purging the subconscious

[sleeper]

Prob. a day late and a dollar short, but here's mine anyway:
Hmm, I agree that a lot of what's in the subconscious is 'outwardly influenced- not just by media and culture, but also by upbringing. But I don't think it's necessary to 'remove' anything- just to be aware of where these things come from is enough.

well, in my work with kundalini etc. i've identified modern media as a barrier to success and so i'm working on that portion of my project and exploring it somewhat.

like i said, i'm just now working on it so i don't have a concise answer as to why it's a problem but i do have a general idea which might sound dumb to me later. modern media seems to occupy so much space in the mind of whoever watches it and use up BOTH so much mental faculties/resources AND spiritual energy (in those areas) that it the bodies energy becomes sluggish because the mind directing it is weak. I'm talking about myself here; i've gone through this plenty of times. Furthermore, in order to raise kundalini or experience samadhi, soma, amrita, the final astral projection, etc., tremendous available energy is required.

i've made the mistake of making major strides in mediation, then taking a "video game break" or "movie break" and when ive' come back, i was WEAK and didn't know why. now i'm taking strides forward in finding out the details.

keep in mind (you probably already did) how people often 'go on retreat' before attempting serious energy work; and it becomes difficult to distinguish between all of the interlocking results and their effects; i.e. fasting, sensory deprivation, manifestation, encouragement, deadlines, peer pressure, etc. the benefits of the sensory exclusion might manifest at a similar time as the benefits from fasting, or from the assiduous hard work.

so i'm taking a practical and pinpointed approach to this roadblock to success. i'm just throwing this all out there because i'm curious what your reply may be!

I do think that we need the color and interest that images give us- whether it's a 'fairytale princess', 'centaur', or 'monster'- all of these are cultural expressions of archetypal energy and useful for descriptive purposes.

you're an advanced meditator so i can't help but ask how the fairytale princess, centaur and monsters compare to the akashic records; how waking life interest compares to lucid dream interest; how the tv compares to the vision screen.

whaddya think?

Even scumbag politicians serve a purpose.

i don't agree there. sorry!

Like CW, it's a 'chicken/egg' situation- I always had that awareness of memory influences in my thinking- but what meditating to trance did for me was to experience objectively these subconscious influences- instead of trying to figure out why I do 'x' or 'y' thing, I can meditate and 'look' at it as a spectator and then decide what to do with it.

how essential is trance (in your worldview) for viewing deeper (or previously subconscious) thoughts?

First I identify the program itself, then find out where it came from, then I debunk it. The act of shedding light on where it came from does the debunking, but if necessary, I analyze it for logical flaws, and usually that does it for me.

You're welcome, C.

is the debunking process natural?

does it have a kind of flow, where your subconscious presents the thoughts to you?

or do you do the scrutinizing less intuitively and more logically, perhaps not even during a meditation session?

which do you think would be more effective, the intuitive flow vs. the logical scrutiny? or would you word those differently?

thanks!

~dale

p.s.- anyone who wants to take a shot at the above questions are welcome! i'd appreciate it.

[CFTraveler]

I need to come back to this with more depth, because my health is in the way of my articulateness (see? ) but I don't want to leave it too long and forget it. So forgive my half-assedness in this answer:

well, in my work with kundalini etc. i've identified modern media as a barrier to success and so i'm working on that portion of my project and exploring it somewhat.

I agree, anything that shifts the focus outwards will make it more difficult, media just seems to try to get your attention even more than 'regular everyday stuff' because it's designed to get your attention.

like i said, i'm just now working on it so i don't have a concise answer as to why it's a problem but i do have a general idea which might sound dumb to me later. modern media seems to occupy so much space in the mind of whoever watches it and use up BOTH so much mental faculties/resources AND spiritual energy (in those areas) that it the bodies energy becomes sluggish because the mind directing it is weak. I'm talking about myself here; i've gone through this plenty of times. Furthermore, in order to raise kundalini or experience samadhi, soma, amrita, the final astral projection, etc., tremendous available energy is required.

Makes sense, because it also focuses on your emotional energy, not just the mental. All that desire and outrage, etc.

you're an advanced meditator so i can't help but ask how the fairytale princess, centaur and monsters compare to the akashic records;

The akashic records is pure information, and sometimes only retrievable if it has personal relevance- but if it's too abstract to understand, then it won't be as readily shared as information that's encoded in symbol. For example, some information will be technical (some people get plans and stuff like that, make the mistake of thinking it's 'literal' information, and later on find out that the information was accurate, but not understood accurately- so it's essential to understand how the symbology works to be able to share it with anyone who may benefit from it.
All forms are ways to show a concept, ways to understand a concept. If you are diligent about maintaining an 'inner discipline', you will eventually create your 'symbol dictionary' and be able to understand much more than what would be just pure information at another time.
Or something like that.

how waking life interest compares to lucid dream interest; how the tv compares to the vision screen.

