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What are your thoughts about what happens when a human dies physically? What changes? Where does he or she go to, what does go through? Is there any higher sense in it? Is this something important what happens, or not quite? Should we do anything while living physically about it like an objective research or something?
I suppose an Ultimate Reality, where dreams met realities already. Every meaning you ever did and will do... there's not much to it just "I am" and "be here now" would do - personality given.
Can you leave Earth without destroying Earth? Not to me, not if you ever did or will identify with It.
It is different for every soul relative to your state of development and your needs and maybe also your will.
Is there any constant there, or only variables? ...Or, in other words, do we face just our mind creations, or is there any objectiveness to that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinera
Again, I think there are no rules. Own mind creations is often happening to souls that got stuck in the lower astral (dream zone) after death. If you move on and out of this Matrix (being helped or not) then you are more free and it might be more objective in a sense that you reach some 'collective' areas, but again, you go to different 'places' so it is always subjective even then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antares
Any ideas what those "different places" are like? I'm not talking about OBExperiences, I'm talking about a being (formerly a deceased human) who is totally free from a physical body. I frequently hear, e.g. from people who use hypnosis to gain information, that the knowledge to get a full idea about the after-life world is forbidden for living people. So it seems like we have in reality a very vague idea about what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinera
But let me explain why am I asking this. I have a serious suspicion that this what new age or religious convictions tell us - that soul "must" re-incarnate and develop - might be a clever, but total lie.
I have found in births, that the only law is Love, and frankly honour does not like it... forgiveness is a beauty this way. Now, the way to realise exactly, love the law, is to have sex... I do suppose this is why people get or got famous in this generation of mine, after doing that. In other words, if you find yourself in limbo or some such, for goodness sake stay positive, original and true to everything you do believe is right. There is a way to love God at least - hence all things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antares
You mean like... those type of things https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uRnzrUOl5g&t=48 ? Or... perhaps something in that direction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDl3bdE3YQA&t=27 ? :confused: :roll: :cool: Or both at the same time (I heard that God wants it all, wether it's yin or yang, all at the same time - hence timelessness).Quote:
Originally Posted by olyris
This discussion about this conspiracy and 'loosh' and 'false light' and 'reincarnation traps' has been going in for a long while. Yeah, in the end we don't know. I would say (re)connect to your Higher Self is what helps you and you can decide on your own if you want to reincarnate or not. I do NOT believe in a karmic law as a binding obligation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antares
Recently this Farsight remote viewing about the 'death trap' is discussed a lot in spiritual forums:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IC76QuH4pE
I still believe that the Kepple/Monroe model has some validity, also due to my own experiences. That is why "Retrievals" are important to help the stuck people after death move on.
So yes, there are traps and you can get stuck. And maybe you can be deceived into re-incarnating or remaining in a 'belief system territory' (Monroe's term) or also 'false heaven' (this is how Bill Buhlman calls them).
You are familiar with Bob Monroe's, Tom Campbell's, Bruce Moen's, Kurt Lelands and Bill Buhlman's explorationary research of the afterlife areas and books or presntations (a lot on YouTube to find)? They all somehow report a bit of the same with their own viewpoint and metaphors.
My own explorations so far can confirm part of it, as I did some retrievals and have been to some of these 'areas' that might also be in part 'afterlife areas'. It is of course (as Robert Bruce explains with his catchbasket concept) best and important to get your own experiences and form your own model.
It takes to long to explain it here all in length but I recommend the books if you have not read them already.
Lastly, I strongly recommend Kepple's work and model if you don't know it yet. A long read but worth the while:
http://www.astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html
:cool:
Thanks.
In the video the man confirms the same notion as I put before, that the Earth-plane is prison. The explanation why... is something I suspected before, but now I suspect things are actually more complex than that... That man states that we loose all the memories and are diligently deprived of them - if so, then this might be interesting:
Here are few experiences that I had:
- when I was a little child, I had channeling experiences which I remembered all, as they were very intense. One of them was really interesting: I was twice asked out of nowhere by a clear male voice in the age of 4 or so "(REMEMBER) WHO YOU ARE?" in short amount of time, which terrified me then
- I had a vague glimpses of some cosmic war which I / we lost in the past, and spiritual aggression afterwards of killing the (my, others') soul(s), including our memories!
- Atlantis incident of - again - being in the end on the loosing side, against "personas" who now probably rule the world with help of / through hidden powers - and again spiritual / energetic aggression to seal our spiritual abilities repeated, this time on the Earth
There were more than that, but they possibly might state something about what is really going on...
