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Thread: barriers to expanding consciousness

  1. #41
    sleeper Guest

    Re: barriers to expanding consciousness

    Quote Originally Posted by Tutor
    Quote Originally Posted by sleeper
    Quote Originally Posted by Tutor
    Sleeper,

    what person, place or thing...being named is not from the nameless?

    even as we, being below, refer to this 'nameless' as "the above".

    yes, yes, yes, yes...ad infinitum. right on Korpo.

    tim
    is the nameless such because it is beyond names, or because it had no parents to name it?

    is 'tim' a fish on sleeper's hook? no

    your question reveals that the term 'nameless' is beyond your current understanding, simply because neither question nor answer approaches 'nameless'.

    the apparent nature of you or I is sufficient for understanding 'nameless'. my name 'tim' means nothing without understanding, yet with my nature understood also am I named 'tim'. thus has 'tim' awakened as everything from and to, yet that zero point which from and to do come and go is 'nameless'.

    no one can know 'nameless', yet everyone may understand 'nameless' through them self understood.

    the 'real' query here for you is 'you', and is not, "is the nameless such because it is beyond names, or because it had no parents to name it?"

    what is your name and is your name truely yours through a nature understood truthfully?

    i've barely got a bead on who is me, much less who you are. we can share this mystical wonder, or we can be questioned at every turn of a word until it becomes an inane intellectual experience where nothing intimate survives.

    it's your party however, and the participants are getting thirsty and wonderin when the pizza is going to arrive. your move....

    tim
    I'm not trying to hook you; i'm trying to have a discussion with you. i simply wondered what your conception of "the nameless" consisted of.

    But more importantly: why would you criticize anyone, ever, for asking questions? do you chastise children as well, for their curiosity?

    i don't pretend to know anything - but i try to make it clear that i'm very interested in learning from others. if you're willing to share what you know, i'm willing to listen.

  2. #42
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    Re: barriers to expanding consciousness

    well sleeper, neither do we pretend to know anything. that was the point of what i wrote to ya.

    your approach is like dropping coins into a slot machine that knows something. look...., it's all speculative, and we share the speculations reaped from our own experiential evidence. that is all we got, just like you.

    we are all children in that regard, formative of maturing speculations. i cant see where i criticized you at all, and if it seemed as such, what is wrong with positive criticism.

    my intent was to grab your attention, not to myself, because i am of no particular importance. but rather, so that you might see yourself, your attention on you.

    listen, a conversation is not a one sided interrogation, last time i checked. so i turned the question to you, to with, ask yourself. your answer is as good as mine, or mine isnt worth anything either. in that sharing of speculations we might together arrive in a conversation. ya reckon?

    look, your questions reveal that you are very intelligent, that you really wish to understand the topic in a more mature way. i am merely trying to get you to see yourself in this thread, to see how brilliant you are, that you've got an intelligence that can adequately formulate just as good a speculation as anyone else.

    i cant speak for Korpo, but "yes, yes, yes, yes and some more yes" is the sign that says, dang! i'd like to catch my breath here amongst the treadmill that this thread feels like.

    so, read correctly, my reply that you felt was criticism for you, is really me saying, "I havent got a clue, what do you think it means". like i said, "your move".

    but you are welcome to criticize me, of course. i see your point. i guess i am an old fart that's rude to children. man, that's a harsh reflection...but there it is, read em and weap.

    think i might go join CPW on the splintery wooden bench, after all. youth, everybit wasted on the young. i was young too, once, ya know?

    tim
    I Don't Ever Give Up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktpTyT1Wj_I

    "I'm no fighter, but I'm fighting, this whole world seems uninviting..."

    Avatar: Passion Baby!

    Making Love Out of Nothing @ ALL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyFsyC4LqK4

    Az for Me, of my Self, I am Home

  3. #43
    sleeper Guest

    Re: barriers to expanding consciousness

    Quote Originally Posted by Tutor
    your approach is like dropping coins into a slot machine that knows something.tim
    that's true. i don't want to treat people like slot machines but i do want to engender an eagerness to share their knowledge, wisdom and kindness with me. so i /poke them until i get what i want, them sharing their personal bounty, i guess.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tutor
    you've got an intelligence that can adequately formulate just as good a speculation as anyone else.
    I'll never accomplish my life-goals on my own. i have placed tremendous faith in other people and try to honor that faith by placing my weight on their shoulders. I don't want them to pack me around, but i'd like them to help understand our shared human condition, solve our collective and individual problems, and share with me insights about things that i haven't even formed questions about yet. We can speculate, but i am confident that what you, I and others have to offer is more potent than speculation. what we share together is very valuable, a treasure of great worth, the ability to discover, create, explore, share stories, and know the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tutor
    i'd like to catch my breath here amongst the treadmill that this thread feels like.
    well. at least you didn't call it a mouse wheel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tutor
    what do you think it means
    I think that the nameless is our way of acknowledging that our language is inadequate for describing anything complete in it's wholeness. our language, as you know, can break ideas into infinitesimally small pieces, but it can not put them back together, it can not describe wholeness.

