OBE's and polysomnogram

[Tristan]

I think I posted this original question in the wrong part of the forum (I was trying to type on an Iphone so I could barely read the screen.

I have had spontaneous OBE's for a good 15 years. They started during puberty, originally I didn't know what was happening until I had a joint OBE with my sister. I studied OBE's for a long time in an attempt to learn how to control them, induce them at will etc. Specifically, I used to study some of your Robert Bruce's work in my failed attempts to control them. (He was the only person that I had ever read that seemed to share my experiences of mind/body spit sensations and his original title Astral Dynamics had a chapter in it that helped me overcome a significant fear of sleeping I had developed after battling periods of horrid parasonias.

Anyway, I had a polysomnogram recently and during the polysomogram I had an out of body experience. I was not expecting it while connected to EEG etc. We will be able to tell when the OBE occurred on the Video EEG because the technician because I woke myself up multiple times trying to get the OBE's to stop. Once I get the results will I be able to learn from the data how to control my o b e? Are there specific brain wave changes? Am I think only person on here that has had an OBE during a polysomnogram (AKA Sleep study where EEG, heart monitor, breath monitors are attached?) Are there any scientific studies being done that the EEg data would be useful for?

I seem to struggle with the mind body split it is very loud, sometimes feels painful and just wish I could control it better or get it to stop. It had been a long time since I've had an involuntary OBE but I am partly excited because we caught one during a sleep study. I feel like knowing more about what they are will help me not be so afraid of them. I think I would be ok with them more if I felt like I could control them and have them on my terms. I should get my EEG data this week. I did not see any posts in here with key words EEG or polysomnogram.. Has there been any studies? It will be neat to see exactly what brain waves were there during the mind /body split then maybe I can learn how to control them. I feel like I could have more fun with it if I could relax more with it. I would love to be able to look FORWARD to going to bed at night

[CFTraveler]

I think I posted this original question in the wrong part of the forum (I was trying to type on an Iphone so I could barely read the screen.

Hi Tristan and welcome to the forums. I saw one version in the 'Ask Robert' section- if you wanted his opinion then by all means keep it there. Meanwhile, I'll start contributing what I (think I) know in this one.

I have had spontaneous OBE's for a good 15 years. They started during puberty, originally I didn't know what was happening until I had a joint OBE with my sister. I studied OBE's for a long time in an attempt to learn how to control them, induce them at will etc. Specifically, I used to study some of your Robert Bruce's work in my failed attempts to control them. (He was the only person that I had ever read that seemed to share my experiences of mind/body spit sensations and his original title Astral Dynamics had a chapter in it that helped me overcome a significant fear of sleeping I had developed after battling periods of horrid parasonias.

I do think that he may be the first OBE writer that describes it, but I find that the phenomenon is quite common, especially when you get some experience.

Anyway, I had a polysomnogram recently and during the polysomogram I had an out of body experience. I was not expecting it while connected to EEG etc. We will be able to tell when the OBE occurred on the Video EEG because the technician because I woke myself up multiple times trying to get the OBE's to stop.

I think it'll be marked by an alpha intrusion on your results. Let me know if I'm wrong.

Once I get the results will I be able to learn from the data how to control my o b e? Are there specific brain wave changes?

That's a tricky question and I'll answer it to the best of my ability, knowing I could be wrong:
Most OBE exits are 'conventionally' known to happen while in theta- it seems that it's when they happen in statistical models- that's because you are in between the aware and asleep state. But I have read that what happens in the brain is that when you are in the sleep state (can be delta, can be other) there is what is known as an alpha intrusion that happens- the 'conscious' part 'wakes up' and experiences what the subconscious is experiencing. This has also been known to happen in other sleep studies.

It's interesting that you had the OBE experience. Did it happen when you were exposed to light strobing? I asked because years ago I wanted to know if my experiences were due to epilepsy, so I had myself tested, and the EEG I had (this was many years ago, tests have changed) including exposure to strobe lights. The good news is that I didn't have epilepsy, so that wasn't the cause of my experiences, although science has decided to attribute them to temporal lobe seizures, because you don't have to have one to be diagnosed. (Yes, really).

Am I think only person on here that has had an OBE during a polysomnogram (AKA Sleep study where EEG, heart monitor, breath monitors are attached?) Are there any scientific studies being done that the EEg data would be useful for?

