Mind Stereo/Neuroprogrammer 2

I just recently purchased both of these, and I have to say, it was money well spent! I purchased Mind Stereo first, and to be honest, while it's a very nice program, I wish I had gotten NP2 first and just stuck with it. Since getting NP2, I haven't touched Mind Stereo. I've found that brainwave entrainment seems to only work for me when I can audibly hear the entrainment tones...if it's buried within background noise, it doesn't seem to work quite as well. This may explain why I haven't had much luck with the Hemisync product.

In any case, I downloaded the user created files "Deeper Than a Zen Monk", which are supposed to approximate the Holosync system. I've only done one complete session at this point, but it was a very promising session, as I definitely felt like I was in a state other than normal waking consciousness. Not quite at the mind awake/body asleep state, but definitely operating at a different level than I'm used to.

I noticed something very interesting too...I think I hold a lot of tension in my heart chakra. While listening to the files, I noticed that every part of my body seemed relaxed except for my heart center. There's something there that isn't letting me relax completely...the area kind of felt like a bubble of tension. It was hard and unmoving, like it didn't want to let the waves of relaxation in. I got the impression that this is tied to fears I have concerning sudden death - I think on some level I don't trust my body, i.e., I continually monitor my body because I'm afraid if I leave it to it's own devices it'll stop working.

I'm looking forward to seeing what effects regular use of the program has. I definitely recommend this program to anyone who has the cash to purchase it (The home version is $49.99, pro version (which I got) is $59.99).

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

I just recently purchased both of these, and I have to say, it was money well spent!

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Definitely. I have them both and I love them. I got copies of both for my adult daughter, as well, and she's hooked, too.

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

I purchased Mind Stereo first, and to be honest, while it's a very nice program, I wish I had gotten NP2 first and just stuck with it. Since getting NP2, I haven't touched Mind Stereo.

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Interesting. I'm the other way around. I only use NP2 for a couple of specific sessions that don't work well in Mind Stereo. Otherwise, I listen to music with the BWE. I also find the visualisations in MindStereo to be quite pleasant, and it's easy to slip into a trance while watching them. I love a good open-eyed trance.

By the way, you can adjust the strength of the BWE with MindStereo if you want to have it more noticible. Play around with the equaliser and see what you can get.

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

I downloaded the user created files "Deeper Than a Zen Monk", which are supposed to approximate the Holosync system. I've only done one complete session at this point, but it was a very promising session, as I definitely felt like I was in a state other than normal waking consciousness. Not quite at the mind awake/body asleep state, but definitely operating at a different level than I'm used to.

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I did that session and it put me to sleep. Like, sitting in my chair, mouth hanging open, drooling, snoring lightly, asleep. I'm sure it was a lovely sight... ;)

Glad to hear you had better luck with it.

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

I think I hold a lot of tension in my heart chakra. While listening to the files, I noticed that every part of my body seemed relaxed except for my heart center. There's something there that isn't letting me relax completely...the area kind of felt like a bubble of tension. It was hard and unmoving, like it didn't want to let the waves of relaxation in.

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There's a session you can download that works the chakras. You might give that a try and see what happens with it.

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Originally Posted by Ouroboros

I got the impression that this is tied to fears I have concerning sudden death - I think on some level I don't trust my body, i.e., I continually monitor my body because I'm afraid if I leave it to it's own devices it'll stop working.

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I wouldn't be surprised if that's a past life issue. It sounds like exactly the sort of thing someone who has experienced one or more sudden deaths might carry with them.

I've been recommending these programs for a while now. I use them both regularly (MindStereo more than NP2, but I do use both), and I've had excellent results with several areas.

Well, I'm testdriving NP2 now, and I must say, so far I am pleased.

My first session was the Dissociated Stress Release or something like that, a dissociated session that is said to work alpha and theta levels. Not only did I generally have a good feeling during the session, also I began to see parts of a painting during it. We were at the art museum today, but this was none of the pictures there. It was as if my mind was assembling some parts for a landscape painting in there - a church in the distance, trees without leaves, maybe a painting of what I saw at one time during the train ride today? Just all these little details assembling themselves in my mind and fading away, that was interesting.

