Meditation and sleep

[Chris]

i think a trance is continuously going deeper and deeper, while a meditation is hovering in a desired deepness for a period of time. Im totally talking out of my ass, but im using what i have heard over the last two months and some experience.

Meditation at it's core is relaxed focused awareness. A focus is used to keep the mind clear through observance (such as a mantra, breath, visualisation, music etc). Meditation is never forcing to keep the mind clear, it's simply letting go of distractions and returning to the meditation object repeatedly. Over time the distractions become less and less. Forcing the mind clear can suppress a lot and seriously impede progress.
Trance is more a deepening state of relaxation, one can experience trance through meditation, but one doesn't need to be meditating to experience trance.
As you go deeper into trance, quite frequently you'll find your mind wanders, or gets caught up in hypnogogic scenarios. With meditation one returns to the object of meditation even with the distractions of hypnogogic hallucinations etc.

If I meditate before bed, or do some form of visualisation/consious altering technique, I find I can't sleep afterwards too.

[The_Musician]

meh i dunno... i sleep fine.. its just projection i have a hard time with. it really is hard to hover in the body/sleep mind/awake state.


and thanks for correcting me. i didnt know that.

[Aunt Clair]

i think a trance is continuously going deeper and deeper, while a meditation is hovering in a desired deepness for a period of time. Im totally talking out of my ass, .

...and what he/she said

lol , that's cool I've heard that language for years from some special people in my life so much that I reckon I am bilingual , hee hee . .. I can understand it implicitly

Meditation tends to develop in a predictable continuum . It can be quantified by the duration , the quality of visuals , the quality of auditory feed back , the ability to project within the meditation , and the level of trance .

Duration
Neophytes
may find 5 minutes keeping their mouth and their eyes closed taxing or impossible .

Aspirants
sitting at home alone should aim for 15 minutes of silence and quiet mind once they have mastered the 5 minute plateau .

Good meditators
will require a minimum of 30 minutes for a good session .

Experts
can meditate for hours at a session and can slip into trance when needed during the course of their day stealing moments away from waiting in queue time for example .

Quality of Visuals in a hierarchy from easiest to most desirable
I saw nothing but I felt peace
I saw one thing it was ___(insert indigo , blue or violet here )
I saw this symbol and it meant this to me
I saw a few things and I think it was a message
I saw an object which turned into another object and then this happened
I saw so much it is hard to recall it all , I remember three messages .
I saw a spirit and they showed me this and I think it meant that .
I saw a lot it will take me 3 paragraphs to write it up so I will read it to you when I am done , let the others go first .

Quality of Auditory Stimulus
I saw this spirit they did these things , I feel they were saying this .
I heard a voice in my head , was it my imagiination ?
I knew what the spirit was saying but I could not hear them .
I heard a name ! I think the spirit meant it was their name or
I heard someone call my name I think it was my grandmother .
I could see the spirit speaking but I only heard 2 words .
I understand that the spirit's message was this because I felt this , I saw them do this and I heard this .
I heard a few sentences this time !

Projection
Can Mentally Project Consciousness at will but falls asleep sitting up .
MPs, sees a bit and then it becomes a blur.
Can project consciousness to a place and stay within the meditation to recall their travel fully.
Can project to Astral , RTZ or 5th Plane
Can project above the 6th plane .
Can project at will to any place they have already been .
Can project with a group and see each other there .
Can project in a group and bi locate consciousness to give off ( speak about ) what they feel , see and hear there while maintaining a light trance .
Can project with a core image , a name , or a energy link of some sort to any place they wish to will .

Trance
Can not achieve a trance state of consciousness
Can achieve a light trance briefly in the middle of a 30 minute session
Can achieve a light trance in about 5 minutes
Can achieve a light trance at will
Can achieve a heavy trance , has difficulty moving limbs and returning to the body after re -entry feels disoriented can't recall anything .
Can achieve a quality session in a heavy trance and can recall the lessons taught by evoked spirits or teachers that appear
Can achieve a quality trance state immediately at will , can project and bi locate within the heavy trance and still be able to recall an hour session
Can achieve a heavy trance and can recall at will , may be able to invoke a teacher or contact higher self guardian angel , or trance mediumship where another voice projects from their own .This is a risky procedure and many will refuse to try it which is sensible .

Basically a trance state allows the quieting of the mind , the freedom from distraction to focus on the now and see the messages revealed by higher self and spirit teachers which will begin to appear spontaneously to those who sit in regular trance meditation . A trance may be induced by deep cleansing , raising full energy for your state of energy body at that time and by sitting in the power of the now . Breathing techniques are imperative to learn to slow down the breath and the pulse and to not slow it down so much as to hear a gasp for breath which will awaken self and others unfortunate enough to be in circle with you , lol . The body that sits in the power position will enter a trance easier than one who lies down as this often ends in falling asleep . Elbows on knees , chin on hands and slightly bent forward at the waist in a comfortable chair will work well . Better is to sit nearly upright the palms out and up the arms rested on the arms of a padded chair the feet slightly apart and resting squarely on the floor . These are ancient positions and they work . The 'throne ', 'warrior '. 'now' and ' power' seat are all names for similar positions .

