Frustrated and unmotavated

[ProbableReality]

I have been trying to get into having an AP/OBE on and off for about ten years now and I always run into the same problems. Weather I am trying to meditate or listening to any number of Binural, hypnosis, guided visualization audio programs out there I always run into the same walls.

My first problem is that I have ADD. When I am trying to visualize something or focus on my breathing or just relax enough to enter into an altered state my mind inevitably wanders. I can be lost in my head so thoroughly I will be completely oblivious to the instructions playing in my earphones telling me what to do. When I snap out of it I have to start all over again.

Even when I do manage to somehow stay focused enough that I feel I might be getting somewhere, when I'm fully relaxed, BAM! my nose starts to itch and it pops me right out of my altered state of mind.

I feel like instead of building any skill of focus in the proses I'm just building a negative conitation to it all in my head. So I am hoping to find anyone who may have had the same problems and is willing to share what helped them to succeed.

Thank you

[Sinera]

It seems you only tried so far to come into trance from the waking state. Have you ever tried to exit trance from the "other side" - from sleep? Many do this, especially beginnners. I have actually all my exits from this method. Although I tried hard (and still do) so far I have not managed to project from direct induction of trance myself, either.

Try affirmations before going to bed (even better: while already in bed while in slumber-state) for several weeks (e.g. "I'm out-of-body NOW" (the now is important!)).
The advantage is that you are already deep-relaxed in trance when you come 'from down (sleep) upwards' instead of 'struggling' your way from up (wakefulness) downwards.

Certainly, the big disadvantage of this might be that you do not have the control as to "when" it works. But this is still so much better than having no exit success at all. Give it a shot, it might work. Good luck.

[CFTraveler]

Hi PR.
It seems to me that there are things that are going to work for you and things that aren't, so I'd like to help you on a step by step basis.
If it's ok with you, I'd like for you to describe precisely what you do as a process now, and go from there.
I think that most programs are very generic (which makes them good for a certain segment of the population) and it is best first to determine what your strenghts and weaknesses are (you already mentioned your concentration skills or lack of them.) Now I'd like to ask you a few questions besides describing your step by step process.

Do you remember things in pictures or sensations? Think about this for a minute or two.

Do you have difficulty sleeping? And, do you have a set daily schedule (school, work?)

How is your ADD managed? (No need to give details, I just want to know general stuff).

If it's too personal, pm me. However I do get lots of pms and sometimes I don't respond to them promptly.
Thanks,
C.

[ProbableReality]

It seems you only tried so far to come into trance from the waking state. Have you ever tried to exit trance from the "other side" - from sleep? Many do this, especially beginnners. I have actually all my exits from this method. Although I tried hard (and still do) so far I have not managed to project from direct induction of trance myself, either.

I assume you are talking about getting up in the middle of the night and attempting an exit technique? I have had limited experience trying this method but so far what I have found is that when I wake up I am AWAKE. If I get up and go to the couch and try something I can not get back to sleep at all.

Try affirmations before going to bed (even better: while already in bed while in slumber-state) for several weeks (e.g. "I'm out-of-body NOW" (the now is important!)).
The advantage is that you are already deep-relaxed in trance when you come 'from down (sleep) upwards' instead of 'struggling' your way from up (wakefulness) downwards.

I must admit that I find it hard to see the point in this. I'm not against it, I just feel a bit silly when I'm lying there talking to myself over and over again. There is always some voice in the back of my head saying "This is pointless." "You know this is the definition of insanity don't you. Saying the same thing over and over again expecting it to become true." I'm not trying to put down any methods out there. If it works for you, I envy you so much. This is just my brain being stubborn.

Certainly, the big disadvantage of this might be that you do not have the control as to "when" it works. But this is still so much better than having no exit success at all. Give it a shot, it might work. Good luck.

I'll give it a try and see how it goes. Thanks for the advice.

Hi PR.
It seems to me that there are things that are going to work for you and things that aren't, so I'd like to help you on a step by step basis.

WOW, I appreciate it. Any help I can get.

If it's ok with you, I'd like for you to describe precisely what you do as a process now, and go from there.

My process right now is that I don't have a process. Not yet. So far all I have been doing is experimenting with different methods in order to find something that inspires or resonates with me. What I have found out are the big obstacles I need to overcome or find a way around such as my wandering mind.

Do you remember things in pictures or sensations? Think about this for a minute or two.

I am an artist so my mind works primarily in a visual way. I have difficulty with feelings and sensations but they are not gone.

Do you have difficulty sleeping? And, do you have a set daily schedule (school, work?)

Often i do have problems sleeping. Mostly due to my snoring and uncomfortable bed. I am a night owl so I mostly get to bed around 4 in the morning and wake up at around noon to one. I am a professional artist so my schedule is very flexible.

