AMERICA'S PSYCHIC CHALLENGE

I don't know if this is quite the correct place to post this (I invite the moderators to move it to the right one and let me know where is a better place to post threads like this one)

Has anyone seen that new show on Lifetime "America's Psychic Challenge"? I caught it the other day (think it was friday). I enjoyed what I saw of it. Its kind of like a reality show styled contest, only its psychics who complete these challenges to test their abilities, successful completion of which earns points. So far, unlike alot of shows based on that same format, I didn't see alot of bickering and backbiting and trying to sabotage the competition like you see on alot of "reality" shows. Everyone got along and it was all in a spirit of friendly competition.

Two things struck me as I watched the program. One, is I was really impressed by the abilities of the psychics. The other thing that made an impression on me was something I had contemplated before, and that is, that the scientific method as we know it will probably never "prove" the existence of psychic phenomenon. Not because it doesn;t exist, but because the traditional scientific methods of trying to measure them are to me, alot like trying to count round pegs by pouring them over a floor with square holes, and counting how many end up falling through to the other side. Example:

In one of the challenges, you have 5 guys, dressed in prison garb, locked behind gars in 5 prison cells. THe challenge is for the psychic to correctly identify which one actual criminal record. One of the psychics ID'd the man with a real criminal record just fine. But here is the interesting part, the next psychic failed to identify him (and thus recieved 0 points for that round) but amazingly, on her way to get there, without even knowing what the challlenge would be, produced some automatic writing, which included some uncanny details -about- the one with the real record. For instance, a number that was the number of years he had spent in jail, or details about him having a brother who had had a drug problem. An amazing feat, to me, but she did not successfully pick the right prisoner that those details went with. I think that this illustrates how a person could clearly demonstrate ability but at the same time "fail" a scientifc experiment designed to measure it. Psi just doesnt seem to "work that way".

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Originally Posted by randall

the scientific method as we know it will probably never "prove" the existence of psychic phenomenon. Not because it doesn;t exist, but because the traditional scientific methods of trying to measure them are to me, alot like trying to count round pegs by pouring them over a floor with square holes, and counting how many end up falling through to the other side.

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I agree with that completely.

Also.... truth be told, the majority of scientists really don't want to know. Seriously. There's a lot of serious, genuine research into psychic phenomena out there, much of it peer reviewed, and still the majority of scientists don't know about it and don't care and wouldn't read it even if they did know about it. You hear a lot of "There's no scientific data to support that," but according to researchers in the field, there actually is... It's just that the majority of scientists don't want to know.

I think tests are rather pointless, why!? When you can spend your time working to improve. :) Now, tests to improve upon your abilites can be fun. Televised stufff. :S Bleh, doesn't sound fun at all.

Science has a problem when it comes to things liek the psychic world. And it's a problem they know about because they've been investigating it & telling us about it. Yet somehow they fail to look at the testing of psychics & add 1 + 1.

How many times have you heard 'the observer affects the experiment'? Science has shown again & again that it is true. And when science tries to test or prove something, they are usually setting out to make it fail. That's the attitude they require. To go into something to try to make it work is considered bad science.

Yet they seem unable to connect up the failures in strict test conditions with the fact that the scientist involved is trying to make it fail.

As has been said, there IS evidence. From the early days of testing till now, there are ongoing examples of 'interesting' results, but somehow they get ignored. There's the recent one of the phone call test for example - the math says 25% should have been the random result yet more than 40% was consistently achieved.

There's another 'fact' & that's that anyone you care to ask has had experiences that can only be psychic. Most forget them but when you ask & mention things like knowing who is calling, thinking of someone & they ring or knock on the door, another person saying something exactly as they think it etc, you get a 'Oh yeah, that happened to me.' Some have much more dramatic events in their lives.

There are two ways to prove psychic phenomena - one is with dramatic, 'can't be true' events but the other is if a large group have minor events. With a sample size probably approaching most of the planet, the little minor events are easily enough to prove there's something strange going on. (strange in a science sense)

Ya why can't science and the supernatural just get along. I mean people treat it like only one can
exist at a time. The supernatural phenomenon once accepted by science will lead to a whole new
level. However for the time being, information all over the world is filled with a lot of crap so its
really hard to tell what is authentic and what’s not. The only way to know for sure is to be out there
and experience it yourself which is why AP is so spectacular.