That's a very complete question and I need to come back to it- you could say that one reflects the other, but that's eminently debatable.
IMO the TV screen is the reflection of what some writer or producer puts out for others to see- so in a way it's the insight to someone else's head.

i don't agree there. sorry!

That's ok. Most of the time I wish they didn't exist, but if they didn't, how would we picture pure evil? (That's a joke, I'm winding down).

how essential is trance (in your worldview) for viewing deeper (or previously subconscious) thoughts?

About as essential as essential gets.

is the debunking process natural?

It developed naturally for me, but I don't know if this would be true for everyone- it may be a 'right brained/left brained' thing.

does it have a kind of flow, where your subconscious presents the thoughts to you?

After initial work, yes.

or do you do the scrutinizing less intuitively and more logically, perhaps not even during a meditation session?

Depends. On some days I do more intuitive work, other times I have to 'sit to think', and rarely I meditate on things like this. I usually meditate to get the answer to a problem, not to think about it.

which do you think would be more effective, the intuitive flow vs. the logical scrutiny? or would you word those differently?

I think they're complementary, and you start with whatever feels more natural to you. I tend to do both, my brain takes turns being dominant-or something.

thanks!

~dale

You're welcome, C.

[sleeper]

I need to come back to this with more depth, because my health is in the way of my articulateness (see? ) but I don't want to leave it too long and forget it. So forgive my half-assedness in this answer:
I agree, anything that shifts the focus outwards will make it more difficult, media just seems to try to get your attention even more than 'regular everyday stuff' because it's designed to get your attention.

Makes sense, because it also focuses on your emotional energy, not just the mental. All that desire and outrage, etc.

i hope you get well! let me know if it's something that i can help with!

maybe if you were less articulate from time to time it would let us know you're human! so it's fine to do.

i'm trying to work my program (that we've discussed via pm) into short effective bursts, which is the primary reason i'm writing this. in other words, i'm trying to find out what kind of assessment tools would work for people to identify which obstacles are in their way and how to overcome them before beginning the main portion of the program e.g. energy raising.

The akashic records is pure information, and sometimes only retrievable if it has personal relevance- but if it's too abstract to understand, then it won't be as readily shared as information that's encoded in symbol. For example, some information will be technical (some people get plans and stuff like that, make the mistake of thinking it's 'literal' information, and later on find out that the information was accurate, but not understood accurately- so it's essential to understand how the symbology works to be able to share it with anyone who may benefit from it.
All forms are ways to show a concept, ways to understand a concept. If you are diligent about maintaining an 'inner discipline', you will eventually create your 'symbol dictionary' and be able to understand much more than what would be just pure information at another time.
Or something like that.

i often wonder about the forms we observe akashically: would you recommend taking them at face value, ever?

That's a very complete question and I need to come back to it- you could say that one reflects the other, but that's eminently debatable.
IMO the TV screen is the reflection of what some writer or producer puts out for others to see- so in a way it's the insight to someone else's head.

would you say the same about your vision screen and your head? or is there another writer behind that set of stage curtains?

That's ok. Most of the time I wish they didn't exist, but if they didn't, how would we picture pure evil? (That's a joke, I'm winding down).

that's funnier the longer i think about it. they're like sharks in man suits. i especially like how they dress up so sharply; no one who looks so sharp in a suit could do anything bad, right? am i right?

About as essential as essential gets.

would you say that the body has to be 'absent' from the mind for it to function properly? or perhaps that the 'subconscious thoughts' are actually energetic thought forms attached to the physical body and are released somehow during trance? are we just more aware of them during other mind states?or something else? feel free to guess if you're not attached to any kind of solid answer!

It developed naturally for me, but I don't know if this would be true for everyone- it may be a 'right brained/left brained' thing.

that's an interesting concept CFTraveler! during trance, most people are much more creative and suggestible yet you are more logical at that time. is this something intrinsic to you, something you have cultivated or something else? would you say that it's a different kind of logic? many brain scientists would say that logical thinking and trance states are somewhat exclusive from each other. they often suggest that meditating monks become quite gullible during deep trances especially.

After initial work, yes.

Depends. On some days I do more intuitive work, other times I have to 'sit to think', and rarely I meditate on things like this. I usually meditate to get the answer to a problem, not to think about it.

interesting observation; if answers arrive out of not thinking, then what might the purpose of thinking be?

I think they're complementary, and you start with whatever feels more natural to you. I tend to do both, my brain takes turns being dominant-or something.

You're welcome, C.

Thanks for sharing!

