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Thread: Sinera's Lucidiary

  1. #11
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    Re: Volgerle's Lucidiary

    Quote Originally Posted by Volgerle
    I wonder WHAT kind of body (according to e.g. Yogic or Theosophic theory it could have been) that was with such 'abilties'. It still must be a body that is able to "manifest" on the physical/astral plane (as I still - and only - saw the surgery). Causal, buddhic? I would like to ask Kurt Leland about his view on this but it seems he is no longer in this forum now. He also talked about bliss-experience in higher bodies, but he (and the Theosophists) says that the higher of them not usually "worked on" or "went down" to the lower planes.
    You did say «usually»… Surely, one would not usually use a car to go to the corner store if it’s a 5 minutes walk. But let’s say you need to go somewhere else, somewhere much farther, because you think you have an important appointment that day, you might take your car then (or a train, or a plane...) …before realizing that you need to go back after all, since you learnt that the appointment was postponed meanwhile...

    More seriously, as for what kind of body that was... Again, I'm not an expert, but surely it's possible to have a «mixed» experience combining «abilities»of two types of bodies, or more likely, combining caracteristics of one type of body on another type of plane, etc. Actually, Kurt Leland do say that something like that is possible (as for the different body on a different plane), and Robert Bruce do mention that some experiences appear to be «mixed».

  2. #12
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    Re: Volgerle's Lucidiary

    Yes, he has said that in many of his works. I believe he does say it in Multidimensional Human.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Volgerle's Lucidiary

    Hello, Volgerle.

    Regarding bliss - according to Kurt bliss manifests most strongly when you get much closer to Source than you usually are. That is one way to experience bliss or even ecstacy. It fits very well with your surprise at the vividness of everything.

    The inner senses most prominently active in this experience are probably vibrational touch (the communication) and immersion (the intense vividness of the experience).

    One possible explanation could be that you never before had experienced your astral body so vividly, fully immersed and with that degree of lucidity. The information exchange with the other person hints at the astral body - you describe it as if feeling/emotion was the "carrier medium" of that exchange.

    The ability to exchange information through feel/think (how Kurt calls it, NVC in Monroe-speak) expands during developing the astral, mental and causal bodies. It's an unfolding. With the mental body you learn to translate exchanges into pictures, and with the causal body you absorb the information in a more direct way. Think of Robert Monroe and his ROTEs. They demonstrate his increasing ability to absorb and understand instantaneous information exchanges. Kurt classified that level as mental and causal in the introduction to his new book. That would be taking the vibrational touch to the next level and developing the information sense.

    The second scene could have been a switch to another energy body - with less active inner senses. This would explain the strong contrast with the earlier experience - grainy vision, less input from the inner senses. I wouldn't exclude that this could have been the etheric body. The bodies need not be developed equally. I think the quality of not caring either way has also been reported from NDEs. Usually the bliss comes afterward, so you might be right about the order of recall.

    So, in total my first guess would be you were in your etheric and astral bodies. The astral body is a very powerful vehicle which allows for rich and detailed experiences, but it depends on its development and the degree of immersion. When you have lucid dreams, you usually have a well-developed astral body to begin with.

    Cheers,
    Oliver
    Looking for assistance in sorting things out in your life? My intuitive friend Robyn can help. http://intuitivebalance.weebly.com/

    My blog: http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/blog.php?1595-Korpo

  4. #14

    Re: Volgerle's Lucidiary

    Korpo, yes, etheric body for the second scene could indeed make sense, it cannot move far from the physical body - 'astral cord length' they say?

    Thanks so far to all of you for your comments.

    The next instalment will be my first deliberate exit success - and I can promise there are some other nuts to crack, too . Looking forward to your views on that one, too.
    This collector of useless clutter.

  5. #15

    Re: 21/Nov/2009: First Exit (Brutal Spine-Waves, Kundalini?)

    21/Nov/2009
    First Exit (Brutal Spine-Waves, Kundalini?)

    Mid-November, two months on, what had happened in the meantime? Well, not much. But I read a book.

    Only a week after the surgery, I browsed Amazon and probably by some (divine? / higher self?) intuition instead of searching for books on NDE, which would only have been understandable and which I also did at later points in time, I typed 'out-of-body' into the search field. (Btw, Astral Projection was not a term I knew a lot about then, I heard it but did not even relate it to OBE, but rather to sth like dreams, a kind of clairvoyance or even meditation (all of which is not even entirely wrong, of course).)
    Almost naturally, Buhlman's book "Adventures Beyond The Body" (in German it is even "Out Of Body") came first. I bought it and read it. I was absolutely astounded how "simple" it seemed to be and that you could really "walk" through your living room as a non-physical being, and all that not just when you were "near death".

