Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Just can't sort of really articulate what i'm trying to say .....
I'll just articulate what I'm trying to say and decipher what I can from yours:
When you decide to manifest something (with a specific method, not just sit around and wish) you put out your intention- and you act on it by doing whatever ritual or method you used.
If you go back and do it again and again what you are saying is "I don't trust the method, or I don't trust my ability to pull it off, so let me do it again" or, "maybe God/The Universe didn't get me the first time let me do it again". This is doubt- self doubt, or doubt that the concept is valid. Now of course, if you're doing this as an experiment to see if it works, then doubt is present and out in the open, and this is when the reminders or 'counterattacks' come in, and you deal with them as they come- in a way, this develops trust where there was not much before, and the outcome has more chances of manifesting in a timely manner.
So,
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or is doubt something more subliminal that goes undetected under your subconscious radar?
Yes
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like say your'e manifesting affluence but secretly suspect that the well-off are arrogant or snide so that dislike negates the outcome?
And yes.
And this is the most difficult type of doubt, because 'out in the open' doubt can be managed, but subliminal psychological doubt is harder to address.
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Originally Posted by
CFTraveler
but subliminal psychological doubt is harder to address.
that being the crux of the matter i feel ritualistic manifestation is more suited to me ; when you meditate on the outcome the process kind of "confluences" , i.e post-process your'e more or less inclined to wonder "well if this did come to pass how would other areas of life be affected" (i'm wondering if that too constitutes "doubt") - or if you have implicit absolute total faith in the process you might wonder if this'd be a life-changing event ; one for which you might not be ready for (innate fear of change) and if you don't engage in the procedure from the very core of your soul but instead perform perfunctorily a routine so as to satisfy/pacify yourself over the fact that your'e actively applying yourself towards obtaining needs and not just dawdling (again "doubt" is implicated) - so you see with ritualistic manifestation the chance that doubt is present and might amplify itself in the process or whatever the produce be and impart dissonance and counter-productivity is a serious concern ....something i couldn't articulate in the first post.
What i feel now is that before working on manifestation it's best to sort of "clear the area around the target" ..resolve or address subliminal psychological doubt before it "enters" the procedure and sabotage ensues.
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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What i feel now is that before working on manifestation it's best to sort of "clear the area around the target" ..resolve or address subliminal psychological doubt before it "enters" the procedure and sabotage ensues.
Agreed.
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
For me with doubts the most important thing is not feeding them with action .I let them be there if they are, they fade by themselves if i don't feed them by action .
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Originally Posted by
Giorgia
For me with doubts the most important thing is not feeding them with action .I let them be there if they are, they fade by themselves if i don't feed them by action .
i didn't understand that Giorgia ; some elaboration if you'd please ? -thank you 'appreciated! :)
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Originally Posted by
DarkChylde
i didn't understand that Giorgia ; some elaboration if you'd please ? -thank you 'appreciated! :)
Maybe is my English :redface: ,just meant that if i have doubts about something i want to manifest if i was to listen to these doubts i would act accordingly ,rushing into an action that would probably make things worse and enforce that expectation,you know the self-fullfilling prophecies ,so i just tend to ignore them by not acting them out ,i hold on to my faith and vision of the desired outcome as if it was true now,sort of ;anyway i don't have much experience with intention manifestation but this worked for me on my limited experience .
'Ignore' is my magic word .
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Maybe is my English
np - english isn't my native language either.
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'Ignore' is my magic word
gotcha :D
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
For me doubt is about not accepting something as possible or at last as probable.
Manifestation is wishing something into existence.
I wonder if you can really make something happen simply by wishing it to happen.
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Originally Posted by
Serpentarius
For me doubt is about not accepting something as possible or at last as probable.
Very true - i've always considered the "feasibility" of whatever i'm working at.Like if your target is within your range or not , i wonder if miracle is manifestation breaking free it's self from feasibility-zone circumference ; "breaking the range barrier".
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Manifestation is wishing something into existence.
I wonder if you can really make something happen simply by wishing it to happen.
Simple "wishing" lacks intent is that what your'e trying to say?
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
Doubt is the expectation of failure. We have it as a way to protect ourselves from being surprised by failure, that is, to keep ourselves from believing and basing our thoughts and actions on things that are not true.
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Originally Posted by
DarkChylde
Simple "wishing" lacks intent is that what your'e trying to say?
