H there I know this is a horrible thing to be taklking about

[farewell2arms]

that you think that my response comes from someone who hasn't himself been there and done that amazes me. it reveals one's sense that they are all alone in a grandiose spiritual battle. yup, i did just that my very self, and looking back i can clearly say without doubt that i was nuttier than a fruitcake from the outsider looking in perspective.

Would you like to elaborate more on this? I understand Raz's post from a logical point of view, and yours from an intuitive viewpoint. If Raz doesn't want to take further discussion here, could you send me a pm?

cheers,

F2A

[Razzalot]

Hey Tim,

Much love my friend . Your reply was calm and kind and collected, thankyou for that.

Perhaps there is a place we can find middle ground. The more I work at it, the more I find that trying to get embroiled in any combatative approach with this thing, is ineffective or even counterproductive. The act of attempting to fight, too often merely places attention on the dark mind, which is itself unwise. In fearing it, the mind is drawn again and again to its presence, when it is so much better to draw your mind again and again to the Divine that lives within and without. All the commanding "begone from me" exorcising stuff, or even semi complex self-exoricism stuff, at best does nothing useful, and sometimes is very counter-productive. It is much better, to maintain a state of peace, pure Being. I do not give it permission to stay, I do not accept it, and although often the mind has felt like a battleground, I am not interested in fighting it. That said, it is sometimes necessary to resist the dark urges or feelings, better yet to find a way to burn them off. There are technicalities here. Perhaps in your case, you simply did not fight any more, grew as a person, until it literally dropped off, having no more hold on your mind. But I am not budging on the fact that it is seperate to me, all the evidence points to this . I was attacked as a toddler, terrifying experience, I have a friend who has suffered horrendous nightmares since at least the age of 3, etc etc. My reality is not threatened by your perspective, I have far too much experience and have seen far too much to consider it is "me". At least, any more than the concept that all consciousness ultimately flows from the Divine. Our consciousnesses are like overlapping venn diagrams, so it comes through you, feels like you, in a way for a time is you, and yet can still think and plan as a seperate being from you, and can certainly be seperated completely from you.

What I most worry about, is that you will tempt people into trying to integrate the dark consciousness, and that they should go through what I have been through because of it. My experiences are not the product of my own imagination, nor are my friends experiences, I promise you that . And I am fully with you, the harder the driver of a rationalisation, illusory arguments of the mind, the more surely that argument will be blinkered from anything which flows against it. But the mind is still useful for navigating reality. I understand this very clearly, but in this case, what was driving me to correct you, was the pain of my experience, and the slight tint of anger that your words, well meaning or not, may induce such experiences into others. Plus perhaps a little of the old intellectual combatative rubbish that I am in the process of dropping .

But please, I beg you, dont try to make people integrate the dark consciousness. Ignore it and not fight it is fine, but do not mistake it for a necessary part of you. It can be removed, as such it must, whether through outgrowing it or otherwise.

Rob

p.s. Oh - apologies for assuming you were coming from a channeling perspective, it just seemed to fit

[Tutor]

that you think that my response comes from someone who hasn't himself been there and done that amazes me. it reveals one's sense that they are all alone in a grandiose spiritual battle. yup, i did just that my very self, and looking back i can clearly say without doubt that i was nuttier than a fruitcake from the outsider looking in perspective.

Would you like to elaborate more on this? I understand Raz's post from a logical point of view, and yours from an intuitive viewpoint. If Raz doesn't want to take further discussion here, could you send me a pm?

cheers,

F2A

well...F2A, i guess the assumptions have been a flyin is all. I was saying there that I myself have been there and done that, have thought I was alone in a grandiose spiritual battle over my soul, and that from the perspective of someone else looking in at 'me', I am sure they saw me as nuttier than a fruitcake.

I am also happy with Raz's logical and practiced points of view, as i mentioned so.

this is touchy stuff F2A. i think i will just let it go for now.

tim

[Tutor]

Raz/Rob,

is what i am always saying. that the "darkness" does not have to be. that all should, could and will be light.

look at our world today, the war on terrorism for example. the best reports on mission health is that the one thing that we've done is to splinter the defeated larger groups and insure a future where terrorism is a unavoidable fact of life.

like this, is our within first. what we fight we feed that it grows stronger, because it as we would fight fire with fire. one thing becomes many things in such a modality of unresloved intent.

i write with an analogous approach, and it cannot be taken in definitive worldly terms where 'friend' means somebody that's your yes man for whatever falls out of you.

wars are fought with allies sharing the same accord, yet every ally has a hidden agenda toward the outcoming win.

losers get nothing but occupation and dissolution of their cultural roots.

so, there ya go, if one is in the battle and loses, then they must be prepared to be occupied such they lose themself to it.

to prepare to win is to be prepared to lose? for certainly you seem charged to win, having no regard whatsoever for peace talk within toward befriending an enemy.

us human beings with our free wills have the choice to have faith in one true god, much less to believe to any degree. but, it is written, that the lowest natured dark entitys do not deny the truth of one true god, they neither giving to it faith or belief, for it is an unquestionable certainty to them.

how then, being human with such uncertainty, does a human win such a battle against such certainty, despite the fact that these are entitys of darkness?

but, like you said, it is not worthy of further discussion. but, friend, the danger of even discussing it is something in and of your own minded reason of it. reason, such as the world's reasoning is an endless pursuit, a world without end where reason leads to reasoning more reason.

however, if one merely has that belief or faith the size of a mustard seed, it is sufficient. that is a 'line' beyond reason that i have certainty in, for my faith is no stronger than the attitude of any given day. i am human and i need the latitude of mercy and grace.

i pray on it Rob. but, i dont prey on it.

i am careful about what i dwell on, or in, or of. it just makes sense.

i will be careful to stay out of your way bro.

tim

[Razzalot]

Quite so, I have no right to go around attempting to deconstruct other peoples realities. Thankyou for this extremely timely reminder.

I am glad you got something from my first post at least, and glad we can at least agree on some things with regards to the second.

Peace

Rob