Honestly, I would not call R. Monroe's astral journeys a serious after-life research. He was excited with discovering OBEs and the fact that there is a non-physical world out there, and his books I view as a report from those journeys. More serious study was done by M. Newton, who - to his surprise, as he claims - discovered a world of life-betwen-lives, i.e. after life. I read all of his books as well, I didn't find any direct confirmation to my suspicion, but it confirms that the judgement made on us after-life is actual (other beings, seemingly advanced, spiritually and psychologically manipulating us in getting to the point where we are judge ourselves as being "wrong" and need to re-incarnate).
So in brief, my conclusion is that we should stay distant, calm and focus on spirit - our true core, not on external in making any judgements or "needs". This refers to both, before-death life and after-life life.
EDIT: hmm interesting numerology, a coincidence? the message has been sent at 02:22 p.m. of my time zone, in 02.02 day of 2020 year. ;)
One note here to explain: I think there is more, much more to Earth than being actually a prison, than it was supposed to be originally.
Found also some unexpected confirmation from "The Edgar Cayce Primer" book:
However, the book denies the popular thesis that we have simultanous incarnations - "one soul for every body, and one body for every soul incarnate in the earth."Quote:
...the soul is judged by choices...
The readings say that there is soul entrapment throughout the universe... [but] no matter how far astray we may go, there still remains within us the pattern of and the link to perfection...
Remember, the soul not only bears [Akashic] records of the individual, but it is also an energy pattern. The emanations from the records of the soul quickly permeate every cell of the physical body and it thus becomes truly and uniquely an appropriate expression of that soul...
I also read Newton's books and I always see the common things and not the differences, so I see a lot of commonalities between his work and that of Monroe et. al.
Note that all you state about the prison planet meme is an interpretation. It can all be influenced or formed by pre-existing belief systems we hold and a kind of extrapolation or projection from our human state to the nonphysical. So I am not sure if the esoteric saying of 'as above so below' is really accurate here.
It might be a prison for the human avatar but that does not mean that you are/were forced to come here (including the amnesia which is part of the ruleset in this game). Our Higher Self / Oversoul might have a complete different overview (another term by Monroe) and it might be viewed as a kind of 'game' (maybe for educational purpose, hence the "Earth school" model which is also proposed by M. Newton and many others).
The real YOU is not the avatar (incarnate human). The real YOU is the guy behind the computer playing the virtual reality game using the avatar. Each game played is a 'field trip' incarnation. You (the real You) can maybe decide yourself if you start another game level of the same game or try another game (= incarnate in another planet/dimension) or not play at all (stay with Source).
I think people want to believe that things are as they preferred to, and as they were told. This is something common to human society, they typically don't want to consider a notion that things might be different from what they used to treat as a "comfortable constant".
I actually don't go the paradigm of "seeing more commons than differences" being a serious argument. I must admit that I also don't believe the M. Newton's research, regardless his good intents. This is due to the fact that: 1. he was forbidden to get a lot of information 2. behaviour of some guides 3. is only a report from people under hypnosis 4. uncertainity to whom he talked to 5. manipulations.
This is just really a beginning of any serious research. We cannot assume that what we are told is all truth... and what ancients were told was truth either.
The "loosh" concept actually supports the idea of things being different than the societies were told, including missing points in the M. Newton research.
Not an interpretation, I don't stick to that, it's misunderstanding. I treat it as a serious but very likely suspicion, as I wrote. So I keep mind open, and not stick to common beliefs. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinera
Sorry i don't have time to go to Youtube right now but I will clarify that... if love does not "manifest physical reality soon" it is corrupt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antares
prayer is an exception
Not meant as an argument really. Just explaining my more positive approach and where I am coming from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antares
Moreover, seeing it it all negative and conspiracy-like is not an argument either but just a kind of 'mindset'.
Both mindsets are justified to some degree but that's why I think the best approach is somewhere in the middle.
Not believing everything we are told and apply open-minded scepticism towards both sides (the overtly good and the overtly bad stories / interpretations / opinions / beliefs) seems best to me - including gathering one's own experiences (via AP, hypnosis, whatever) but we should treat them the same critical way when we later analyse it and form our current beliefs around them.
After all we could speculate endlessly about this, so 'argueing' isn't really the case here because we cannot prove it one way or the other, honestly.
:angelic:;)
Exactly. I treat this thread purely as a place to put some stuff like that: uncommon exceptions to common beliefs which may shine more light into after-life and how really is it. No argumentation intended.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinera
We cannot prove anything, hence common beliefs should not be as common as they currently are, I think. Therefore some more balance to overall convinctions is really needed.
Where such "common" approach comes from?