No, what I am saying is that I am not sure if manifestation actually works, no matter how hard you believe it, no matter how much intent is put behind it. That the question is: can you make things happen simply by wishing/believing it into existence?
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Originally Posted by
Serpentarius
Manifestation is wishing something into existence.
I wonder if you can really make something happen simply by wishing it to happen.
I disagree with this premise, but I feel that it is beyond the scope of this thread about doubt and its effect on manifestation efforts.
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Originally Posted by
Serpentarius
No, what I am saying is that I am not sure if manifestation actually works, no matter how hard you believe it, no matter how much intent is put behind it. That the question is: can you make things happen simply by wishing/believing it into existence?
I also don't see the utility of going into a thread about how to do something to say that you don't think it's possible.... it is a valid stance, and I don't mind if you make another thread about it, to avoid derailing this topic and having it possibly devolve into a belief conflict.
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
What?! That is the only kind of doubt that is relevant to the discussion and the most relevant thing possible to discuss on this thread. If you had no doubt that "believing creates reality", or however you want to put it, what other doubt is there? What kind of discussion on doubt would be possible?
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Originally Posted by
lycan
What?! That is the only kind of doubt that is relevant to the discussion and the most relevant thing possible to discuss on this thread.
I don't understand what you mean by that. Would you explain how saying something isn't possible is the most relevant thing in a thread about doing something?
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Originally Posted by
lycan
That is the only kind of doubt that is relevant to the discussion and the most relevant thing possible to discuss on this thread.
The gist of the thread is "what is doubt" not "what do you doubt".
As far as I've seen/experienced, doubt is basically belief, and that includes DISbelief. You believe on some level that something can't or won't or is unlikely to happen, that it might happen but will take a long time, that you don't deserve it, that you have to work harder to achieve it, etc. etc. etc. and on and on, but those are all dis/beliefs, and that's pretty much what doubt appears to be (in my experience and perspective). Disbelief is still belief, just in an inverse form.
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Originally Posted by
lycan
If you had no doubt that "believing creates reality", or however you want to put it, what other doubt is there?
How about, "I doubt that I'm worthy of this thing I want" or "I doubt that I'm emotionally ready for this" or "I doubt that this will happen, even though I want it"? Those are much more specific doubts, certainly, but they're not the same as "I doubt that thoughts become things" or "I doubt that my beliefs shape my experience of reality". It's entirely possible to believe that your thoughts create your reality while still believing a bunch of other stuff simultaneously about how it will or will not work.
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Originally Posted by
DarkChylde
say if your'e undergoing a manifestation regime and wonder "i wonder if this didn't manifest because i thought or did that" (whatever contradictory/antithetical thought/action it were) is that what doubt is?
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Originally Posted by
ButterflyWoman
It's entirely possible to believe that your thoughts create your reality while still believing a bunch of other stuff simultaneously about how it will or will not work.
a genuine thank-you for writing that ; bought much succor :-) -please do expound if you can on this , what appears to be an extremely interesting yet heartening paradox.
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Originally Posted by
lycan
Doubt is the expectation of failure. We have it as a way to protect ourselves from being surprised by failure, that is, to keep ourselves from believing and basing our thoughts and actions on things that are not true.
I didn't really get that , are you saying that doubt is "fear of failure" , but when someone is engaged in manifestation isn't it pre-supposed they have pre-visualized the moment/target/reward happening? (as in intent desire and clarity of need are not the issue).
Like what was discussed earlier in the thread that one should implicitly resolve doubt (or fear of failure in this case) before the manifestation is partaken?
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Originally Posted by
DarkChylde
a genuine thank-you for writing that ; bought much succor :-) -please do expound if you can on this , what appears to be an extremely interesting yet heartening paradox.
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It's entirely possible to believe that your thoughts create your reality while still believing a bunch of other stuff simultaneously about how it will or will not work.
I want to go ahead and elaborate for DC.
As I had said previously, the idea that thought caused tangible results in physical reality was not strange or new to me- I had seen it many times at work in my life, and the first time I came upon the idea as a formalized branch of metaphysics there were many lessons in how doubt can get in your way, and I was able to use it in my practice.
I would group two different categories (that are really forms of one, but I'm trying to be practical and organized in how I express these ideas).
