once. In your terms, however, it is as if the flower-to-be, from its "future" calls back to the bulb and tells it how to make the flower. Memory operates backward and forward in time. The flower - calling back to the bulb, urging it "ahead" and reminding it of its (probable future) development - is like a future self in your terms, or a more highly advanced self, who has the answers and can indeed be quite practically relied upon."
Nice!

Balanced between 'past' and 'future' influences:

"...your limited ideas of time cause conceptual barriers that operate even when you consider the structure of physical biological life.
For example: it is truer to say that heredity operates from the future backward into the past, than it is to say that it operates from the past into the present. Neither statement would be precisely correct in any case, because your present is a poised balance affected as much by the probable future as the probable past."

Seth has spoken several times (in other Jane Roberts books as well) about the nature of material and consciousness itself, blinking on and off like a strobe - or a 'motion picture' movie.

"At no time, as a rule, is your body not here to you. Your experience seems centred within it, with the rest of the world safely outside. However, the particular selectivity of your kind of consciousness rides over lapses that you do not recognize. In a manner of speaking, your bodies blink off and on like lights. Their reality fluctuates, from your standpoint. For that matter, so does the physical universe."

"Now the same applies to these units of consciousness - and to atoms, molecules, electrons, and other such phenomena. The world literally blinks off and on. This reality of fluctuation in no way bothers your own feeling of consistency, however. The "holes of nonexistence" are plugged up by the process of selectivity. This process chooses significances then, again, around which experience is built, and around which "life" is felt. The very sensations of one kind of life then automatically set up barriers against other such "world-schemes" that do not correlate with their own.

I get the impression, that to a certain degree, this is potentially how dimensions operate, each with its own flavour of universal laws that tend to keep things operating in that particular sphere, to the exclusion of others.


Although I sometimes struggle to understand how all these concepts work and what practical benefit there may be from such knowledge, I do find myself quietly pondering them. It occurred to me that it has resulted in some quite Zen-like meditation moments as I make my way through the book. I'll pause reading and consider the idea with quiet focus.

Everyone's heard of the old Zen sayings like "one hand clapping" to get into a meditative state. But what about 'memory' of the future! Or what happens in the moments when atoms (or consciousness) blinks off. Now THERE'S some great meditation material.

When I experience the past, now, and the future at once, it is so chaotic that I no way can express it in word´s or to sort out, not yet but I hope one day.But I can understand "each with its own flavour", and
when not be familar with some what you do not know or is new to you, you feel excluded....this do make perfectly sense to me.
Love
ia

In regards to my speculation about the practical benefits of exploring this knowledge, I came across these passages in Unknown Reality, that provides some clues:

"You have now put yourselves in a position where your consciousness must now become aware of the probable pasts and probable futures, in order to form for yourselves a sane, fulfilling, and creative present.

Ego consciousness must now be familiarized with its roots, or it will turn into something else. You are in a position where your private experience of yourself does not correlate with what you are told by your societies, churches, sciences, archaeologies, or other disciplines. Man's "unconscious" knowledge is becoming more and more consciously apparent. This will be done under and with the direction of an enlightened and expanding egotistical awareness, that can organize the hereto neglected knowledge..."

"...having learned to focus in physical terms, is meant to expand, to accept unconscious intuitions and knowledge, and to organize these deeply creative principles into cultural patterns."

"To do this you must understand, again, that man must move beyond the concepts of one god, one self, one body, one world, as these ideas are currently understood."

"There are potentials within the body's mechanisms, in your terms, not as yet used. Developed, they can immeasurably enrich the race, and bring it to levels of spiritual and psychic and physical fulfillment. If some changes are not made, the race as such will not endure."

In "Unknown Realities", Seth talks about "Consciousness Units" as the fundamental unit of any 'matter'. This description of all things everywhere being conscious makes me think of the Animism worldview, which says that all things - animals, plants and inanimate objects possess a spiritual essence.

"The CU's, or units of consciousness, are literally in every place and time at once. They possess the greatest adaptability, and a profound "inborn" propensity for organization of all kinds. They act as individuals, and yet each carries within it a knowledge of all other kinds of activity that is happening in any other given unit or group of units.

Coming together, the units actually form the systems of reality in which they have their experience. In your system, for example, they are within the phenomenal world."

Here Seth discusses the 'pulsing' nature of time and matter:

"They will always come under the guise of any particular reality then. In your terms they can move forward or backward in time, but they also possess another kind of interior mobility within time as you know it.

As there are insides to apples, so think of the ordinary moment as an apple. In usual experience, you hold that apple in your hand, or eat it. Using this analogy, however, the apple itself (as the moment) would contain infinite variations of itself within itself. These CU's therefore can operate even within time, as you understand it, in ways that are most difficult to explain. Time not only goes backward and forward, but inward and outward. I am still using your idea of time here to some degree. Later in this book I hope to lead you beyond it entirely. But in terms in which I am speaking, it is the inward and outward directions of time that give you a universe that seems to be fairly permanent, and yet is also being created.

The 'pulsing' allows for separate systems of reality, but also enables the sharing of energy between them:

This inward and outward thrust allows for several important conditions that are necessary for the establishment of "relatively" separate, stable universe systems. Such a system may seem like a closed one from any viewpoint within itself. Yet this inward and outward thrusting condition effectively sets up the boundaries and uniqueness of each universal system, while allowing for a constant give-and-take of energy among them.

No energy is ever lost. It may seem to disappear from one system, but if so, it will emerge in another. The inward and outward thrust that is not perceived is largely responsible for what you think of as ordinary consecutive time."

Seth also goes on to explain that the exchange of energy between all universes goes on constantly like countless, tiny black and white holes:

"There is the constant surge into your universe of new energy through infinite minute sources. The sources are the CU's themselves. In their own way, and using an analogy, now, in certain respects at least the CU's operate as minute but extremely potent black holes and white holes, as they are presently understood by your physicists."

Parallel Universes are real And Will Soon Be Testable, Researchers Say

http://www.physics-astronomy.com/201...-and-will.html