I think it is a result of the system of education (trained way of approaching "serious things" like researching the universe - it is just one way, but people go with the "scientific" paradigms like it was the only possible and justified way): presenting one (scientific) monotholitic system of beliefs. As you pointed out, it is not the best way, nor an objective one as well. (In short, science is not as objective as it is supposed to be).
Assuming that all there is loving and perfect (typical new age, but also common to religious, beliefs), and you may expect only warmly openned "arms" after your physical death is even worse, I believe :) It closes your mind and leads to potential pitfalls. In fact R. Monroe's and other OBE researchers' journeys actually support the idea that we are prone to meet what we expect after physical death. So once more, balancing and keeping neutral (rather than negative or positive) mental attitude is required, and as such, only an objective - universally, truly "scientifically" oriented - mental approach could face the truth without illusions where your mind creations affect your non-physical senses reception.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinera
I also find using the "conspiracy" term very misleading, suggesting that something is somehow inappropriate, thus leading (unconsciously) to sticking to common beliefs, typically. Therefore I avoid the "conspiracy" term at all costs, not treating it as a classifying way of anything, in order to not close some doors of research.
Let me explain how I see common beliefs to be like when concerning what to expect after physical death vs. what are the actual knowns:
- atheistic view: consciousness is a concidental effect of material complexity, and it (we) ends its (our) existence with the physical death
- religious view: we meet judgement after death which will decide about our future - e.g. going to heaven, hell, or reincarnate (depending on particular religion)
- (typical) new age view: we re-incarnate due to and only because of our will because we "believe" that we should go through it in order to gain certain benefits possible to gain on the Earth plane; typically we meet our families, and do not deal with / take into account any ETs activity, but simply take on few personal factors when considering another possible incarnation
Most of them do not take seriously into account possible extra-terrestials interfence on the planet / our solar system. However, people like Ingo Swann with his ESP experiences, Dolores Cannon's research of people under hypnosis, many channelings like those from Lyssa Royal or Barbara Marciniak, and many other writers and researchers, seem to present at least a slightly different, but more full picture of what is going on beyond the "obvious" physical aspect. Beyond what new age common "religion" seem to suggest.
The interesting fact is that, aside from so called "pink spirituality" beliefs, all the existence relies on energy, which was a common belief, including ancient religions, until recently. For instance, taoists had a different view on how things are after death; their quest for tao was in considerably large part aimed at gaining the consciousness after physical death, as opposed to an average person who was believed to become an unconscious ghost, just "dreaming dreams" and prone to "alien" forces, until re-incarnating once again (due to lack of energy). How different this view is from the current beliefs? Then, can we say that the current beliefs are really the ultimate ones? Or, maybe... far from that?
See my point?
Concerning the energy reliance, there is also a conviction, present e.g. in some channelings and spiritualistic ghosts invocations, that "spirits" (like souls of deceased people) need energy (as a food), and they feed on living people. Of course, the energy is universal, so ETs (physical and non-physical) are included into "nourishing" scheme. The feeding is actually a way to maintaining a certain frequency or frequency range (like in order to maintain a fear frequency range you need to get a fear-based energy from... somewhere). The question is: where do they gain energy from?
Now, is a physical food the only way to absorbing energy? If it was the case, non-physical beings would not need energy. But it is pretty obvious, confirmed also by OBE experiences, that the need for energy is actual requirement - also for non-physical parts of ourselves. Chinese people called this universal energy - Qi. It exists on all levels in various forms, from material to non-material.
When realizing fully that point, there is really only a small step into making at least a theoretical assumption that there could be an organization of beings (like non-physical, along with physical, extra-terrestials) with an intent to create a system where energy could be provided on the regular basis (and not just occassionally), just like taxes are the system of providing an endless stream of money. Should we assume that only human beings are intelligent? Should we assume that only human beings have a tendency to be "evil"?
No religion assumed so. Only modern (and rather not well thought through yet) new age beliefs seem to ignore those facts. Hence I really don't think it is an accurate way of assuming what we are supposed to face after the physical death.
Now imagine that you go to a different continent or planet, and you find there another specie - of lower intelligence or level of development, but still alive: you call them "pigs". They may look like this:
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009...22_468x416.jpg https://www.nal.usda.gov/sites/defau...?itok=uiiblg2e
Do you try to communicate with them? Like, perhaps, making some interesting discussions about the universe...? Very unlikely, I'd say. ;)
Or, maybe, you start a war with them, in order to conquer their territory? Also very unlikely.
Instead, you quickly realize that they are very good... as a food source. So you create a whole system of breeding them. They won't mind - they would even not realize it. And you want it to keep this as long as possible - to have this comfortable resource of food. No more hunting, no more occassionally found food resources, no more daily-based struggle for nutrition. You just need to keep this system of feeding, and make sure that "pigs specie" won't get more intelligent or developed than they are.