A lot of the doubt comes from ideas you come upon in day to day reality- ideas that are not necessarily true, but at the same time become part of the mind chatter that you are constantly bombarded with-things that are not necessarily true but you still find telling yourself without even realizing it due to this constant thing.
The other side of the coin is internal- or rather, ideas you have internalized from your upbringing, and these can be varied, but can be very damaging if you are not aware of them.
I'm going to start with this one.
Most of the internalized ideas are ideas that you were exposed to as a baby and a child- when your conscious mind is 'new' and inexperienced, and accepts everything it is told or shown. Most of the things we take for granted about life came about that way, and are the basis for our personalities. There will be beliefs that may be religious or cultural- for example, if you grew up in a family that believes in original sin, the idea of inherent flaw may be ingrained, even if it goes against logic. Many people come up in religions that believe that people are "wrong" to begin with, and anything worldly or fleshly is 'bad'- so wanting a nice car and a nice home can have an unconscious resistance that may not be articulated (especially if when you grow up you disagree with the religion and feel you don't 'really' believe that- but have the programming anyway, internalized and operational.
Another example of a belief that gets in the way is the more insidious one, because of it's wrongness- and that is when a parent or parents tell children that they don't deserve love, or basic necessities, that they are unwanted and undeserving. The children of abuse (and this may be emotional or physical or both) have a lot of painful scars to work through, because they have been programmed by the very people that are supposed to give them a sense of belonging and being loved to feel unworthy. And this belief of their own unworthiness is internalized and also believed (sometimes) to the point that all they feel is pain when it comes to love, because it's what they have come to associate as a result of love.
That belief of unworthiness, coming from abuse or religion (and sometimes both, unfortunately) can cause great stumbling blocks in the ability to manifest a rich and rewarding life for them, because the deep down they don't believe they deserve them. These beliefs are not unsurmountable, we can see some that have overcome beginnings such as these, but they are great.
Another belief that is internal (once again, clarifying that these are external, but taken in at a very young age and internalized) would be the idea that none of this is doable or possible- most of the western world grew up with newtonian physics, and have been taught to separate everything and have been taught by society that anything that isn't materialistic doesn't exist. Most of these people have no knowledge of Quantum Physics (such as superposition and quantum foam) and newer ideas about reality, such as the nature of the hologram, the holographic nature of how the brain processes memories, microtubules in the brain, and other things that show that the universe is far richer and more mysterious than twentieth century science has led us to believe. In fact, every twenty years or so someone declares that there is "nothing new about the universe" to learn, and then someone discovers something amazing, and so it goes.
Unfortunately, people that are brought up as materialists also can have problems believing that metaphysics may be correct in that there is consciousness in everything, or that there is a superconscious mind, and that creation is still happening, because of the model of reality that they have been exposed to, in which anything mysterious is either a symptom of delusion or religious fanaticism. That's a belief that can be gotten over if they catch up on their science, and realize that there is more than what they have been taught in secondary school.
Of course, there are many types of these internalized beliefs, but I can group them in one of these categories.
The second group, the external-contemporary damaging beliefs are as such:
You turn on the TV, and you hear about how your inability to go to sleep in four seconds may be because of 'stress', 'restless leg syndrome', or any of many maladies that probably been invented to sell products. In other words, you are constantly hearing how defective you really are, and why you need this or that product.
If your child is spirited he has ADD or ADHD. If he is inquisitive he has 'oppositional disorder'- that is, the inability to act as sheeple- imagine a child who questions authority! So being normal and awake is a 'bad thing' that needs to be medicated. This is another form of brainwashing that we are constantly bombarded with. That we as humans are defective.
Now getting older is a disease- every day they come up with 'antiaging' this or that- that is, that the natural process of aging is 'bad' and must be overcome. So if you survive to old age there must be something wrong with you! Constant putdown, regardless of age or gender.
Then some of many other societal negative programming: If you're gay you're 'wrong', if you're a certain gender (in some countries) you're either inferior or need protecting- the idea that nature designed us to be different enough from each other on purpose turns into a 'wrongness'- sex before marriage is 'wrong' in some cultures, but if you don't get married at a certain age something is 'wrong' with you.
Societies have rules that constantly tell us we're defective or not good enough, and this is something that each of us has to be aware of to combat, so that these ideas don't become 'our truth's, because then it's one more false belief that shapes our reality.
