Bending the "real" world exactly the same as a dream, is it possible?

[ButterflyWoman]

I have heard of people who manipulated reality enough to cause someone's death (which was apparent) to "not happen after all", but I have never heard of anyone adept enough to raise the dead, other than Jesus and a couple of his apostles (Paul and Peter did, according to the book of Acts, if I'm recalling correctly). Possibly some other great spiritual teachers/adepts were also able to do it, but I'm unfamiliar with the literature if there are such cases (I wouldn't be surprised to hear of Indian mystics who were advanced enough to do this, for example).

In other words, I do think it's possible, but it requires a level of awakening that few ever achieve.

This thread has made me think about different models of reality. Perhaps if I get the time I might write up some different possibilities.

Giorgia, I'm sorry to hear of your loss.

[Giorgia]

Thank you ButterflyWoman.
That's the same thing that another friend of mine told me about this,she's pretty advanced with these things too in my opinion ,and she told me that probably only few people can bring the dead back ,like maybe (i think) the Dalai Lama or enlightened ones ... ,anyway my friend underwent an operation and went into a coma and then passed away ,so i have beeen told,i doubt i have what it takes to bring him back.

[Giorgia]

I mean i wouldn't know where to start from ,i could convince myself that the person who told me so is misinformed and that my friend is still in the coma and that he will wake up and i'll see him again but i don't know ...One thing i haven't clear about subjective reality is that,even though i have it clear that your reality is a reflection of your beliefs ,does each one of us live in his own sort of fantasy bubble where everything is possible ?

[ButterflyWoman]

I mean i wouldn't know where to start from ,i could convince myself that the person who told me so is misinformed and that my friend is still in the coma and that he will wake up and i'll see him again

As I understand it (and I make no claim of having ever done this or having any ability to do it), basically, yes. It's probably a bit deeper than that, but, yes. Unfortunately, once you fully believe something (anything), that pretty much makes it "real" to you, and changing that which you sincerely believe to be real and true is next to impossible.

It's a bit like quantum physics. On the quantum level, stuff is very weird and very fluid and extremely changeable. Simple observation can change the outcome. Once the outcome is decided, that is, once it comes out of probability and into actuality, that's pretty much it from then on, it doesn't change back (I'm simplifying greatly, and I'm not a physicist, but this is my understanding).

As far as I can tell and have experienced, every possibility is still a possibility... until it isn't.

One thing i haven't clear about subjective reality is that,even though i have it clear that your reality is a reflection of your beliefs ,does each one of us live in his own sort of fantasy bubble where everything is possible ?

Each of us lives in a unique reality (which may bear a lot of similarities to other realities, or not) in which everything is possible IF our beliefs allow it. Beliefs are the key to everything, and some beliefs are so deeply ingrained (from infancy, or even the womb) that relaxing them is nearly impossible. I doubt very much that I could stop believing, for example, that when I drop a spoon, it's going to hit the floor. I'm sure that some very awake and highly advanced people can make a spoon levitate, because they simply know it doesn't have to fall, but I've never met anyone like that, and my spoons hit the floor. Maybe it's just that we need to move closer to the truth, which is that there is no spoon.

[dreaming90]

This reality frame is a dream, yes. But it is a GROUP dream. It takes a very high level of consciousness to manipulate reality to a large extent because there are billions of other people who are dreaming the very same dream that you want to manipulate.

Can you make the Death Star appear in the sky? Theoretically, yes. But practically speaking, you are surrounded by lots of other people who believe that manifesting a Death Star is impossible. Let's use the analogy of a big canoe with 50 rowers. If one person decides hey, I'd really like to row the other way, he has to deal with 49 others who are rowing a different direction.

This is why law of attraction can be very subtle. If you attract one thousand dollars, money isn't going to literally fall from the sky. That would violate the group dream. It would probably come from an unexpected work bonus or something more "normal."

Of course, different cultures are having different little group dreams. Something that's possible in East Africa, such as placing a curse on someone, is generally less successful in a culture where it is believed that such a thing is not possible.