(There are certain laws of the universe, based on energy frequencies, coming primarily from the center of the galaxy, center of the universe, and from stars, particularly through the sun frequencies, which may cause DNA possibly to be re-programmed - which is a potential threat for you as an incomer to this continent / planet / system, because then the specie could develop too far and the whole system of control / breeding could stop working... so you need to not allow this to happen. If you allowed them to develop, pigs could... become equal to "us", as gods - see the Bible... You need to keep minds of pigs to be massively put under constant control, telling them how their lives should look like, how their enterainment should look like, telling them what is tabu and forbidden, giving them an illusion of choices of beliefs from a preset number of popular philosophies / religions, keeping them away from thinking for themselves, and even telling them what they may expect after death - so that they didn't do anything about it and kept "positive beliefs" that everything is going to be just fine, like meeting their lovely piggy families of deceased ones in the heavens full of beautiful angels who don't do anything but take care of this piggy farm... sorry, specie ;) ).
Keep my mind open and looking for further information.
My conclusion is, again, to maintain focus on increasing consciousness, instead of sticking to common beliefs, which - as history told so many times - were just propagated to masses so that they didn't search for anything beyond the scheme.
To summarize everything as short as possible:
wake up
possibly, the new millenium would be this transition of taking responsibility, developing consciousness and getting awareness of things beyond the personal affairs.
Consciousness is "One Thing" ...
Love is "something more".
The Lord's Prayer works indefinitely this way: "I want more time in space" and you can answer it by producing "more space in time"...
If you can't summon the pure thought that creates a new reality, it takes might.
I see love as the right pillar in the qabbalah tree; the awareness I put on the left one.Quote:
Originally Posted by olyris
Both, love is consciousness (consciousness of love), and awarenss is consciousness (consciousness of awareness).
Consciousness is grand meta-concept. :)
Thought is reality. Mind is creative tool. Mind is reality. Reality is always "new", with every change... in your consciousness! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by olyris
(Consider the idea that this is not we who move in the reality as it changes, but it is consciousness which experiences a different type of reality with every "new thought" - if you move, therefore, to the consciousness of love, as outlined in the qabbalah tree, it starts from the change in your consciousness at the Kether and the preceding levels to make this shift / change in consciousness / change in experienced reality)
It would be true to say that the only difference between
consciousness
/ \
awareness - love
in a triangle, is that awareness and love only meet during sex... of course consciousness has a "better" idea - bliss.
Beautiful picture of the triangle. Yeah, this is the universe-al way of exceeding the oppositions (dualisms) dilemma, as imposed by forces of the planets, and other celestial forces / beings, on people (as astrology shows): to get to the level / dimension higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by olyris
Of course, consciosuness of consciousness has a better idea: super-consciosness. You might be quite satisfied with this 'ultimate' answer, until you start to wonder what is on the vertex of the super-consciousness triangle?... But the consciousness then, again, is the grand meta-concept.
Attachment 2460
The green vertical line is the universe-tree trunk. The square consists of a number of triangles, most basic being two: the upper one and the lower one.
Most religions end on the trinity. Interesting fact is that the ancient Egyptian religion put more attention to number four, as the universe is incomplete without the material part ("Geb"). :)
The more I discover about the non-material Earth-surroundings, and particularly so-called lessons, karma, soul development and stuff like that, the more I can see how this system is lacking of real "bridges" which were supposed to be supportive in those seeming soul endeavours and 'its' goals - if to stick to common believes on karma. Conclusion: connect the consciousness with your physical body, then and only then you may know what the universe means (not when leaving the body, through OBE or physical death). If you made this well, this state is known from the ancient times as "eternal life" or "immortality", or simply "ankh", perfect "yin-yang" connection (also known as the tao). :)
Quote taken from here: http://factsanddetails.com/china/cat...ntry-5584.html
Quote:
Immortality is an important idea in Taoism. Because all nature is united by Tao, Taoists believe, immortality can be attained. Taoists also believe that immortality it not something that can be achieved by separating oneself from nature, like with a soul, but rather is something achieved by directing natural forces through the body, creating more durable body materials
Attachment 2461
The round part (which can be actually removed from the remaining part) of the Ankh cross is consciousness, the universal creative power. As the symbol of circle denotes, it is infinite, has not beginning and end, yet it creates all - also finite - things. It created 1 (tai-chi), 2 (yang and yin), 3 (trinity), and 10000 other things.