The other session was the Sub-Delta. So, I was listening to it for a while, and suddenly, at some point, there was a sudden change of body image, of how I perceived myself. It really shifted one moment to the other. At the same time waves began to pulsate from inward out through me for a short while. That was quite something, too! :)

All in all, very encouraging. 8) Since I also want to have a tool to play with these things this seems to be what I have been looking for, especially since it has export features. I kind of wished my MP3 player would support FLAC format - the NP2 people say they design their output with encoding in mind, but is that really enough? *shrugs*

Oliver

I've also got NP2, and the forums is quite helpful too.

Lately, I've been using the "Deeper than a Zen Monk", but hoping to apply some of the others when time and focus permits.

I have Mind Stereo ... It does affirmations as well as entrainment. If Mastering Astral Projection were available based on Mind Stereo (Or NP2, as the presets can be imported to Mind Stereo) rather than BW Gen alone that would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Tom

I have Mind Stereo ... It does affirmations as well as entrainment. If Mastering Astral Projection were available based on Mind Stereo (Or NP2, as the presets can be imported to Mind Stereo) rather than BW Gen alone that would be nice.

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It seems like that in the Member's Area this is available for NP2 users. Somebody analysed the MAP tracks and provided something similar at least for the first two weeks.

Oliver

I got myself the "Deeper Than A Zen Monk" and shortened it to 2x20 minutes - including the start and end ramp. With this amazing tool it actually just took me unchecking a box to affect the ramps, too, and modifying a number to scale the length of the piece, plus entering a number for the carrier frequency. Three changes, big effect. Sweet! 8)

And it worked just fine for me - put me to sleep. :lol: Now, that's not unexpected for tracks taking one down to Delta state, so this is confirmation that the entrainment works. What's even better, exactly where the track ramps out again (raises the brainwave frequency again) I woke up - and there's no annoying alarm or anything. So that was the end ramp itself. Another validation it works as intended.

I'm glad I could reduce session length to 40 minutes total. This way I can use it on the train ride, the original session length was just too long for that. The drop to alpha happened rather quickly - suddenly I felt warmer and different. It's always nice to notice these changes.

I started with a 120Hz carrier pitch, which would be the same as Holosync Awakening Level 1 as the people from that NP2 forum say, but I guess I'm gonna drop that further. Ever since I started this I had a certain number in my head, and I guess I'll test drive that one...

Oliver

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Originally Posted by Korpo

"Deeper Than A Zen Monk" [...] worked just fine for me - put me to sleep. :lol:

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Yup. It has that effect on me, too.

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Originally Posted by Korpo

I'm glad I could reduce session length to 40 minutes total. This way I can use it on the train ride, the original session length was just too long for that.

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Oh, dear, sleeping on a train.... Is that wise? (I don't like to do that because when I sleep sitting up, my jaw drops open and I tend to snore or, worse, drool... yes, it's a very lovely site, I'm sure!). :P

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Originally Posted by OlderWiser

Oh, dear, sleeping on a train.... Is that wise? (I don't like to do that because when I sleep sitting up, my jaw drops open and I tend to snore or, worse, drool... yes, it's a very lovely site, I'm sure!). :P

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Well, I don't have to look at myself when sleeping. :twisted:

Actually, when sleeping upright I snore sometimes, and right before waking up - my mind awake, my body asleep - I can often hear that. Funny! :)

No jaw-dropping or drooling. :)

Oliver

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Originally Posted by Korpo

and right before waking up - my mind awake, my body asleep - I can often hear that. Funny! :)

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Yeah, I get that, too. Or the other way around, where I hear myself start to snore just as I fall asleep.

Damn, never had that! :|

Oliver

Modified it as follows - put the carrier pitch down to 80Hz. Tested that yesterday, worked - put me to sleep, woke up refreshed and felt like "clean." Just well-rested.