Raising someone from the dead would entail shifting a large group of people to an entirely separate history thread, which needless to say would be extremely difficult.

[Giorgia]

Then find another model if you don't like that one. Seriously, it's YOUR reality, shape it however you want, using whatever symbols you want, in whatever model you want. If you don't like the "dream" model, use the "game" model, or the "story" model, or make one up for yourself.

Personally i find the dream model perfect,for the Loa ..it fits it so well (like what you give focus and thought you make exist,you create). It's few days i really feel this perspective like never before,i was reading something few days ago,an article about it that has triggered the state for me,an understanding,i would never wanna leave it probably,it feels good .

[ButterflyWoman]

Another frame that works for a lot of people is that of a "game", in the sense that we (individually and collectively) are an infinite being with no limitations and no boundaries, who is playing a game with itself, setting up rules and guidelines, etc., and then working within the limiting parameters for a challenge.

Personally, I like to think of the Star Trek holodeck. Everything on the holodeck looks and feels entirely, utterly, convincingly real, but it's all just a simulation, projected by the computer. In fact, the idea of the universe as a hologram is a theory of quantum physics, along with the idea that reality as we know it is really just made up of information (data).

[Giorgia]

I like the dream model because if the world is what you think it is and whatever you believe you create it's sort of an imagination world where you can make up any story ...i tested and used this concept a bit in the past months and i had a thing happening to me that i thought it was impossible ,i have to test it more but it got me thinking .
What would you think would be the differences between the dream model ,the simulation ,the game or the story model you talked about (that i don't know) ?

[ButterflyWoman]

I think it just depends on what works for you. Some people don't like the dream model because they feel that if they can't fly or instantly change the colour of the sky or whatever it is they might do in a lucid dream, it drags them back into the model that says everything is external and objective and you've got little to no control over it. I get that, but for me, it's not a big deal because, honestly, I haven't got a lot of control over my sleeping dreams anyway. Yes, I sometimes dream about stuff I couldn't (and maybe wouldn't want to) do in waking life, but my dream control is minimal, at best. I have better control over my reality when I'm awake, actually.

The game model is one used by Robert Scheinfeld, who wrote a series of books about "Busting Loose", the first of which was "Busting Loose from the Money Game". It's not really about money, though, but about getting rid of limiting beliefs and so forth. I'm not 100% thrilled with the game model, mostly because I don't play any sports nor do I follow any, but it could be applied if you're a computer gamer, I suppose. Again, it's what your mind accepts and understands.

The Star Trek holodeck model is one that you probably need to have seen to understand. In essence, the holodeck is a specially designed empty room, and the computer is programmed to play out a scenario there, often things like books or other stories, and you participate in them as one of the characters. The room allows for the projected data to be solid and for all intents and purposes real, although it can't be taken off of the holodeck. A great many Star Trek stories take place in or around the holodeck, in fact, including references in a couple of the films. Oh, one other interesting feature of the holodeck is that it's possible to turn the safety restrictions off, so that a sword will really stab you and bullets will really kill you and so forth. So it can be a very real experience, indeed. But imagine if you'd been born in a holodeck simulation, or if you'd woken up in one with no memory of your former life. How would you know it wasn't "real"?

(You have to understand, I've been watching Star Trek in its many incarnations since I was a very small child, so this works for me very well. I just need to work out how to program the computer to project what I want )

Again, it just depends on how your own mind works, on what you understand. There are countless models people could use, and, in fact, "Objective Reality with Optional Supernatural Extras" (which is what most people are taught from birth) is just one more model (though I don't think it's a very useful one for metaphysical purposes).

[dreaming90]

ButterflyWoman, have you read Thomas Campbell's My Big TOE? You would probably like Tom's theory about the nature of consciousness. If I recall correctly, he theorizes that consciousness is just an enormous amount of self-organizing data, and that everything is an individuated unit of the larger One Consciousness.

It's free on google books, if you are interested...