Here is a technique to enter trance meditation ;
http://www.astralsociety.com/as/Forum/i ... 343.0.html

[Freawaru]

As usual I will have to disagree about the terminology. You describe trance, Aunt Clair, it has nothing to do with meditation. Meditation is not about clairvoiance or recieving visions or guidance, nor about planes or bodies, but about transcendenting the self. One primary goal is detachment (kaivalya) from the karmic self. All this spiritual devellopment and trance teaching is - for meditation - a hinderance and distraction.

When your goal and teaching is to devellop the person spiritually it is just that: devellopment of the person. It keeps the illusion that you ARE the person in the first place and even strenghthens it. Meditation on the other hand returns you to detachment from this illusion towards Liberation. All true meditational "states" are always independent of everything created and karmic. It cannot be develloped as it is eternal, unchangeable.

[FlickeringThoughts]

In my experience with meditation, (and occasionally some chakra work before I go to bed..) it hasn't lost me any sleep so far. About the only affect I have noticed is very vivid dreams. It might have something to do with I lay down when I meditate, I'm not sure. Probably deepening my brain waves as I'm laying down makes me more prone to something when I finally fall asleep, which happens quite often, when I don't mean it to. Sometimes I get so relaxed that I just snooze off. But the sleep is always good.

Kevin

[Freawaru]

Hi their, I've recently began to do meditation/trance on a night time, usualy just before I go to sleep (though I dont lie down) as this is mainly the only time I can practive this without being interupted.

A night or so ago I did this and found it quite hard to get to sleep right after, even though I expected myself to be tired, even before I began trance. I had a very restless nights sleep, waking up multiple times in the night, very unlike my usual sleep cycle.

Could this have anything to do with the trance/meditation as I dont want to make this mistake again and miss out on further sleep. I recall hearing that the Delta brainwave state makes up for a certain amount of sleep, though im not sure how this would interupt my sleep cycle.

Thanks for any help.

In my experience energy work (NEW) does relax and makes me getting into sleep more easily. It also makes the dreams more interesting and increases lucidity.

Meditation techniques on the other hand wakes me up and I stay awake for half the night. But I succeded a few times with mindfullness meditation (observing your mind while it switches from wake to sleep) but it is tricky as one needs to keep the concentration while unfocusing the mind.

I have not tried trance directly before going to bed so I do not know if this provides a problem in general. But, personally, I do not want any spirits talking to me while I want to rest, so I keep this excercise for the waking hours until I can reach the lucid dream state intentionally.

As I've said before, I disagree with everyone's distinction's between a trance and meditating. I think it's semantics. They are the same thing. Maybe this makes it more clear:
Trance = Meditate
Trancing = Meditating
Everyone's experiences are different. I'm not asking anyone to agree with me on this. I just thought I'd put it out there. Many of you are going by what you are experiencing personally. Many are going by what they've been taught. I am going by what I was taught, experience for myself, and what I understand my clients are experiencing as a hypnotherapist from their descriptions. I work with varied people every day, teach them "self-hypnosis/meditation". Then, they report back to me their experiences. I see absolutely no differences between trance and meditate. They have similar experiences no matter what I call it.

When they slap an EEG on you, the paper chart generated doesn't differentiate between terminologies. It differentiates the different levels of consciousness. The brain does not care what you call it, it just does it. This measure is OBJECTIVE.

The way you interpret what you are experiencing is SUBJECTIVE. Thus, the differing uses of terminology. Now, some may say that the brain is different from the soul. Yes, the physical brain is an objective, physical organ. But, no one has discovered where consciousness lies in the human body. Many believe it does not even lie in the human body. So, I will use the term "mind" to equate with the terms "spirit" and "soul", although, undoubtedly, some will disagree with this. So, I ask you, what is mind then? An EEG is measuring what the neurons in the brain are doing as they are firing. This is physical. But, it is also giving us a clue as to what the mind/spirit/soul are doing on a physical level. An EEG cannot "see" into your mind and know what you are experiencing subjectively. But, it has been used to measure people in trance or meditation, and there are no differences in the patterns of consciousness.

Ooo, after re-reading that, I sound like I know what I'm talking about. But, the truth of the matter is that I believe that the terminology is decribing the same phenomenum. The word "meditate" came from the East, and the word "trance" came from the West. Old versus new. We, as humans, always like to rename things and imagine that we've dreamed up something new.

[darkrealmz]

[quote=Aunt Clair]

i think a trance is continuously going deeper and deeper, while a meditation is hovering in a desired deepness for a period of time. Im totally talking out of my ass, .

...and what he/she said

Meditation tends to develop in a predictable continuum . It can be quantified by the duration , the quality of visuals , the quality of auditory feed back , the ability to project within the meditation , and the level of trance .

Duration
Neophytes
may find 5 minutes keeping their mouth and their eyes closed taxing or impossible .
[/quote:38x1prvu]
I'm a neophyte, and i managed it for 4 hours Yet my lack of concentration increased with the physical plane as time passed. I got the old pins and needles, it was hurting me to remain stationary, But as for my stomach, face, legs; all except the feet and hands were deeply relaxed.
I simply could not move and i felt weighed down by a ton of bricks. I think this is what should happen, however i felt i couldn't sustain it. I will try again, hopefully falling asleep.

[enoch]

I always thought trance was the total elimination of thought and meditation was one-point focus. Maybe not.

Hi Enoch,
If trance was the elimination of thought, then hypnotherapists would be out of business! That is the terminology most use, and clients have to be actively experiencing and communicating with the hypnotherapist for a successful session.