The Deceivers

[Beekeeper]

from the same dialogue: "The deceivers are not spirits. They live in the human mind, so the watchers cannot affect them."

so the deceivers are in a way our own creations? maybe this shows us that there is not so much a difference and contradiction to what Korpo says about most "negs" to be of 'human nature'? it is both, in a a way.
many (also in literature, by R.B. etc.) say that many negs are self-created too. maybe the "reptiles" are indeed both: astral/etheric entities who were created maybe by our reptilian-fear-brain-evolutionary past? they get self-aware and independent to some degree and influence / attach to (other) humans using their imagination, belief systems, mental/emotional states and 'receptivity' to feed on, and later they become a "meme" in society / the collective subconscious, such as the greys and their abduction scenarios

Yes, it crossed my mind. That's not to say that each person creates his own deceivers. The Archarchon, for example, is a collective creation.

Still doesn't explain physical evidence such as implants.

Hello, Volgerle.

Could be. It would take a well-developed causal body to observe this properly, though. Or what Kurt has now dubbed the cosmic physical mental body. Only with a vehicle that can operate outside the constraints of both astral and mental planes this could be discerned and reliable information obtained. Such mystics are rare, so mostly astral clairvoyant information dominates the discussion, and so we cannot tell what is truly the case.

Oliver

Well, it seems Mick observed such a thing.

I'm presuming that some of the indigenous spiritual leaders of the past observed such things in order to arrive at the knowledge. Certainly Hale Makua, as described in "The Bowl of Light," fits the bill.

[sono2]

Agreed! BTW Has anyone read "The Breaking Of Jim Sparks"? It can be downloaded as a pdf. - osrry i don't have a link any more.

[Beekeeper]

Jim Sparks - is that the Montauk guy? If so, I find that stuff so far fetched that's it's hard to credit.

[sono2]

No, not Montauk - sorry am so busy I can't search for the pdf link. He also speaks of Jinns, if I remember correctly - he followed a light back & forth one night, never getting any closer. It is actually a very disturbing book, he exposes his psyche in a very raw fashion.

[Beekeeper]

Okay. There are so many of them, it's hard to keep them all straight! I couldn't find the link either. I read this interview http://www.jerrypippin.com/Sparks w-LMH.pdf and noted the use of the phrase "masters of deception." They're not restricted to the astral and mental in Spark's view.

Considering the of these alleged beings coveting our creativity, while I read the PDF I did find myself wondering if their ideas for deception were taken out of human imagination.

[mick]

You're welcome, Sono.

Interesting link, Mick. I do enjoy your sharings and it's an interesting idea!

You might enjoy: http://www.sharedwisdom.com/hanks-sh...nn-genie-egypt

An interesting read. I have some sympathy for the role of humans in the creation of various entities and other fabrications, some by design, some by spurious thoughts/actions. I am cautious not to turn this into a blame game except in the obvious cases of contrived constructions. The resultant nature of the products of such events may or may not be directly attributable to the human sources. The physical parallels of child birth can also produce a wide range of results, some being net contributors, others benign and others nightmares to those close or not so close to them irrespective perhaps of the quality of nurture...

In the dialogue there is some emphasis on the role of humans as exclusive creators but then mentions Sophia as a driving force. I do perceive a creative ability beyond the physical/humans also, so would not work with such a sharp divide, but a discussion for another time maybe.

Something about the description of the Sophia role struck a chord, if asked to describe the higher driver/force, my answer would be a predominant sense of Will that embodies a powerful predilection for life/creation. Some will talk of the big motivator being on the emotional level, that of love. Could say that such is manifested as a result of Will as I defined above but it's obviously just one viewpoint.

The Jinn answers do cover a lot of ground in respect of what our environment is, with a large chunk, if not all, of the local "non physical" environment being the product of humanity including its Gods or otherwise. I would also run with elements of that line based on experiences, but would add that the significant human role in some of these manifestations could just be the giving of space through humans non locality aspects, and consequently giving room for various elements to manifest. thereafter for some to continue to exist somewhat in its own right (with or without energy demands on others).

With that basis in mind perhaps a case can be made that we have created our own version of an afterlife within that basic construct, so long as enough humans believe in that particular version so it continues, little digression there. Would add that for various reasons I would not suggest that is the whole picture and solely a human centric one but the gateways to other regions often do have a somewhat human centric touch about them.