~Dale

[heliac]

i've made the mistake of making major strides in mediation, then taking a "video game break" or "movie break" and when ive' come back, i was WEAK and didn't know why. now i'm taking strides forward in finding out the details.


p.s.- anyone who wants to take a shot at the above questions are welcome! i'd appreciate it.

What are you watching or playing during the breaks? The content can definitely influence you. I have found even more so after meditating.
At one point, when i was meditating a lot, watching movies, reading books, almost became interactive. It would almost feel like i was a part of the experience being conveyed in the film or writing. If it was something inspiring then great.

[Beekeeper]

Originally Posted by Beekeeper
I'm with you. Actually, even watching a junky movie can do that. In fact, even momentary experiences and minor thoughts can get into your dream experiences.

very few people notice this. do you have much commentary on why that is?

Perhaps the subconscious doesn’t entirely have a sense of major or minor, it just latches on to something so that it can be further explored or resolved. I don’t know; it’s pretty much an observation I’ve made without giving much thought to why. Maybe it’s to make you consider why you had that momentary thought or experience, to bring it back into your awareness so that you free associate to something more significant.

Originally Posted by Beekeeper
Actually, yes, I do. I know the argument that by actively concentrating on removing it, you're giving it your attention, but I do choose to remove unsavory imagery and attitudes that are inevitable part of our contemporary lives. I also contemplate them and what they show us about the world we live in and some of the people who inhabit it but they usually happens at the time of exposure.

do you think that doing that at the time of exposure prevents us from having to deal with that 'thought' later?

I think every person is different. For me the answer is sometimes.

Originally Posted by Beekeeper
I'm sure it does but even as a small child I recall being very introspective, very into meta-cognition. It is in my nature.

what differences are there between your childhood introspection and your current introspection?

I’m not sure if there is a lot of difference other than sophistication. As a child I often looked at people and wondered what they felt and thought in response to their situation. I still do that but with greater experience and, therefore, insight. I wondered about the nature of reality. I wondered about the differences between people; the nature of life beyond death; what was an appropriate way to behave; why I did what I did. The patterns are still present but the beliefs have altered or broadened.

what differences do you attribute to maturity, to your nature, to the effects of spiritual practice, etc.?

The differences are attributable to experience and how I’ve internalized that experience. Spiritual practice is part of experience.

Originally Posted by Beekeeper
I try to actively place good, wanted thoughts there. I do this with exposure to elevating texts and, as much as possible, positive, compassionate, decent people. I’m lucky that in my job I’m able to read good literature and watch good videos and discuss these with the kids in my care and my colleagues. I also think dream journaling is a great way to know what is going on within your psyche and alert you to trends.

i am interested in the concept of psyche trends. what other commentary do you have about that? please don't' limit it to the context of this thread.

When I said “trends” I meant within myself rather than within a broader community, though these aren’t mutually exclusive, I suppose. So, dreams may indicate growth, purging, fear, connection, exhaustion, need for change, being stuck, you know . . . trends.

Originally Posted by Beekeeper
If we’re talking material manifestation, I’m very good at that. I’m not just talking about hard work but also about considerable material luck. I’m not sure where this originates because my background wasn’t wealthy and my mother constantly harped on about how poor we were, though I think I knew even then that we weren’t poor like the truly poor. When my children were little, I always said how lucky we were, that we always had everything we needed.

i wonder whether you became a positive influence because of you relationship with your mom, or if you were positive because of your nature or character that you incarnated with. what are your thoughts on that?

I think we bring in a character but that is meant to interact with what occurs in our life as an experiment in growth.

My mother was one of 9 kids in Malta. They were ostensibly middle class but she began life during the rationing of WW2 and the one photo I saw of her as a child showed a very thin little girl. She told me a memory of stealing tomatoes off a vine and that her brothers were given more food than the girls. She genuinely fears poverty and has never really appreciated that she’s left it behind her. I know it’s more complex than I present here, for instance, I think the feeling of “not enough” stems from other things for her (and others) and that money represents autonomy for her as, indeed, it does for me.

[sleeper]

What are you watching or playing during the breaks? The content can definitely influence you. I have found even more so after meditating.
At one point, when i was meditating a lot, watching movies, reading books, almost became interactive. It would almost feel like i was a part of the experience being conveyed in the film or writing. If it was something inspiring then great.

where the awareness goes, the energy goes. so i feel changes in my energy system due to anything i do between meditations. the reason i tend to focus on Modern Media is because it is so awareness intensive. it can have violent explosions, sex, product placements, moral and ethical judgements, intelligent ideas, cleverness, drama, etc. all in 1 screenshot! and it goes on for hours. so it is much more draining than waking life in the real world.

[sleeper]

Beekeeper,

thank you for sharing

~Dale