One more way of delivery: You get your mail that tells you that you're going to go bankrupt if you don't get this or that credit card, or that you *need" this or that product to be happy, and that the state of economics is going down the tubes. You're constantly being told subliminally that you are poor, or are soon to be. Beware! Buy this, or put your money here. Or call this number now!
The last one, which annoys me to no end: The world is going to end, because the 'mayans' predicted it (they didn't)- because the Bible says so (it doesn't) and this is from the so-called spiritual community. The very people that should understand that they are creating a program of self destruction, and if they get enough people to believe this they might just get their wish.
(and now this turned into a rant).
This illustrates how ideas can become part of your subconscious programming, and get in the way of manifesting a happy, joyful, healty, peaceful and prosperous life, and your beliefs about manifesting are not even relevant most of the time. Most, not all.
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Originally Posted by
CFTraveler
I want to go ahead and elaborate for DC.
much appreciated :-)
what I feel now is that 'manifestation' itself is a facet of spirituality albeit a very commercially publicized one ("think and grow rich" et al)
Overcoming internal barriers , subconsciously placed limitations ,unconsciously imbibed childhood logic ,un-learning erstwhile modality of reasoning , literally expanding your vibrational intent and so your desired target of intent , yourself imposed worth and merit as in what you are worth and not worth of having imo* are all things and issues requiring introspective "cleansing" (for lack of a better term)
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Originally Posted by
DarkChylde
I didn't really get that , are you saying that doubt is "fear of failure",
Doubt is not an emotion. The emotion of fear is often a result of doubt but not inherent in its nature. For example, I doubt that I'll be kidnapped by aliens tonight. Meaning I expect that not to happen. There is no fear in that doubt, in fact, there is relief in it.
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but when someone is engaged in manifestation isn't it pre-supposed they have pre-visualized the moment/target/reward happening? (as in intent desire and clarity of need are not the issue).
Yes, but they may still doubt, that is, expect it not to happen.
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Like what was discussed earlier in the thread that one should implicitly resolve doubt (or fear of failure in this case) before the manifestation is partaken?
Doubt is not fear. Doubt in the process means you do not expect it to yield a result regardless of how you feel about it. If the result is important for you and your degree of doubt high, then yes, you'll experience fear, but the fear is just a value judgement that comes after doubt is factored in.
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Originally Posted by
ButterflyWoman
How about, "I doubt that I'm worthy of this thing I want" or "I doubt that I'm emotionally ready for this" or "I doubt that this will happen, even though I want it"? Those are much more specific doubts, certainly, but they're not the same as "I doubt that thoughts become things" or "I doubt that my beliefs shape my experience of reality". It's entirely possible to believe that your thoughts create your reality while still believing a bunch of other stuff simultaneously about how it will or will not work.
Doubting in "worth" is the same as not believing that belief creates reality. Doubting that this thing will happen even though I want it is the same as doubting that belief creates reality. The emotional readiness thing is more of an unsureness of what you want than a doubt, or maybe you could say it is the doubt that you know what is best for you, so ok. You could also doubt that you have enough control over your thoughts to focus your experience in the direction you desire.
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Originally Posted by
CFTraveler
The second group, the external-contemporary damaging beliefs are as such:
You turn on the TV, and you hear about how your inability to go to sleep in four seconds may be because of 'stress', 'restless leg syndrome', or any of many maladies that probably been invented to sell products. In other words, you are constantly hearing how defective you really are, and why you need this or that product.
While it is obvious that there is a feedback loop, which is primary? Do thoughts manifest into experiences or do experiences manifest into thoughts? Do you turn your TV and hear about how defective you are and then get the thoughts that you are defective, or do you think you are defective and then turn on the TV and hear it confirmed in experience?
Re: what actually IS* doubt?
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Originally Posted by
lycan
While it is obvious that there is a feedback loop, which is primary? Do thoughts manifest into experiences or do experiences manifest into thoughts? Do you turn your TV and hear about how defective you are and then get the thoughts that you are defective, or do you think you are defective and then turn on the TV and hear it confirmed in experience?
It depends on the primary input- if you heard as a child that you were defective to begin with, and then are subject to external defective-propaganda, then you already believe this and then are further influenced into believing it.
So, the feedback loop doesn't have to be obviously causated, because there are so many sources of influence.
However, if you are raised by people who brought you up knowning you are perfect (how many people do you think have been?) then it's easier to become aware of this and to fight it by all the tools necessary, and not become another statistic, so to speak.