    I did the induction exercises (combined visualisation/tactile practice and affirmation). Only after a few days of finishing the book and starting the practice, very early I had those talked about "energy sensations" during the night: I heard strange sounds, remember a lifted stiff arm (I think Buhlman also mentions it in a list of possible 'events') and had inner 'energetic' jumps and movements - all while in bed sleeping or in hypnagogia or when waking up from it. I knew now I was in for more.

    This lucadventure might be categorised as a very classic RTZ-OBE. However, and that makes it interesting, it is 'framed' by a lucid dream conversion and a postlude False Awakening (semi-lucid) dream. So we have 3 'classics' in one pack. (After an NDE-type experience 2 months prior to this, I now already had received a huge bag of non-physical experience ... not so bad for a first-timer, huh? )

    1) Dream Conversion

    I dream that I am flying a familiar street of my old hometown uphill, approx. 3 metres above the ground, which leads to the street of my parent's home. In physical life, I have went and cycled (as child and schoolboy) and later driven it up with my car countless times.
    However, suddenly one thing really strikes me then. Not the fact that I am flying. It is rather the fact of HOW I am flying. I am making swimming movements (breaststroke). I notice that this is so utterly stupid and funny alike. Why am I SWIMMING through the air instead of 'normally' flying? At this very instant, this observation literally TRIGGERS my exit sensations, and something starts that I will never in my life forget.

    2) Out-Of-Body exit / RTZ-projection

    The view changes drastically. I am lucid. And I see the ceiling of my bedroom. Strange thing is that the room appears to be with the light on. I see everything clearly. I am lying on the back (unusual for me) and I also see one arm lifted (again!). It is stiff, I cannot move it, it is fixed up in the air. I also don't really feel it, it is like an alien part or an artificial limb attached to my (otherwise also paralysed but still 'felt') body. But I also don't want to change anything about it.. I want out and I know it has started now. "It" is, besides my new view, the 'energy sensations' I feel.

    However they are NOT the famous 'vibrations' at all. I did not know these vibrations then. Only later I did. Today, I know them well, of course, and I can say that this was VERY VERY different! Those WERE NO VIBRATIONS at all!

    Sorry if this bores you now a bit, but I need to try to give a description as detailed as possibly, becausee I have a suspicion now of what it could have been, which I could not have known either then or during the following days and events, due to a lack of knowledge about these matters. I will enlarge upon my question later in the Comments section, but now first my attempt to render a detailed description of what I felt and then mistook as 'common vibrations' (what a joke from today's POV). I have, so far for me, not read ANY account on exit sensations here or elsewhere that has stated anything similar to this, which makes my inquiry even more urgent now as it was then:

    As said, those 'energy sensations' were nothing like vibrations. Those were BALL-LIKE WAVES along the SPINE. Heavy, violent and almost disruptive as it seemed. Not from head to toe but only through my torso (neck to lower intestines / genital area). I cannot conclusively remember anymore if they went up-down (from neck area on downwards) or vice versa. It could have gone either way or even with a changing of directions.
    I did NOT feel any pain. Just movement. Possibly I heard roaring, crackling, sizzling, rustling sounds which more or less correlated with the intensity of the wave-balls' movements. One wave going through my body lasted possibly 1 - 1.5 seconds. The 'low-tide' intervals probably 1 to 2 seconds on average. Sometimes the intensities varied. I tried to give it a graphic expression here, you see it is not absolutely regular, intervals for the pauses (-) as well as for down- or upward moving wave 'blobs' (O, o, 0) vary:

    --O--O---o----O---0--o---O--O--o--> (time direction)

    There are two words I would like to use to describe the whole movement: Orgasmic/Ejaculative and Peristaltic. But all that without the respective body feelings (unfortunately in the first case ).
    So it was as if my torso would have been a great GIANT PENIS at the very moment of ejaculation or a part of the digestive system while it's transporting and processing its content in peristaltic muscle movements.
    Another good way to compare it to would be strong electric jolts, but again and - in this case fortunately - without any feelings, just the "movement".

    Again just to give an impression on what is meant by 'peristaltic' (mostly used in connection with pumps or the human digestive system), consider it like this, but only much much faster (1 wave-interval per 1-2 second or so):


    This video shows it even better (still, again: much too slow, though):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cEwVdA8_qs

    So I hope you get the idea of what I went through - or better: what went through me - then.

    And I was and still am sure it was 'not physical' at all. (How could it be ??! This is not the nervous system. I also should have felt pain then, I should have been bursting into parts! Any scoffers should explain it to me or better try experience this for themselves, and then they will admit: "this stuff is f***** real!")