Maybe a better name would be "the source" - when you connect the source (of substance - of everything), you create. Then you realize you are the creator. When done this on all of the levels - from the body level / point (Malkuth, the kingdom), through love and awareness, you are multi-dimensional god - just like Ra / Re (and pharaohs who were going this path). You (Re-)create yourself - eternally. No other escape from being creator - except creating illusion of not being a creator (Ra / Re), i.e. denying your super-consciousness inherent in yourself. :)
Interesting dilemma... connect three or connect four... three is much more stable.
I would suggest that alchemy is the only connect four that can work, will only work when three are attained seamlessly. The spiritual practice being 1. recognising the philophers stone (connect 3), 2. turning lead into gold (inherit from connect four;).
You may start with the 2 vertical points: the highest (spirit), and the core, lowest (earth, grounding). It is the most natural way.Quote:
Originally Posted by olyris
Indeed, I believe the vertical phase is known as "ascension," meanwhile the latera(l)-us stone [edit: lesser or heart-stone] abides in tryst, being more or less horizontal in functionality. Hence the confusion... and resulting clarity!
[edit: for intellectual property suit agenda unknown present, i should mention that Tool has an album called La-te-ra-l_us which knows about alchemy of the more scientific "laterus stone." It's a pretty good listen. 'l' in english to me is a key that means "love" in my own thesis.]
The Philosopher's Stone itself is a crown, to me... just as in the west a king wears a golden crown, in the east the pharoah has no face of yours either. The synthesis of east-west is the synthesis of philosophy east-west... all there is to it.
Now, the Lesser Stone bears reason love's way, so I find it heart-shaped. Because there are two levels to alchemy, internal and external, you can do anything with the love of life itself. Including nothing... but then again "nothing" becomes "everything" in good time. Interesting, isn't it .
Well... Here's few thoughts :)Quote:
Originally Posted by olyris
Bit about a sacred or secret geometry. There is a triangle oriented upward, and a triangle oriented downward. When the two meet, you get something like the jewish star (where does actually this geometrical symbol come from?). 4 is, alikely, four points connected together in a specific way, thus forming the cross (another geometrical symbol, this time found in christianity).
The history of human kind gives us a lot of evidences of so many aspiring ascetics who "tortured" their bodies in order to achieve higher consciousness. This is how the triangle - without the bottom part - works. It is actually unbalanced, the yin part is missing. The whole-istic, balanaced approach is to involve all the ingredients.
I believe that trinity is a vertical thing: body-mind/soul-spirit. On each of those levels a horizontal order is also applied, typically meaning 4 (or 5 if the middle is considered) elements. Sometimes both - vertical and horizontal - seemed to be confused in the past. Balance should be achieved between all, however. People typically don't understand what balance means, what is it, and where it leads to. This is a very unbalanced society, and they pretend that the results (the Earth condition at this point) come... from somewhere else than them.
A global catastrophe seems to be near - I'd say the governments are happy with this, then they can have a justifications to their "horrible, but necessary" plans to be applied. This global way to "nothingness" (environmental disaster caused by unbalanced minds) is obvious, and people having their mind totally overwhelmed with media and propaganda cannot see where it goes.
Yes - only from a point of view of an aspiring human being to widen their consciousness or perception in its utilitary means.Quote:
Originally Posted by olyris
Using geometry as a helpful mental tool, it is a "road" in which you can move upward, downward, as well as extend, and contract your consciousness. But even gods didn't work out moving through this road, as it seems. Using this "road" for one's own (evil) purposes is possible: for instance to enslave a species (like human kind) and keep it down, propagating the idea of hedonism, consumerism etc. so that no one was interested in things like consciousness (so they remain unconscious in large part) - to sustain their own "stuck" on some levels of that "road". It is also "wise" to keep control over people beliefs, like founding an official "church", create an inqusition, and kill and torture those who don't follow their - the only possible to apply - rules.
Hence, ascension from such point of view is just a fragment of the whole picture... More holistic view I think was held by the Egyptian apprentices or Chinese taoists: the body was essential part of the whole process, not an obstacle or unnecessary "component".
