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Thread: How to get a little 'wiggle room'

  1. #11

    Re: How to get a little 'wiggle room'

    You know, the great thing about faith is that it doesn't need a sound mathematical model, being the basis for all of existence. One great thing about science is that it had its origins in the minds of men who sought to use it to find proof of an orderly God in the apparent chaos of nature, in the form of predictable patterns, who were entirely successful. Just look how far science has come, simply because people had the faith to try!
    Last edited by Pneumismatic; 24th July 2012 at 09:55 PM. Reason: tone
    "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."

  2. #12
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    Re: How to get a little 'wiggle room'

    Quote Originally Posted by CFTraveler View Post
    I also think that specific detailed focusing can be seen at 'tapered off' areas of influence,
    Yes, thinking about this some more, I had a passing experience a day or so back that reminded me that the "record" of the intent will still exist and those of attitude might also respond to the record and give it further presence. If it became that established and fortified lo we have another archetype.
    Mick

  3. #13
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    Re: How to get a little 'wiggle room'

    Quote Originally Posted by Pneumismatic View Post
    The great thing about science is that it had its origins in the minds of men who sought to use it to find proof of an orderly God in the apparent chaos of nature, in the form of predictable patterns, which was entirely successful. How far would they have gotten if they never had the faith to try?
    And not forgetting the Laws, some of which make patterns!

    Mods, move to the the Science and Spirit section if deemed more at home there.

    Interesting view but there were also early scientists who also had a secular approach to seeking understanding of the physical world. One consideration maybe, if considering the current era religions then comparatively science, its tools and elements of methodology as a discipline somewhat predate them. Aristotle, Ptolemy, Euclid circa 300ad and later Alhazen circa 900ad amongst others were major contributors to such as Roger Bacon, an early Christian scientist. A while back I had occasion to review the likes of early scientists and noted the work of Roger Bacon and the influences and inputs to his work. Added here in case of interest.

    Some scholars present viewpoints that science and its associated philosophies pre-dating those religions played a role in the shaping of articles of the modern religions. As these extracts from Wiki presents, Islam and Christianity were heavily influenced by the science of Greece and also indicates the scale and extent of their knowledge and the grounding that it gave us. In the early days of Islam, science played a major role in the establishment of its articles of faith and its view of the physical universe which was way in advance of Europe. The middle east played an important role in preserving and growing the science of the time whilst Europe developed with great vigour the dark ages. This science of the then middle east then became the springboard for the science of the European Medieval period. Roger Bacon is given a prominence in this role and the wiki entry for him lists the Islamic scholars on whose shoulders he stood. He was a monk which is something he found he needed to work around sometimes and needed to dodge the heresy bullets but not always successfully some suggest. A feature of such institutions plus the secret societies of the time is that they were some of the few places where one could be educated in the western world, particularly in languages which gave access to the scientific works and were also repositories of knowledge but over time the signs are that these institutions tended towards restriction as per the examples claimed for the experiences of Galileo as religion and science sometimes struggled, notwithstanding, the learning grew, unshackled itself and produced the European Enlightenment (which again drew from classical history for philosophical purposes) and one or two constitutions (Ah, Tom Paine comes to mind).

    I also think that the Hindu synergies with modern religions is of interest but another tale. Also the science inputs of China and other countries in the region contributed to the Greek Knowledge base helped by the roaming of Alexander who also spent time in areas of Hindu dominance.


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    Aristotle. Extracts from Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle

    Virtually all Western philosophy that came after his works; Alexander the Great, Avicenna, Averroes, Maimonides, Albertus Magnus, Thomas Aquinas, Duns Scotus, Ptolemy, Copernicus, Galileo, and most of Islamic philosophy, Jewish philosophy, Christian philosophy, science and more....

    Aristotle (Ancient Greek: Aristotéle-s) (384 BC – 322 BC)[1] was a Greek philosopher and polymath, a student of Plato and teacher of Alexander the Great. His writings cover many subjects, including physics, metaphysics, poetry, theater, music, logic, rhetoric, linguistics, politics, government, ethics, biology, and zoology. Together with Plato and Socrates (Plato's teacher), Aristotle is one of the most important founding figures in Western philosophy. Aristotle's writings were the first to create a comprehensive system of Western philosophy, encompassing morality, aesthetics, logic, science, politics, and metaphysics.