Would add, I did develop a slight suspicion while reading the dialogue that the Djinn might just be playing to his audience little. But then that is to be expected.
These entities always seem to paint a good picture of their own type and all others are dodgy. Encounter another type and the names get rotated. This used to be rife in Ufology channellings, don't check them out any more so maybe they have moved on but I have an inkling that they have not.

[Beekeeper]

These entities always seem to paint a good picture of their own type and all others are dodgy. Encounter another type and the names get rotated. This used to be rife in Ufology channellings, don't check them out any more so maybe they have moved on but I have an inkling that they have not.

It certainly crossed my mind as well that just because he thought the Jinn was constrained to tell truth in the encounter didn't mean its explanations were absolute truth. As you said, it would have its biases and it is a creature of free will, after all.

Of course, it's all taken on faith in somebody else's perceptions.

[mick]

Just re-reading that link I sent you, these quotes stood out

J(inn): You humans are creators. We, the Jinn, cannot create but we can mimic… we can imitate… and we can affect potential outcomes, but we cannot create.

I do wonder how often these entities are playing to the human ego? A variation on the permission gambit, gain an inroad through some ego stroking such as labelling humans special.
One wonders what might actually be meant by the term creation in this context? Would say that the actions of affecting outcomes is in the same creative genre, it being an exercising of Will.

J: Oh… so you know about them… (The Jinn’s field brightened reflecting excitement.) The archons are not true spirits. They are mind beings, mental entities many of who were created by humans as thought-forms. Many of these function as attachments… as mental parasites.

HW: How do they do that?

J: They feed on the energy… on the attention paid to them by humans. This includes the energy generated by human belief systems. But they are not true spirits and they will cease to exist if nobody pays attention to them any more. The ones you call ‘the archons’ are those that we call ‘the deceivers,’ and like us they are not creative. But they can mimic and they can take on forms in response to human belief systems.

(I thought about this at some length, then asked.)

HW: Are they the ones we call the aliens or extraterrestrials?

(The Jinn didn’t appear to understand the question so I explained. Its response was more than interesting.)

J: The deceivers can take on many forms, drawing from the belief systems of humans… and… there are also visitors who come here from other places.

So, clearly Wesselman doesn't see them as the same beings, despite similarities.

Noted that the Djinn talked of hopping a ride also then moves into a place where homage of various forms are made!

As mentioned earlier re. self promotion, I would wonder the description of the other entities versus their own role. I don't give specific credence to any of these classes of entities because many (all) come with the ability to "present" as they choose. If not in an actual specific form then possibly just to influence how they are perceived.

Myself, more likely, I would be noting how they are interacting with the immediate environment both voluntarily and involuntarily to get a sense of their purpose and role.

Where there is a verbal exchange, if a being gets road blocked by a question then I might read that as a sign of a limit of their capability, as can be seen in the limits to the scope of a Servitor type. Might also be an example of when they might be doing some data mining of the questioner to get enough in order to make an answer.

This question of energy sourcing is so often where this part of the arena eventually goes, whether these entities are human created or not, that some do work to obtain energy is somewhat evident and bring a range of wiles to achieve this.

But would also say this is just one element of our environment.

[mick]

Received an email pointing me at a book/website and video interview, it concerns the Djinn. Have not watched the video as yet but have taken a look at bits of the site. http://www.djinnuniverse.com/ This topic came to mind.

The authors present the idea that the Djinn as a race were hereabouts first and humanity has stepped into the same space. They give their background ideas to this and certain machinations that subsequently occurred. Maybe, but would add that on occasions when examining elements of our environment of the non physical we have also noted similar themes, a sense that some subtle areas that humanity occupy had/has earlier residents who are not totally comfortable with it. or maybe

Here is the interview link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3dqV...1&feature=plcp

Edit: updated video link.

[Beekeeper]

Thanks for the links, Mick. I'll check them out.

I recently watched this http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=1q2Du_DkKbo. I can't say it convinced me but I did notice he claimed that there were extraterrestrial groups who referred to the greys as deceivers, even a coded message in a crop circle that said as much.