    What is even more strange, and it makes me marvel about myself (and I am not a warrior-type of guy!): I stayed completely calm. I let it happen. Maybe there was a kind of attitude involved telling me sth like "hey, you begged for it, so here we go, now don't complain and grit your teeth and get to it!". Maybe it was still due to my hypnagogic / trance-like state. But why did I not get out of it?
    And that is not the entire story. I also endured it (knowing that it would ease off soon) because it was somehow FAMILIAR. It is a "I've-been-there-before"-feeling. But why and how? Discussion see below.

    After it waned (or even when it was gone completely, not sure anymore) I started to lift. Possibly the subconscious reason for my lifted arm then was that I wanted to use it as a kind of 'launch ramp' all the time. That's another hint to a strange familiarity .. as said, this was my first conscious and deliberate projection, I had not done this before.

    So I went out and the first thing to note is: The room was dark again as I slowly soared to my room's ceiling. I looked ahead then for the short time I looked at the wall and ahead again, the ceiling (immersed in darkness now again) before me.

    It should be noted, I also had a strange voice when talking to myself shortly (or "thinking aloud"), it was somehow vibrating, sounding high and modulated (not the human-like female voice, that's a different story again). I don't remember anymore what I said to myself then, possiby some "oh"s or "ah"s only. That, however, again, was not orgasmic either.

    Now the next funny thing: I stopped at the ceiling. And I did not know what to do. Then the idea to just "turn around". Turning around of what? Of me. But what is me? I have no idea if I had a "body" then because I had not paid attention to it/myself. I was just a cloud or point of consciousness during the whole exit.

    Then I just "turned around" (no, it seemed I did not have the purported 360 degrees vision, I really shifted somehow). Looking down where me in the bed should have been I first only saw darkness. Then I concentrated (thinking also about BUhlman's short commands such as 'clarity now' or 'vision now'). After a while I could see a figure lying there on the side (not on the back). After a while I also could make out the face clearly. It was me. I looked pale in the darkness, almost a bit like a moon face.

    But you know what striked me most about this, even today when I remember it (and which is possibly also responsible for the moon face appearance)? The kind of picture that really clings to my memory now that first comes to my mind when I remember this event, making this an almost iconic representation of this whole lucidventure:
    The very weirdness of SEEING YOUR OWN FACE WITH CLOSED EYELIDS. I looked so 'strange' (in a double sense) that I even did not clearly recognise myself for a second because of this 'alienating' view. When do we see ourselves with closed eyelids? Logically, we don't in mirrors. On photo snapshots when we were blinded by flashlights or on surprise snapshots possibly. But "live" at the same instant? This picture sticks with me, probably for the rest of this life! I will never forget the picture of that guy that is me down there in the bed 'asleep' with closed eyelids. Even today, I count this experience among the top-ten of strange sensations and experiences of my adventures.

    After I had 'identified' myself without the slightest doubt, which was otherwise not so difficult since all was 'realistic' and there were no dream imagery or reality fluctuations involved, I decided (wisely and as recommended for newbies) to cut it short and 'go back' immediately. I just went down, which was then much faster than going up.
    However, before I re-integrated, another remarkable observation. First, for a split-second I saw my face 'close-up'. Secondly, I heard my breathing (exhale) - but different, as if still somehow from the outside.

    3) False Awakening

    I got up and went into the bathroom. I passed some time there, also looking at myself into the mirror. All looked normal. I reflected on the things passed now. I was happy at my success of 'astral projecting'. Then, only after quite a while, I thought to myself 'hey, why not go to my parent's bedroom now, and wake them and tell them what happened?'. Then I realised what a strange idea this was. (Possibly it was caused by the dream I had before about flying to my parent's home). Why did I say that? I was an adult now and I had not live with my parents in their home for many many years now. Then I realised that I was still dreaming and woke up.

    Comments / Afterthoughts:

    First of all, sorry, I will keep further posts on lucidventures much much shorter. I just felt the need to enlarge upon this, since it was my first 'projection', and due to all those circumstances and detailed memory. Therefore I restrict this section (although much more would be to say for me here) only to the issues of FAMILIARITY and KUNDALINI.

    The issue of FAMILIARITY with those waves amazes me even today. Perhaps, in our super/sub-conscious memories and as reincarnating beings, we all "know" this already since it is similar to what happens when we die. Or perhaps I had/did this as a child in this life and just don't remember. Or I was a keen projector in a previous life. Or Perhaps I really only thought that THIS were the famous vibrations I read about (what a joke!). But today I know there were NO VIBRATIONS. Those were different. I had only one further experience like this a few days later. After the again-violent exit it failed due to exit blindness and fear issues.
    Fear issues also kept me from going on then. I read more books on the topic. Monroe's first book actually increased my fears, it was so different from Buhlman's optimitic take on the issue. Then I read Bruce's Astraldynamics and while I did so, I sometimes had the feeling that I was falling out of my body in waking state! That was enough for me! I actually decided to have a break of a few months, not trying anything. I needed a rest (who should blame me after all that, I had my proper dosage, after all)? So I slammed the door shut again at the end of the year and I did not have any experiences (Sometimes I even affirmed "I stay inside my body" before sleeping!).