It is my understanding that La Berge and others have been doing sleep studies with Lucid Dreaming (of course they think of OBEs as lucid dreams), so you might get better info from them.

I seem to struggle with the mind body split it is very loud, sometimes feels painful and just wish I could control it better or get it to stop. It had been a long time since I've had an involuntary OBE but I am partly excited because we caught one during a sleep study. I feel like knowing more about what they are will help me not be so afraid of them.

What I can tell you about that is that the more I practice the less symptoms I get when I project- I no longer get vibrations and the other symptoms are quite rare. The bad news is that you will experience bilocation, which can be very weird, but it will indicate you are psychologically more able to handle the experiences. So it depends on what symptoms you are having more trouble with, maybe we can help you there.

I think I would be ok with them more if I felt like I could control them and have them on my terms.

Practice practice practice. I find energy work to be beneficial because it brings some control into the equation- and control of your energy body is beneficial, especially if your OBEs are involuntary.

I hope this post helped somewhat.
ps, the board views are probably set to '1 month' or less. You can modify this, because I think there may be other posts about this type of thing in older posts- I think.

[Tristan]

Thank you for your response! I am a cardiac patient and have had seizures but I have never been diagnosed with Epilepsy. I do have some neurological issues and am anxious to see my sleep study results if nothing else so that someone can tell me I am not epileptic. The last time I had seizures I had my license taken for a while.

I would say that its paralysis but I lack some of the symptoms that sleep paralysis patients have (I have zero awareness of dark entities) I don't really feel threatened, I know they're not going to kill me. It just hurts and I'm a control freak

No strobes were used as the original sleep study as the complaint that needed to be addressed is severe chronic insomnia that is the likely result of my other health conditions.

Lucid dreaming feels very different from an OBE situation. The frame rate in lucid dreaming is similar to the frame rate in physical wake state (its almost not discernable and takes me a while to realize that I'm not dreaming. There is lots of cool things I can do in Lucid dreaming that I can't do OBE. Also, the Lucid Dreaming world is very different from my "OBE" world. The lucid dreaming world is never consistent, my OBE world is very consistent.)

An OBE is different as there is 360 degree vision, the frame rate is slow but speeds up if and sources of electricity seem to be my "sign posts" and what use to move around with. (Electrical sockets, power lines, TVs - The further away I move the louder those electrical noises get. As retarded as it sounds, I seem to have more frequent OBE's in places where there are a lot of power lines in the area. When we picked out our house I specifically and intentionally requested to not live near above ground power lines for this specific reason.

In OBE's All of the electrical sources look the same and have a very specifically consistent appearance in OBE's that I do not have with lucid dreaming and it never varies from one OBE to the other and never has in over 15 years. Lucid dreaming I can change the environment rapidly, may things happen, I can see myself, do superman type stuff and make things appear. I

n OBE's I can't change the environment, I can only move around in it and the frame rate sucks.

Disregard the video, but this is the sounds I hear consistently in OBE and feel these also. My husband says I describe a jacobs ladder effect so thats what I went looking for to find the sounds / vibrations. Are these similar to what you used to have?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgDGo_vca9M

It usually gets louder and feels more intense the closer I get to that split part and on re-entry. They're there after that split occurs but usually is very quiet and only gets loud or intense after exit when I move near power sources (like electrical power sources, not power sources as in some kind of entity or divine power source)

This jacobs ladder electrical arc effect I often see in my OBE's visually. I use those to move from place to place. Maybe those are my signposts?

I have never seen those in Lucid dreaming. I have tried to create them in lucid dreaming so I can create an OBE and for some reason can't seem to shift from lucid to OBE. If I have an OBE during the daytime it doesn't seem to create the same panic symptoms. The majorty of the OBE's are positive if they occur in the daytime.

I have had professional counseling as a first step to attempt to resolve any possible psychological issues that may be interfering with my sleep and are usually co morbid with some of the cardiovascular and neurovascular problems and all of that is more than ruled out and situated. I completed that program well over a year ago and I am still having problems with sleep. So I am trying to hit it from a different angle. I was eventually given sleep medications to break the cycles but I am dependent on them now and trying to get myself off of sleep medicines without aggravating my health conditions.