    Aristotle's views on the physical sciences profoundly shaped medieval scholarship, and their influence extended well into the Renaissance, although they were ultimately replaced by Newtonian physics. In the zoological sciences, some of his observations were confirmed to be accurate only in the 19th century. His works contain the earliest known formal study of logic, which was incorporated in the late 19th century into modern formal logic. In metaphysics, Aristotelianism had a profound influence on philosophical and theological thinking in the Islamic and Jewish traditions in the Middle Ages, and it continues to influence Christian theology, especially the scholastic tradition of the Catholic Church. His ethics, though always influential, gained renewed interest with the modern advent of virtue ethics. All aspects of Aristotle's philosophy continue to be the object of active academic study today. Though Aristotle wrote many elegant treatises and dialogues (Cicero described his literary style as "a river of gold"),[2] it is thought that the majority of his writings are now lost and only about one-third of the original works have survived.[3]"

    Aristotle not only studied almost every subject possible at the time, but made significant contributions to most of them. In physical science, Aristotle studied anatomy, astronomy, embryology, geography, geology, meteorology, physics and zoology. In philosophy, he wrote on aesthetics, ethics, government, metaphysics, politics, economics, psychology, rhetoric and theology. He also studied education, foreign customs, literature and poetry. His combined works constitute a virtual encyclopedia of Greek knowledge. It has been suggested that Aristotle was probably the last person to know everything there was to be known in his own time.[10]

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    Abn Al-Haytham Extracts from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhazen

    "Abū ʿAlī al-Ḥasan ibn al-Ḥasan ibn al-Haytham ) (965 in Basra – c. 1040 in Cairo) was a Muslim[5] scientist and polymath described in various sources as either Arab or Persian.[6][7][8][9][7][10] Alhazen made significant contributions to the principles of optics, as well as to physics, astronomy, mathematics, ophthalmology, philosophy, visual perception, and to the scientific method. He also wrote insightful commentaries on works by Aristotle, Ptolemy, and the Greek mathematician Euclid.[11]

    Optical treatises

    Besides the Book of Optics, Alhazen wrote several other treatises on optics. His Risala fi l-Daw’ (Treatise on Light) is a supplement to his Kitab al-Manazir (Book of Optics). The text contained further investigations on the properties of luminance and its radiant dispersion through various transparent and translucent media. He also carried out further examinations into anatomy of the eye and illusions in visual perception. He built the first camera obscura and pinhole camera,[44] and investigated the meteorology of the rainbow and the density of the atmosphere. Various celestial phenomena (including the eclipse, twilight, and moonlight) were also examined by him. He also made investigations into refraction, catoptrics, dioptrics, spherical mirrors, and magnifying lenses.[69]

    In his treatise, Mizan al-Hikmah (Balance of Wisdom), Alhazen discussed the density of the atmosphere and related it to altitude. He also studied atmospheric refraction. He discovered that the twilight only ceases or begins when the Sun is 19° below the horizon and attempted to measure the height of the atmosphere on that basis.[24]

    Astrophysics

    In astrophysics and the celestial mechanics field of physics, Alhazen, in his Epitome of Astronomy, discovered that the heavenly bodies "were accountable to the laws of physics".[70] Alhazen's Mizan al-Hikmah (Balance of Wisdom) covered statics, astrophysics, and celestial mechanics. He discussed the theory of attraction between masses, and it seems that he was also aware of the magnitude of acceleration due to gravity at a distance.[69] His Maqala fi'l-qarastun is a treatise on centres of gravity. Little is known about the work, except for what is known through the later works of al-Khazini in the 12th century. In this treatise, Alhazen formulated the theory that the heaviness of bodies varies with their distance from the centre of the Earth.[71]
    Legacy

    Alhazen made significant improvements in optics, physical science, and the scientific method. Alhazen's work on optics is credited with contributing a new emphasis on experiment. His influence on physical sciences in general, and on optics in particular, has been held in high esteem and, in fact, ushered in a new era in optical research, both in theory and practice.[24]

    The Latin translation of his main work, Kitab al-Manazir (Book of Optics),[25] exerted a great influence on Western science: for example, on the work of Roger Bacon, who cites him by name,[26] and on Johannes Kepler. His research in catoptrics (the study of optical systems using mirrors) centred on spherical and parabolic mirrors and spherical aberration. He made the observation that the ratio between the angle of incidence and refraction does not remain constant, and investigated the magnifying power of a lens..[32] In honour of Alhazen, the Aga Khan University (Pakistan) named its Ophthalmology endowed chair as "The Ibn-e-Haitham Associate Professor and Chief of Ophthalmology".[33]