Today I used the 80Hz carrier pitch, but instead of the "Stay at Delta 2.5Hz" I used the "Stay at Delta 1.5Hz". Also I used breath meditation to stay focussed - bringing the mind back from mental chatter again and again. That made me stay awake the whole session.

The drops in the ramp and from the 2.5Hz of the "Down to Delta" to the 1.5Hz "Stay at Delta" are quite noticeable. I could feel the quality of mind change as the tracks were moving down through the stages. Towards the end I felt barely awake, and more adrift.

One major problem is that my ability to focus on my breath decreases a fair deal after 20 minutes in general. I guess doing this more regularly will help with that. Dropping down through the states there were differing distractions - in the beginnigs it was mainly mental chatter. At some point also the "feeling" of images or barely visible images came up. I think this was at Theta stage, as I had this effect before. In the Delta stage the distraction was more like the incoherence in thought I get before falling asleep, when the mind seems to start to ramble and fade away.

As for the general impression of the Holosync effect intended in this session... At several points I felt warm sensations related to blocks I have. I felt the blocks, but in a warm (but not comfortable) way. Whether this means resolution was taking place is hard to say.

While the tape helped me enter different states along the wake/sleep spectrum, I somehow doubt Centerpointe's claim that this is supposed to be meditation. It is more like trance. My ability to focus or stay focussed or to stay with my chosen meditation object (onepointedness) did not improve by the tape itself IMO. Outside distractions lessened, I could in fact observe a sudden drop of outside sensory input, but the churnings of my mind did not change that much. When they did change it was down in the Delta range and I was also barely able to concentrate anymore. Probably I was close to falling asleep, and nothing else.

The other claimed effect, that the sounds trigger purification and energy cleanup in the system, yes, that might indeed be the case from what I have "seen" so far. I guess that is what happens more strongly if you are awake at the Delta (or even Sub-Delta? What is the .5Hz and .3Hz range?) states. Of course it is far too early to tell anything conclusive.

All of that under the assumption that Deeper Than A Zen Monk recreates the Holosync tapes faithfully. I do think so, for my taste almost too much. The drop to 1.5Hz is really noticeable and kind of rough. I know that Centerpointe's Holosync has these drops, too, as they recycle the "The Dive" track for every CD and combine it with different "Immersion" tracks (2.5Hz, 1.5Hz, .5Hz and .3Hz), but was it necessary to recreate that? I don't know. Maybe a ramp could have been incorporated in the second track, too.

Oliver

I've always wondered about the drops myself. Sometimes they can seem kind of jarring. You could always edit the session to ramp instead of drop, to see how that goes.

I think .5hz and .3hz are both in the sub-delta range.

I have in the meantime dropped the carrier pitch to 50Hz, and am right now loading 40Hz onto my MP3 player. This actually seems rather low, but to make sure everything was actually working right I tested it again with WAV files to make sure that the frequencies were actually playing and not being filtered out due to the MP3 encoding process.

So far it has been interesting, but if DTZM is to be like Holosync, and Centerpointe's numerous claims were anywhere even remotely in the vicinity of being true, then I must wonder what some people really get out of the program... I mean it must take a LOT of time to get even close to these frequencies. And 20Hz is supposed to be the limit of average human hearing.

I'm surely glad I did not invest that kind of money...

Oliver

Centerpointe expects it to take 10 to 12 years as a minimum to complete their program.

Frequencies below 20 Hz do function in binaurals. You just have to have the volume up higher the lower the frequencies go.

Trying to stay awake directly makes you sleepy; try being "the witness" instead.

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Originally Posted by Tom

Centerpointe expects it to take 10 to 12 years as a minimum to complete their program.

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Now, that's a revenue stream...

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Originally Posted by Tom

Trying to stay awake directly makes you sleepy; try being "the witness" instead.

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Actually, I watch my breath now and do not fall asleep nowadays. Which makes the claim of Holosync that it meditates for you or makes you meditate by itself somewhat silly, because I employ a meditation technique to not fall asleep while using it. It neither helps with becoming an observer nor with one-pointed focus, it just cycles me through trance states. I'm sure that's beneficial by itself, but meditation?