The interesting idea about the world directions comes from the Mesoamerican ancient societies who believed that this is the cosmos which provides them with food! (Where such abstract thought could came from, while you could be certain that a "primitive", agricultural society thought that food just "grows", or "is born and run away" when you catch it???) They believed there are basically 4 types of food: eastern, western, northern and southern ones. It is very similar to the Chinese ancient idea of the world directions.Quote:
Originally Posted by olyris
Quote by Barbara Marciniak (Pleiadians), confirms the ancient ideas about after-life, especially what happens to them after death, also is in accord to my own observations and conclusions so far as well:
from here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R57PIKjLOkMQuote:
Some people really never get too far away from the planet and when they die sometimes they die in confusion and they come back with confusion
The planet is full of lost spirits, getting born in confusion, not for a deliberate purpose. I saw many of them: very dark area, lots of black souls there. It had a connection to... physical hospital and ill people (interesting isn't it). But mostly I sensed some very, very powerful being - not seen (everything was totally black or very dark and dim at best), but sensed. When it was far from the area, you still could sense it, but just a fraction of its power / presence / energy. But when it was back close to the area, you felt it like a worst terror you could ever imagine: power like of thousands of black suns - absolute evil. I wasn't eager to research this being, but this is what I encountered. I saw some living (sleeping) people away from that, in the edge of the light / dark barrier: everyone except me was in a big fear to get even one "step" (it wasn't physical of course) into the dark. I took just a short "trip" into darkness, indeed saw nothing except some few dark souls (this was of course when that powerful being was away, and tried to be as "silent" as possible in order to be not sensed by it)... well.
This planet is supposed to be a free will one, and so it is: you can achieve salvation, but more frequently a human gets into a slavery.
BTW in the video she / they state that all the internet and other electronic stuff like plasma tv (which according to them is a 2-way device, not 1-way, i.e. it can be turned on without your will and knowledge, and transmit the info about you to the "other side"), is a big plan to get information about the society - who achieves what, to what degree, how advanced you become etc.
Yes, to be confused about how, er, lucky you are must be a dubious way to reborn.
You are as lucky as you are actually kind - that is my theory/solution.
The main idea of this thread is to research for yourself. Don't trust the "teachers", nor the common beliefs. I don't buy the common belief that the universe has been split into 2 parts: to living (life), and dead (after-life). The consciousness should transit into any kind of experience it chooses at will, whether it's physical, cosmic, or spiritual.
If this is not the case, I used to call such a situation spiritual-mental slavery. This term means simply a prison of mind.
Mind can be imprisoned in many ways, and on many levels. One of these are common beliefs. Another is belief of what happens after death. Another is of what are we capable of achieving. And another is how the universe functions and what / whom "should" one rely on.
Maybe death is just life that has no objective proof, and the souls there just need to be re-kindled.
In alchemy they call that "the loving being" vs "the living being" it's the same, although spirit always considers the living being first. Being, is a precursor to omnipotence... only if ... the loving being is patience... the living being is strength.
IMHO, (the perception of, or concept of) death is actually a misunderstanding of reality. Death is not the same as leaving (physical, astral etc.) body at will - it happens despite the will, or in opposite to will.Quote:
Originally Posted by olyris
People believe they "need" ("have") to go "down" to the Earth, to learn lessons (t)here, and leave (die) - in order to just incarnate once again and learn some more lessons, and die again, and so on, and so forth - which I call "karma philosophy". Perhaps it is the dominating philosophy nowadays, next to the atheist philosophy (stating basically, on the other hand, that humanity is a coincidence).
While atheist philosophy could be described as being an extremal ignorance ("I don't believe in anything, so I deny everything except what I want to believe in or others told me what to believe in"), the karma philosophy is:
Wrongness philosophy vs. Acceptance philosophy (I'm just fine where I am here and now)
The after-world is commonly believed to be a place of a constant judgment. It is actually a very ancient paradigm, you can trace it back to Hindu religion, ancient Egyptian religion, ancient Christian religion (which BTW borrows a lot from previous religions, in opposite to what the Catholic church wants to admit) and many others. It just came back in a new form with the New Age movement, which took on some of these ancient beliefs.
However, I think that it's nothing else but a way of perceiving / approach to how things are on "the other side", in whatever way this "other" side could be described, or perceived. But note that in the ancient and medieval times beliefs were controlled by the priest class (dominating judgment belief), just like today's paradigms are mostly controlled by the scientific circles (dominating coincidenence-based ignorance belief).
Wrongness philosophy tells you that you are basically wrong, sinful, incorrect, not enough, evil, not qualifying, etc. depending on a particular philosophical system / religion. Acceptance philosophy tells you that you are free to accept or refuse (translating to: not think of something at the moment), if you will.
Acceptance philosophy doesn't expect any judgment. You decide - and your abilities to accept or reject. It is a matter of your will, hope, faith, and expectations. And BTW I was told recently, when thinking of the 3 essential Christian qualities (love, hope and faith), that basically faith is hope which is will which is love:
faith = hope = will = love
Interesting.
So, Right or Wrong? DM knows it well - they turned from the balance right to the balance wrong ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfiISFiozg8&t=82
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhnrrLxQEVQ&t=25
Wrongness and atheist philosophies are controlling philosophies - designed to control the masses.