Personally as a real believer in the science i think the first reaction of a scientist to a supernatural
phenomenon would be pure shock, then he/she'd go into denial trying to figure out the trick to it then
1. Start to think it's dream, or it's a one time coincidence
2. Make up a theory with no foundation for which the same reason they critisise the supernatural
3. Take the closest exit to being able dismissing the whole event as fake

Arrogance/Pride will prevent them from accepting the phenomenon as it is the same as saying they've
been wrong so they won't stop until they've proved to themselves that it is false.

Which is why I find books from Robert Bruce so interesting, his approach to this supernatural
phenomenon is almost scientific. Much of his theories explain why apparently tests on AP subjects failed.

-Hibby

Its actually natural and not supernatural, so much is going on that just goes unoticed I somtimes feel silly. All the time. 100% of the time. It never ends. Like that song "Its the song that never ends, it goes on and on my friends." :)

It sucks that this sort of thing isn't taught mainstream, cuz some of the people who really study and get good cause trouble at times.

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Originally Posted by star

It sucks that this sort of thing isn't taught mainstream, cuz some of the people who really study and get good cause trouble at times.

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I'd say that's why it's not taught mainstream- imagine all the people that would be out there causing trouble for the rest of us!

lol yer, it'd be pretty hard to apply rules to something supernatural, you'd have no way of knowing if
someone was following you in the real time unless you have clairvoyance. Maybe there are secret studies
on the supernatural somewhere out there.

Actaully it used to be listed in that online Goverment library where everything that we do is supposd to be listed. I wonder what happened to it. (Talking about USA)

Ne-way when the most troublesome of people get too brash I feel that retribution gets em.

Would that be the infamous MK-Ultra?

ahh who knows whats possible. more exactly the extent of their power and just how much of ourselves they're capable of controlling.

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Originally Posted by Hibby

ahh who knows whats possible. more exactly the extent of their power and just how much of ourselves they're capable of controlling.

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Who's they?

Its not a who knows, its a spend your time working on it and learn for yourself. Like learning scuba diving. You do your homework, and if your manual is outdated you take what you know works and dive in and experiment until you figure it out. Really.

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Originally Posted by CFTraveler

Who's they?

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When i say they i mean those at the top of the world. Like is the president of the US the most powerful person in the world, or are there others out there controlling history.
Like how the media pretty much controls the general population, how do you know what you've believed in until now is really not an effect of manipulation.
Everyone or thing out there is being manipulated, its not a bad thing its just an effect of interaction. But when a single person is able to manipulate anything to extremes, is it a problem?
I don't really want to go into this because it doesn't mean anything. But i don't mind a discussion, wrong or right i'm happy to be able to refine my beliefs.

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Originally Posted by star

Its not a who knows, its a spend your time working on it and learn for yourself. Like learning scuba diving. You do your homework, and if your manual is outdated you take what you know works and dive in and experiment until you figure it out. Really.

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and just how do you know you've reached the end of the line? possibilities are limitness you can try get as close as you want but you can never be sure that that is all there is. And i'm not saying to just leave it as it is, even if we can't get to perfection we can get closer to it. I don't think my last post was clear so i'm thinking theres some sort of misunderstanding, what i really mean is stated up there ^^

Like i said before if you think theres something wrong with my ideas then tell me about it, my judgement may be clouded so open my eyes if they are.

-Hibby

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Originally Posted by Hibby

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Originally Posted by CFTraveler

Who's they?

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When i say they i mean those at the top of the world. Like is the president of the US the most powerful person in the world, or are there others out there controlling history.
Like how the media pretty much controls the general population, how do you know what you've believed in until now is really not an effect of manipulation.
Everyone or thing out there is being manipulated, its not a bad thing its just an effect of interaction. But when a single person is able to manipulate anything to extremes, is it a problem?
I don't really want to go into this because it doesn't mean anything. But i don't mind a discussion, wrong or right i'm happy to be able to refine my beliefs.

-Hibby

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I'm sorry, I really don't understand this. You asked (what seemed like) a question- I wouldn't know what your beliefs are or why do you think they need challenging.

lmao no, i'm not feeling repressed in anyway, if anything i'm happy to be able to discuss these kind of things. When i said beliefs i meant more like my theories and ideas, its just for me they're about the same things. What i said before was a response to the idea of the MKULTRA, that an organisation is powerful enough to control the presidentry of the US on a whim.

• Sounds like an interesting show. I am sure that it would annoy me to no-end. Especially the attempt to "prove" psychic abilities.
  
  I wonder if they will air it here in the UK.
  
  Blessings,