How is your ADD managed? (No need to give details, I just want to know general stuff).

Its not. I don't take any medication. If anything it helps me with my art. I don't have any problems with it in daily life. My personality has worked around it. I think one problem I have is sence I have been dealing with ADD my entire life that its almost a reflex that I hold on to my concuss thought like a vice so it it hard to willingly let myself into an altered state of mind. When I let that guard down that's when my mind flits off to do its own thing. Its a measure of extremes with me. Either I have hard control or none at all. One method I try when going to sleep is trying to visualize another location before I fall asleep. If I hold to that image in my head I cant get to sleep. Eventually if i want to sleep at all I have to let go of that control of my mind and let my thoughts go where ever they want.


Feel free to ask me anything else. I truly appreciate the help. If I think of anything else you may find useful I will post it here.

[CFTraveler]

If it's ok with you, I'll ask some more questions so I can get a feel for more. One of the things I am going to ask you to do (besides answer questions, lol- I promise there is a point to them- is to do tasks that at first don't seem to be about projecting- this is because I want to approach the situation on a step by step basis- to see if we can work around your ADD and use your natural skills.
The fact that your ADD is managed without medication makes me think that you can also handle this task.
So here is the next round of questions:
Do you finish the tasks you set out for yourself? For example, if you have to clean a room, and do some artwork, are you able to finish them? (I don't mean in any set order, I mean complete them in a satisfactory way?)
Do you remember your dreams? As someone who doesn't sleep so great either, I tend to remember my dreams. My husband, who sleeps like a log, hardly ever remembers them unless they're outstanding in some kind of way.
And, one that is very important, how are you at letting people tell you what to do?

[ProbableReality]

Do you finish the tasks you set out for yourself? For example, if you have to clean a room, and do some artwork, are you able to finish them? (I don't mean in any set order, I mean complete them in a satisfactory way?)

I have a strong tendency to procrastinate but once I start a task I don't have any problem finishing it. If its an art project that does not have a deadline and is large enough to take several days to finish i can prolong its completion for a very long time. Months even.

Do you remember your dreams? As someone who doesn't sleep so great either, I tend to remember my dreams. My husband, who sleeps like a log, hardly ever remembers them unless they're outstanding in some kind of way.
And, one that is very important, how are you at letting people tell you what to do?

I can remember my dreams if I put forth some effort. For a month or two I made a point of remembering my dreams and making audio recordings of them every morning. When I did this I was able to remember them more and more. Now that I stopped I can remember perhaps one a week. I don't think I will have a problem building up that ability again if I try.

Also I won't have any problem with doing anything you feel will help. I may have questions but there won't be any problems.

[ProbableReality]

So what's the first step CFT?

[CFTraveler]

I'm glad you replied to this- in the past two days I've had a horrible migraine that half-blinded me, and I couldn't find this thread, so I thought you hadn't replied yet.
My first couple of tasks would be not necessarily OBE or phasing attempts yet, but preparation of your subconscious to be able to experience them.
In your post I read two apparently contradictory statements: "I want to learn", and "I have no motivation". Now, I think that if this is true (we are complicated human beings) we have to reconcile those statements.
You already talked about the concentration, but what I'm going to have you do does not require concentration-yet- it is just a matter of setting up a habit. So if you can suspend judgement and possibly disbelief, I am going to give you these tasks.
Week One:
The first one is something you already said you didn't like- and it is to do an affirmation. If you feel stupid doing it, what you do is you write it down and only say it once aloud, when no one else is there, but look at it before going to sleep, whatever that time is. The affirmation is "I remember my projections". No 'will', and no specifics. Since dreams are a kind of projection, they are included.
The second task is to keep a pen and paper next to your bed and write three keywords every time you wake up, even if the dream memory is foggy. I'm not asking you to keep a journal (unless you want to, but that's another job at another time) just to write three keywords about whatever you dreamed that morning. If you don't remember anything, write whatever you think about as you wake up. Even if it's bathroom sleepy noise- but if you wake up from a dream write the three keywords.
Do this for a week and then I'll give you the next week's jobs.

[ProbableReality]

Okay. We will see how it goes. I will post anything interesting. Again, thanks for your help.

[Korpo]

Hello, PR.

You say have problems to concentrate, that your mind is going "off-topic" hard and fast when you try to go in trance.

I just wondered if you ever tried the following: Lie down and make the conscious decision to let whatever comes up in your mind to let it happen. Do this for a time. Anything is okay. Let it play out. What happens? What do you remember? What do you feel afterward?

This can yield interesting insights into your own mind, and while it might not directly affect your ability to induce projections, it might help in other ways.

I also like the advice CF has given.

A general question if you don't mind: Why do you want to AP? What do you expect it to give you that another spiritual discipline can't?

Oliver