    So everything complete in it's wholeness is also nameless. for now...

  4. #44
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    Re: barriers to expanding consciousness

    Quote Originally Posted by sleeper
    I think that the nameless is our way of acknowledging that our language is inadequate for describing anything complete in it's wholeness. our language, as you know, can break ideas into infinitesimally small pieces, but it can not put them back together, it can not describe wholeness.

    So everything complete in it's wholeness is also nameless. for now...
    i like that.

    yet, with all the water dispersed around the earth, we can see the oceans connective of Ocean, and we've only begun to investigate this body of water as something other than an obstacle requiring a crossing. i read a few days ago a headline that said, "we know more about the moon than we know about the Ocean.

    in an odd way, i think this unknowing of our Ocean is synonymous with our unknowing of Spirit, despite all the philosophy/religious oral/written 'language' given toward it.

    i wonder have we sought religion as the compromise with Spirit as obstacle, much like our relationship has been with the Ocean. I see simularitys in these two relative to man.

    personally, i think that neanderthal man was one with spirit. that native american, aboriginal australian....etc, all these were one with spirit, and that when met by religion, like spirit as obstacle, were in the way.

    just my general thoughts...

    tim
    I Don't Ever Give Up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktpTyT1Wj_I

    "I'm no fighter, but I'm fighting, this whole world seems uninviting..."

    Avatar: Passion Baby!

    Making Love Out of Nothing @ ALL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyFsyC4LqK4

    Az for Me, of my Self, I am Home

  5. #45
    sleeper Guest

    Re: barriers to expanding consciousness

    tim,

    those are good thoughts and i broadly agree with you. I often think of how much better my spiritual practice will be once i'm feral in the woods - listening to the binaural beats of nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tutor
    yet, with all the water dispersed around the earth, we can see the oceans connective of Ocean, and we've only begun to investigate this body of water as something other than an obstacle requiring a crossing. i read a few days ago a headline that said, "we know more about the moon than we know about the Ocean....in an odd way, i think this unknowing of our Ocean is synonymous with our unknowing of Spirit, despite all the philosophy/religious oral/written 'language' given toward it......personally, i think that neanderthal man was one with spirit. that native american, aboriginal australian....etc, all these were one with spirit, and that when met by religion, like spirit as obstacle, were in the way.
    I believe that our society's failure to notice what's happening all around us while staring at the cosmos is a racial problem. I think it's due to an over-abundance of Caucasian people (i'm Caucasian by the way) in power. white people seem to have a propensity towards hyper-intellectualism at the expense of their planet, their family, their health, etc. and they tend to intellectualize religion and spirituality (look at Ken Wilbur, for example).

    so I often wonder whether aboriginal peoples were somewhat more spiritual because of how they lived, who they are, or because of the interconnection between the two things. the reason i bring this up is because i wonder whether I have a problem with religion, or a problem with the way that white people do religion.

    Either way, for me, it comes down to a question of values. What do you value? what do i value? what does society value?

    I value the subtle and delicate relationships in nature and in us people. I value human potential and hard work. i value rest and relationships.

    That means that i value Grandparents and little children; strong men and supportive women; religion and spirituality, everyone coming together in the evenings to rest and to share their stories. I look forward to a day that society values those same things as well.

    But every day, our production-based society cares more for the economy, for transportation, for law, for space exploration, for public services. and so many people are for abortion, euthanasia, inmate labor camps, dormitories and broken home families. our society fears strength and virtue; loves energy drinks and hates rest; and rarely spends time together without a TV or sports game involved.

    so my opinion is that the problems we face are myriad, but they are problems that we can easily overcome with effort.

    ~dale

  6. #46

    Re: barriers to expanding consciousness

    Well, this can be summed up to this:

    Limits:

    the differences between those are:
    philosopher: f(not known) = what is going on (p) - concludes from "what ifs"
    scientist: f(known) = what is going on (s) - ignores "what ifs"
    pracitioner: f(not known) = what is not going on (p2) - runs away from the unknown
    mage: f(known) = what is not going on (m) - focuses solely on the unknown

    Beyond limits:

    god: f(p, s, p2, m) = limitless

    Conclusion:
    watch your thoughts from the beyond.

    Be objective, research the reality and don't assume things just because of experts


  7. #47
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    Re: barriers to expanding consciousness

    It's interesting that a thread from ten years ago is so apropos today. Nothing has changed.
    https://linktr.ee/CoralieCFTraveler
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