If to refer to the qabbalah tree, in terms of the effect on unconscious minds, the atheist scientific philosophy is inherent in the right pillar (forceful positivity, the righteousness), and the karma philosophy is inherent in the left pillar (striking negativity, the wrongness):
The acceptance is inherent in the middle pillar, in particular in the middle of the middle: the Tiphareth sephiroth, related to the middle heart energy center. :heart:Quote:
Originally Posted by Depeche Mode
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpb4I6sSj80&t=101
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkc6TYIxNlsQuote:
Originally Posted by Depeche Mode
Love really embraced, ultimately, leads to freedom - free(ing) will and free(ing) choices. Then death looses its meaning - because it doesn't exist, it's a created illusion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjFUGHcohTE&t=99
In my humble opinion, the ancient beliefs about life and after-life as we know them are basically flawed. So are modern beliefs as well.
The ancient beliefs, like those in ancient Egypt, state that (physical) life should not be a big concern as people should expect a much better life after life; the buddhist beliefs go even further than that and claim that living in the physicality is flawed, and the only goal should be to live physicality to attain certain non-physical states; similar beliefs we find in the Christian religion which makes a big distinction between a "soul" and "body". This may lead you to a conclusion that living in the physicality is actually sort of punishment, you just don't know for what reason...
Modern common beliefs (atheist), on the other hand, basically deny existence of anything else than the physical body, implicitly suggesting that you "should" take most of the physicality without any concern in terms of the potential consequences (future events, energetic impact, mental disfunctions, missing the wide picture of the whole society, and more) - other than punishing you by the law or military revenge (thus suggesting avoiding the law and building the military power to control your resources, people included). Committing a crime is good as long as you avoid its concequences; massive crime (like those seen in the 2nd world war) may be this way considered to be an asset if you benefit from it and take advantage of it, and was possibly the biggest result of such paradigms seen in action - people like those don't ask questions like:
because in the context described the answer is always:Quote:
"is making experiments on open human brains or trying out different chemical and biological weapons when the victim is still alive and aware of that morally justified?"
The opposite way of thinking is that presented by some of the ancient and modern masters, encouraging to treat a physical body as a temple, and to listen to your own consciousness instead of external massive paradigms and leaders. Preservance, balance and harmony, then turns out to be a big asset.Quote:
"who cares?"
If you thought of death before it happened - people want to - why - there is something to bear in mind: Peace? Yes, and harmony [right - NEUTRAL - wrong] is philosophy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antares
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antares
If acceptance and wrongness philosophy beget power, neutrality (harmony) philosophy begets compassion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antares
My view is that acceptance is in the end same with harmony (except the latter is the result of the former), but not rightous-ness. Neutrality could be actually a blindfold looking for acceptance. In reality, there is no neutrality as such - without real acceptance and understanding; neutrality is a side effect then, rather than an equiponderant philosophy in itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by olyris
In other words, I'd suggest looking for a multidimensional solution (triangle with an upper vertex to be of special attention) instead of being satisfied with just a flat solution - a line with 3 dots inside (right - neutral - left). I.e. expansion of consciousness (and resulting understanding) vs. forcing neutrality.
Yes I think when acceptance/wrongness beget power, neutrality is UP.
When acceptance/wrongness beget disease, neutrality is DOWN.
And you have to choose your own adventure.
And something about the Earth and its citizens in a movie by Wachowskis ;)
https://youtu.be/s2AqR43fjAU?t=111
https://youtu.be/5Yj0qtCUIMg?t=132
What if everything we know is wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1geJGnzJ87Q&t=44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7UVfqtfQBc&t=99
People need religion, I mean really. They die - and then what?
What would keep them away from looking for immortality as the only thing to worry about (because otherwise they won't exist)?
Two things:
1. massive manipulation
2. religion
Actually, provided that religion is a form of massive manipulation, there is only 1 thing:
1. massive manipulation
Religion (and other forms of beliefs) allow them to have a hope for living after their life... somehow. They need to believe it, because they have no choice.*
Or do they?
* Human being, in opposite to plants and animals, has been given mind. Mind allows it to think about its own existence, perceive the 'time' and wonder about how things are, and whether (s)he would exist after existing for a short period of time (called 'life-time' on the Earth). Why was this? Do we really need it to keep our existence - in the Darwinian theory terms?... well, maybe we do! If we found a solution to immortality, we would never die! ;) This is why we need religion - it keeps our thoughts away from that! :)
But wait... who created religions and religious concepts? This was not Nature, was it? The Darwinian theory supports survival, and not suicidal motivations, and what religions have to offer is usually just a vague "promise", typically unsupported by anything but an authority, to live after death... so should 'we' really follow the religious and other stuff keeping us away from the survival? If Darwin was right.
