Lucid and Silly and a Blue House

[Korpo]

Hello, E1B.

You must have reasons why you think the an image is identical to having been in the astral. But it's like this: Even in my experiences sometimes there's the notion of myself creating the images so I can understand what happened to me and my consciousness. It's a process of translation.

Why would you think we can't go beyond the astral? Where's that from? Is it because Blavatsky used the term "astral" no matter what nonphysical state she described?

Cheers,
Oliver

[eyeoneblack]

I must confess I may be overly dogmatic about this astral/mental stuff. These beliefs formed so long ago it's hard to think just who I was reading and when but much of it must have come from Leadbeater - didn't he write Man and his Bodies or something like that? His book The Inner Life was very influential.

You've read some of his stuff, can you recall his take on astral and mental? Actually, I welcome a distinction within the astral such as an astral-mental to help us better talk about nuances in our experiences but the notion that to venture into the Mental Plane would preclude any experience with 'things' is pretty hard-wired in me.

Wasn't it Socrates who held that there is only one tree, for example; the ideal tree as a pattern for all observable trees which are merely copies and variations of the one tree as an idea? Whether it was Socrates or Plato (I'm in the process of moving and my books are in boxes) this may be an apt metaphor for the Mental and Astral planes. The way I see it, if one were to venture into the world of ideas, the Socratic World, there would be nothing observable as nothing has been created yet and to me, that is what I expect of the Mental Plane. I can't imagine what the IDEA of a tree would look like. Maybe it would 'look' like some humongous formula . We can't actually say it would LOOK like anything because once it looks like anything at all it has been created from the idea.

Another area of study that has been tremendously influential on my 'world view' is the Cabala (as you are aware). We have a sephira which is recognized as the sphere of the Astral and that is Yesod which is positioned directly above the sphere of the Earth or Malkuth (see my avatar). Notice that Malkuth is sitting there pretty much by itself, it is not in direct and dynamic interplay with any other sephiroth - not a member of a triad or trinity. That is because it is merely the receptacle for what's going on in Yesod or the Astral. I like to say that the Physical world precipitates out of the Astral world like rain from a cloud.

Up and to the left of Yesod is Hod. This is the sphere of Mercury and it is said the practical sephira of the magician - where he does his work. This aligns well with the Socratic world of ideas, perhaps. Odd, I've never attempted until now to map the mental and higher metaphysical worlds onto the Tree, but Hod may be representative of the Mental plane on a microphysical basis. We have entirely separate Trees for the Material, Formative, Creative and Archetypal manifestations of Reality which align nicely with the Physical, Astral, Mental and Causal planes but on a macro basis.
Oh, I'm testing your patience I'm sure so I'll call it quits here. But I hope you get a feeling for my perspective on the metaphysical worlds and especially my take on the Mental plane.

[Korpo]

Hello, E1B.

A.E. Powell has summarised many books from early theosophists, and produced separate compendiums for the etheric, astral, mental and causal body. You can read them online:

http://www.austheos.org.au/clibrary/bindex-0.html

The system is rather clear, let's limit it to the lower three planes, the physical, the astral and the mental plane. In this system the physical and etheric bodies derive from the physical plane, the astral body from the astral plane, and the mental and causal bodies from the mental plane.

The distinction you mention is between form and formlessness, which is at the "boundary" between lower and upper mental plane. The lower mental plane is a plane related to concrete thought and form. The upper mental plane is the domain of the causal body and is related to formlessness. This upper mental plane would be the place where the ideas reside, the causes or templates for the many concrete objects on the planes below.

There are very interesting examples there of how a clairvoyant would perceive the energy of an idea from the upper mental plane touching the boundary and instantly coming into thousands of different forms. This is but one aspect of it, and not all there is to it.

Human beings, however, have a need of translation for such experiences. So, any experience of coming into touch with the upper mental plane would be rendered into an understandable experience, and for example represented as a story with start, middle and end, even though this is merely a way to represent what is not describable in language.

I do believe that access to all these places is possible. This is all part of human evolution, in service of the soul.

Cheers,
Oliver

[eyeoneblack]

Thank you for your time and effort with this, Oliver .

Human beings, however, have a need of translation for such experiences. So, any experience of coming into touch with the upper mental plane would be rendered into an understandable experience, and for example represented as a story with start, middle and end, even though this is merely a way to represent what is not describable in language.

I couldn't agree more.

Bottom line, I've discovered just how old-school I am . I'll be taking measures to correct that. I wonder if Leland's Multidimension Man is availabe yet.

Blessings,

Richard

[Korpo]

Yes, it is.

Cheers,
Oliver

[eyeoneblack]

bought the book