    Maybe someone more experienced in this matter can answer this. Recently I came to suspect that it might actually have been a KUNDALINI-like experience (note the added "-like", please!). Here, people also report on spine-related 'snake'-like heavy energy sensations. If you look at the video I linked, you see that 'peristalctic' movement is indeed pretty 'snaky' if seen from a specific angle. But they also tell of body cramps and even danger of life. I did not feel this way although the waves also had a 'crampy' aspect to them. Of course, since mainly the torso was affected, it is highly likely for me that the energy was using a 'channel' that leads up/down the physical spine through which the 'awakened' energy was streaming in brutal thrusts of different intensity.
    I could so far not really bother to dig deeper into the topic of Kundalini. If someone can tell me it is NOT Kundalini-related, I am fine. I wasn't keen on any Kundalini-experience so far. And if it was Kundalini, well, so be it, but I am even less keen to live through this again for understandable reasons. Two times is enough and I am happy in the end that later (according to logfile starting Feb 2010) I discovered that 'vibrations' are something very very different from that!
    This collector of useless clutter.

  6. #16
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    Re: Volgerle's Lucidiary

    Hello, Volgerle.

    When raised energy flow happens it often pulses around blocks. Think about a cartoonish garden hose running water. Now imagine stepping on it - a bubble builds, like in a Bugs Bunny cartoon. Only that in case of energy usually the flow can give sensations like pulsing or flutter, or recurring activity.

    The spine and center channels are closely linked to the activity of the chakras. This seems like a waking up of the circuit, clearing it out a bit to enable heightened activity. The project reflex and moving into deeper trance (for example during meditation) tend to induce such spontaneous energy flows.

    Cheers,
    Oliver
    Looking for assistance in sorting things out in your life? My intuitive friend Robyn can help. http://intuitivebalance.weebly.com/

    My blog: http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/blog.php?1595-Korpo

  7. #17

    Re: Volgerle's Lucidiary

    Quote Originally Posted by Korpo
    This seems like a waking up of the circuit, clearing it out a bit to enable heightened activity. The project reflex and moving into deeper trance (for example during meditation) tend to induce such spontaneous energy flows.
    I see, I had a similar idea, too. It's a kind of initiatory thing, after all? The very first cleaning-out of the pathways, perfusing / drilling / boring through the central channel and thus linking the chakra points? That would explain why I only had this thing happening to me the first two times and (fortunately) never ever after. Still, is there anything 'kundalini-like' about it in your opinion?
    This collector of useless clutter.

  8. #18
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    Re: Volgerle's Lucidiary

    Hello, Volgerle.

    I don't speculate about Kundalini anymore because I don't know what that actually is. What I see here is the self-regulation of your energy body at work. Sounds like a really good thing to me.

    Cheers,
    Oliver
    Looking for assistance in sorting things out in your life? My intuitive friend Robyn can help. http://intuitivebalance.weebly.com/

    My blog: http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/blog.php?1595-Korpo

  9. #19
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    Re: Volgerle's Lucidiary

    A very interesting post, Volgerle!
    Sorry tough, I can't say anything deep about it... I am really not accustomed enough to projections or kundalini.

    However, I do feel strong «energy waves» that may be akin to what you felt, although I don't think I ever felt anything that strong. In my case, it seems to be building up little by little. When I first had these, they were kind of gentle, but they are stronger now, as if I had chosen to build up the energy body (and/or to clear blockages on the path) in a progressive manner (gently first, more strongly now that I can handle it more) instead of clearing it massively in one sudden violent burst of energy (or two in your case), something I would have been likely to abort out of surprise and fear if it had started happening to me back then... Interesting to see how these things work differently from one person to another!

    I also mistook those waves for vibrations at first,or for some kind of light exit symptoms, since I get them sometimes when I am laying quietly on my back in bed. I guess I will also change my mind if I ever come to feel those classic strong vivrations everyone talks about!

  10. #20

    Re: Volgerle's Lucidiary

    Quote Originally Posted by poème
    I also mistook those waves for vibrations at first,or for some kind of light exit symptoms, since I get them sometimes when I am laying quietly on my back in bed. I guess I will also change my mind if I ever come to feel those classic strong vivrations everyone talks about!
    Interesting. That means you still did not have the 'normal' vibes at all, so far? Do you have these (slight) spine waves always when projecting, meditating, or really just lying on bed (as you say)? Or do you get lucid through dream conversion (without any exit sensations and all that fuss)?
    This collector of useless clutter.

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