I have never heard of alpha intrusions but googled those and I bet you are right. Being in a laying down position creates physical discomfort that does wake me often.

Oftentimes an OBE is a welcomed escape from my body if I could just manage the split better!!

I think I have experienced bilocation several times. It is confusing and I wake up with migraines after those so I'm not 100% certain if that is true bilocation or a neurovascular related hallucination from aura.

Honestly, there is a huge part of me that just does not want to have OBE's but I think shifting my attitude to making something positive out of it will be more beneficial for me in the long run than fighting it all of the time. Doing some experiments like having my husband put cards with random shapes on the tops of book cases so I can focus on trying to look at those instead of whether or not Jacobs ladder is going to wrack my body with pain sounds like something I can cope better with.


Thank you for the response.
Here is to hoping I will not chicken out and embrace it!

[CFTraveler]

Thank you for your response! I am a cardiac patient and have had seizures but I have never been diagnosed with Epilepsy. I do have some neurological issues and am anxious to see my sleep study results if nothing else so that someone can tell me I am not epileptic. The last time I had seizures I had my license taken for a while.

I would say that its paralysis but I lack some of the symptoms that sleep paralysis patients have (I have zero awareness of dark entities) I don't really feel threatened, I know they're not going to kill me. It just hurts and I'm a control freak

Technically, the 'hag' phenomenon is not always present in sleep paralysis. It tends to happen in that state because the brain is still on 'dream' mode- but also there seems to be an energetic feedback that happens in a partial OBE (where you have partially projected and your energy body is feeding back into your amygdala and causing fear. You can tell this from 'regular' paralysis without fear, because if you approach the entity you will reintegrate and take off- and the fear is visceral, and completely divorced from rationality. Or at least it's one of possible explanations for it.

Lucid dreaming feels very different from an OBE situation. The frame rate in lucid dreaming is similar to the frame rate in physical wake state (its almost not discernable and takes me a while to realize that I'm not dreaming. There is lots of cool things I can do in Lucid dreaming that I can't do OBE. Also, the Lucid Dreaming world is very different from my "OBE" world. The lucid dreaming world is never consistent, my OBE world is very consistent.)

I'm aware of the difference, but science doesn't recognize it. Therefore, most of the studies done on the subject are categorized as lucid dreams, even though some are obviously OBEs. Such is the nature of the scientific paradigm, and most scientists stay with it, except for very few, of course.

Disregard the video, but this is the sounds I hear consistently in OBE and feel these also. My husband says I describe a jacobs ladder effect so thats what I went looking for to find the sounds / vibrations. Are these similar to what you used to have?

I had all variations of sounds, including buzzing, rat-tat-tat, screeches, screams, jackhammers, whooshing, popping and snapping, you name it- after a while they resolved as voices, but now I get almost nothing of the sort.

I have to say that the noises went as soon as I was out, I never have heard anything while projected, and all communication was immersive/telephatic.

It usually gets louder and feels more intense the closer I get to that split part and on re-entry. They're there after that split occurs but usually is very quiet and only gets loud or intense after exit when I move near power sources (like electrical power sources,

That's interesting. I have power lines next to my house but they never affected me, except that I never head that way. Which might be an unconscious avoidance from my part. I'll have to give this some more thought.

This jacobs ladder electrical arc effect I often see in my OBE's visually

I have seen this in projection, but around my physical body, on 'top' of my chest area as soon as I project, and dissipated quite quickly.

I think I have experienced bilocation several times. It is confusing and I wake up with migraines after those so I'm not 100% certain if that is true bilocation or a neurovascular related hallucination from aura.

I don't like it either, it's just one more thing to get through.

Honestly, there is a huge part of me that just does not want to have OBE's but I think shifting my attitude to making something positive out of it will be more beneficial for me in the long run than fighting it all of the time.

I think I'd like to speak with you through pm about this later, when I have more time. Would that be ok with you?

[Tristan]

Yay pm away thank you so much for sharing

[Tristan]

I have primary central sleep apnea. Its not the obstructive sleep apnea its in the brain. My brain does not know how convert breathing properly when slipping into different stages of sleep so I get shifted in various stages of sleep violently. Without medication I only sleep 2-3 minutes at a time so I do not have insomnia the insomnia was just a perception issue.