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    Roger Bacon. Extracts rom Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Bacon

    Roger Bacon, O.F.M. (c. 1214–1294), (scholastic accolade Doctor Mirabilis, meaning "wonderful teacher"), was an English philosopher and Franciscan friar who placed considerable emphasis on the study of nature through empirical methods. He is sometimes credited, mainly starting in the 19th century, as one of the earliest European advocates of the modern scientific method inspired by the works of Aristotle and later pseudo-Aristotelian works, like the works of Muslim scientist Alhazen.[1] However, more recent reevaluations emphasize that he was essentially a medieval thinker, with much of his "experimental" knowledge obtained from books, in the scholastic tradition.[2] A survey of the reception of Bacon's work over centuries found that it often reflects the concerns and controversies central to the receivers.[3]

    Bacon studied at Oxford and may have been a disciple of Grosseteste. He became a master at Oxford, lecturing on Aristotle. There is no evidence he was ever awarded a doctorate — the title Doctor Mirabilis was posthumous and figurative. Sometime between 1237 and 1245, he began to lecture at the university of Paris, then the centre of intellectual life in Europe. His whereabouts between 1247 and 1256 are uncertain, but about 1256 he became a friar in the Franciscan Order. As a Franciscan friar, Bacon no longer held a teaching post, and after 1260 his activities were further restricted by a Franciscan statute forbidding friars from publishing books or pamphlets without specific approval.[6]

    Bacon circumvented this restriction through his acquaintance with Cardinal Guy le Gros de Foulques, who became Pope Clement IV in 1265. The new Pope issued a mandate ordering Bacon to write to him concerning the place of philosophy within theology. As a result Bacon sent the Pope his Opus Majus, which presented his views on how the philosophy of Aristotle and the new science could be incorporated into a new Theology. Besides the Opus maius Bacon also sent his Opus minus, De multiplicatione specierum, and, perhaps, other works on alchemy and astrology.[7]

    Pope Clement died in 1268. Sometime between 1277 and 1279, Bacon was probably imprisoned or placed under house arrest. The circumstances for this are still mysterious. Sometime after 1278 Bacon returned to the Franciscan House at Oxford, where he continued his studies.[8] He is believed to have died in 1294

    Optics
    The study of optics in part five of Opus Majus draws heavily on the works of both Claudius Ptolemy (his Optics in Arabic translation) and the Islamic scientists Alkindus (al-Kindi) and Alhazen (Ibn al-Haytham).[38][1] He includes a discussion of the physiology of eyesight, the anatomy of the eye and the brain, and considers light, distance, position, and size, direct vision, reflected vision, and refraction, mirrors and lenses. His research in optics was primarily oriented by the legacy of Alhazen through a Latin translation of the latter's monumental Kitab al-manazir (De aspectibus; Perspectivae; The Optics), while the impact of the tradition of al-Kindi (Alkindus) was principally mediated through the influence that this Muslim scholar had on the optics of Robert Grosseteste. Moreover, Bacon's investigations of the properties of the magnifying glass partly rested on the handed-down legacy of Islamic opticians, mainly Alhazen, who was in his turn influenced by Ibn Sahl's 10th century legacy in dioptrics.[39]
    Last edited by mick; 23rd July 2012 at 08:25 PM. Reason: typos
    Mick

  4. #14

    Re: How to get a little 'wiggle room'

    Quote Originally Posted by mick View Post
    If it became that established and fortified lo we have another archetype.
    You said it, Mick! I believe there is serous student of alchemy posting on this thread here and there, revealed by the way U recount scientific history, which was identical with alchemical history until after the middle ages. Perhaps this thread should be moved to the Science and Spirit section. Mods?

    Quote Originally Posted by mick View Post
    And not forgetting the Laws, some of which make patterns!
    Now you're referring to Issac Newton!

    One of my favorite wikis is wikipedia's extensive list of alchemusts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alchemists Bacon, Roger is listed under the heading for "Western Alchemists."


    Quote Originally Posted by mick View Post
    I also think that the Hindu synergies with modern religions is of interest but another tale.
    "Abram" = "A-Brahm?" So, you're an Aquarian philosopher as well!
    "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."