I think it was pretty obvious that having the mind may only lead to thinking about existence - and how to not abandon it. But there is really no much support that Nature is about the survival of a 'specie' (whatever it is), and even more, about creating something like 'mind' - in fact, the theory makes no much sense from a purely materialist point of view. An animal, or a human being, is interested in surviving it/him/her self; there is nothing to do with the whole specie, not to mention the mind which "functions" go far beyond just pragmatical ways to finding straightforward solutions for survival. ;P Which means that a human being either is like an animal - not thinking about anything but what DNA tells him / her, like finding food, or is something much more than an animal, which allows him/her to go beyond just a short-time survival, i.e. to finding a way to keep him/her intact and dealing with 'Nature' (whatever it is) as a companion, not an actor of a spectacle outplayed being written in the DNA.
My autobiographical of religion, immortality and mind, would be that there are only a few steps to completion!
1. release all harm and feelings of that
2. love the purpose and the life it has
3. congratulations you now have an existing mind
I don't mind coming this far.
Feeling bit lazy, I decided that I would ignore the 'time illusion' and jump right away to the last point.*Quote:
Originally Posted by olyris
* this is not a joke, but absolutely serious
Possibly the biggest lie of all of the modern Catholic Church is the implicit suggestion of no relations between the physical and spiritual. This conviction is also inherent implicitly in the modern scientific beliefs.
Compare this to the original Christian beliefs:
With medieval understanding:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bible
And with the ancient Chinese understanding of human being consisting of shen (spirit), qi (energy) and jing being the basis for the flesh. Similar approach is found in other ancient micro-cosmologies, including Egyptian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hildegarda
Which is essentially the same what modern prophet Edgar Cayce stated about body and spirit.
Seems like quantum physics closes to this idea.
I wrote it already, but I'll repeat that IMHO it is better to not expect anything. In fact possibly it is better to pretend that after life does not exist provided that you keep focus on practice. This is due to the nature of consciousness AFAIK. Removing the old christian (and other) religious pressumption of "heaven for souls" after the physical death is probably the key to salvation. :)
Have you read any of Jane Robert's Seth Speaks? or her Oversoul 7 Trilogy which is based on the Seth material? The trilogy is about this Oversoul named 7 who has his own mentor to help him learn and evolve and at the same time he has these other souls that are incarnate on the Earth plane at various time periods that he connects to while they sleep to teach them. But what 7 doesn't really realize until later towards the end of the series is that each of these souls on Earth are an aspect of himself and that he's learning just as much from them as they are from him. One of the souls is an old woman named Birdie, who lived a long life and even traveled the country in an RV as an old woman with her boyfriend who was 20 years younger, has crossed over. She spends some time on the astral plane doing things as a young woman that she had been unable to do for a while and then she goes to search for Christ. She finds him at the Gods Retirement Home. She learns a lot and if I remember correctly (the last time I reread it was 23 years ago) she learned that the gods are a created human construct. After spending time in the astral planes and generally driving 7 crazy she decides to reincarnate as female againl to a farm girl and a painter (I think in Hungaria?) but this time 100 or so years in the past from her last incarnation which was in the 20th century. Her father is one of 7 students too.
The books are very entertaining and thought provoking. I tried reading the Seth Speaks and honestly, I found Seth too pompous and a bit of a douche. But I found Oversoul 7 to be the exact opposite. The books cover reincarnation and the idea that each soul decides whether to reincarnate or not and what challenges would be presented to them each time. Each reincarnation is a learning opportunity for the soul to grow and evolve but the soul decides each time.
I've read "Seth speaks", an interesting reading indeed it was for me, some years ago. I preferred that the author solely focused on the channeled material, rather than her private life, though.
Anyway, the idea that soul chooses whether to reincarnate or not is quite common today, but it was not in ancient times. This led me to the confusion. People who did OBE, like Robert Monroe or Bruce Moen, shed more light on this. For instance, check the 5th chapter in the "Voyages into the Afterlife" by the latter, where is a talk on humans who do not achieve a certain level of consciousness. Without consciousness developed, they remain unconscious after their physical life, which brings us to my theory as presented below.
Another confirmation for that comes from the "Arcturians: How to Heal, Ascend..." book by David Miller:
Ascenscion is related to having a choice (according to the book) whether to reincarnate or not. In other words, if you won't ascend, it implies that you have no choice: no consciousness to decide (to free your will), and you would pass to another human shell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcturian
How about that. :P