I find it interesting that the "Hemisync Meditation" CD from the TMI Mindfood series produces a wholly different effect for me. It seems impossible to go to sleep with it, it keeps me alert. I just don't know what it actually does or is intended to do, it is a bit "underdocumented."

Oliver

Hmm...I wonder if the Hemisync Meditation CD uses some beta frequencies layered in for alertness as well. Supposedly, you can't entrain to two different frequencies at the same time, but what little I remember reading about the frequencies that Hemisync uses, I think they actually do some layering like that.

Of course, I could be totally off base as well. :)

I don't think you can entrain to two different frequencies at the same time, but some sessions alternate between frequencies and that seems to work, at least for some things.

There's a downloadable session on the Transparent Corp site that has frequencies that alternate somewhat rapidly between 14Hz and 22Hz, for example. It's meant to have an awakening, uplifting effect (and it does). 14Hz is "normal" everyday awake brain frequency, and, of course, 22Hz is up in the higher Beta ranges. The session is good, and doesn't have the kind of anxiety attached to it that "pure" Beta can.

Oh, just for the record, I also really recommend Gamma sessions for uplifting the spirits. Gamma waves are associated with compassion, with the feeling of unity with all things, with joy, with bliss, etc. Buddhist monks have higher incidence of Gamma waves all the time, and while in meditation (particularly lovingkindness meditation), they have much higher and broader bands of Gamma. I've been doing Gamma sessions for a while now, and I believe it has contributed directly to the awakening process I'm in, and certainly to thoughts of love for everything/everyone.

I think I agree with Ouroboros here - Hemisync seems to do some layering.

Actually, when reviewing DTZM and what was written about it in the forums there the author recommended to use a low-pass filter (cutting of all frequencies below a certain frequency) on the sound track (bowls and rain, etc) to avoid creating accidental monaural entrainment.

Imagine having a carrier frequency of 180Hz (the default) and another sound that on both ears is some Hz above it. You would, I guess, get binaural entrainment from the difference between the both ears, but also some monaural entrainment from the difference between base frequency and the other sound. Maybe this effect is actually used by Hemisync?

I'm thinking this is the case because I found this years ago:

http://www.mind-gate.com/OBE/sound/7117.html

This is in German, but what it does is this: For each Focus state it describes how many tracks you have to overlay, what the carrier frequency is and what the beat frequency.

Focus 3
59 [1.2] = r 59,6 + l 58,4
110 [1.3] = r 110,65 + l 109,35
288 [3.7] = r 289,15 + l 286,15

So, for Focus 3 you need three tracks: 59Hz carrier, 110Hz carrier and 288Hz carrier. Now you overlay them with beat frequencies of 1.2Hz, 1.3Hz and 3.7Hz respectively, resulting in the listed frequencies for each ear respectively.

I don't know why they do this (if they actually do this), but I've read before that people made tracks that overlaid different brainwaves - for example Gamma or Beta on relaxation sessions.

Oliver

In English: http://www.actlab.utexas.edu/~jmorris/docs/focus.html

Oliver

Another German site states in what they call "The Robert A. Monroe" story that Bob Monroe used multiple layers/beats per track and figured out about 50 working configurations for this.

Oliver

I bought Neuroprogrammer 2. Its pretty confusing. im thinking maby a isochronic 55hz will help raise shakti

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Originally Posted by reikilove824

I bought Neuroprogrammer 2. Its pretty confusing.

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Try the forums at the Transparent Corp site. They're pretty interesting, and you can get direct and specific answers to technical questions about frequencies, etc.

Also definitely go to the downloads area on the TP site and download some of the user-submitted free sessions. Some of those are utterly fantastic.

is it possible to have a 55hz iso tone?

I don't know. Like I said:

http://www.transparentcorp.com/community/forum/

Ask in their support forums. You're much more likely to find someone there who can answer (in fact the lead developer hangs around in the forums there, or he used to).