  5. #15
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    Re: How to get a little 'wiggle room'

    If you really feel it should be moved, I will, but frankly I think it goes well here. Ok, I'll leave a permanent redirect, so that it stays in both forums.
    https://linktr.ee/CoralieCFTraveler
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    "Stop acting as if life is a rehearsal" Dr. Wayne Dyer.

  6. #16
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    Re: How to get a little 'wiggle room'

    Quote Originally Posted by Pneumismatic View Post
    If it became that established and fortified lo we have another archetype.
    You said it, Mick! I believe there is serous student of alchemy posting on this thread here and there, revealed by the way U recount scientific history, which was identical with alchemical history until after the middle ages.
    Not a practitioner and not seeking to be but do have an interest in science and technology for amongst other reasons work, but I also find the history aspects of great interest for what it says about our forebears.

    Regarding archetypes, something I tend to take an interest in as their roles and utilisation can be noted in elements of the non-physical environment on occasions. Separating such drivers out from other conditions can be useful at times.


    Now you're referring to Issac Newton!

    One of my favorite wikis is wikipedia's extensive list of alchemusts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alchemists Bacon, Roger is listed under the heading for "Western Alchemists."


    "Abram" = "A-Brahm?" So, you're an Aquarian philosopher as well!
    Interesting link, will have a closer look. One book that I will take a look at sometime is Lynn Picknett, Clive Prince, “The Forbidden Universe: The Occult Origins of Science and the Search for the Mind of God”.

    Product Description: Were the first scientists hermetic philosophers? What do these occult origins of modern science tell us about the universe today? "The Forbidden Universe" reveals the secret brotherhood that defined the world, and perhaps discovered the mind of God. All the pioneers of science, from Copernicus to Newton via Galileo, were inspired by Hermeticism. Men such as Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Leibniz, Bacon, Kepler, Tycho Brahe - even Shakespeare - owed much of their achievements to basically occult beliefs - the hermetica. In this fascinating study, Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince go in search of the Hermetic origins of modern science and prove that not everything is as it seems and that over the past 400 years there has been a secret agenda behind our search for truth. From the age of Leonardo da Vinci, the influence of hermetic thinking upon the greatest minds in history has been hidden, a secret held by a forbidden brotherhood in search of the mind of God. Yet this search does not end in history but can be found in the present day - in the contemporary debates of leading evolutionists and thinkers. The significance of this hidden school can hardly be over-emphasised. Not only did it provide a spiritual and philosophical background to the rise of modern science, but its worldview is also relevant to those hungry for all sorts of knowledge even in the twenty-first century. And it may even show the way to reconciling the apparently irreconcilable divide between the scientific and the spiritual. Picknett and Prince go in search of this true foundation of modern rational thought and reveal a story that overturns 400 years of received wisdom. Praise for Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince: Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince...specialise in topics that challenge established and cultural history' - "Fortean Times". 'Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince...hold as good a claim as any to be the model for Robert Langdon, for their book stands at the heart of "The Da Vinci Code's" ideas' - "The Rough Guide to "The Da Vinci Code"". 'One of the most fascinating books I have read since "The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail"' - Colin Wilson.

    A book that I find of interest although lots more of it to read is "Mathmatics for the Million. How to master the magic of numbers" Lancelot Hogben, introduces Mathematical methods along with the history of who and how it was developed.

    Not sure about the philosophising, sometimes happen across items that interest, in this case it was an essay that linked many correspondences between Hindi and Christianity. http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Hinduisms_influence.htm
    Food for thought and maybe an intriguing twist on history.
    Last edited by mick; 10th August 2012 at 04:50 PM. Reason: fixed quotes, fixed name
    Mick

  7. #17

    Re: How to get a little 'wiggle room'

    You have excellent taste, mick! I have a serious urge to get "The Forbidden Universe" and also the "Mathmatics for the Million." I've got a long way to go and I feel strongly that those books hold more golden keys. Thanks for sharing! I had a friend who showed me "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and it had that feeling too, kinda like getting ahold of a big secret. This reminds me of a thing I once saw on TV that showed a list of people who were Grand Master Rosicrucians (sp?). There were a bunch of heavy hitters on there like Leonardo Da Vinci and Newton too I believe and other famous pillars of science, which I found to be very fascinating as well, though I've yet to follow up on that. I'll check up on the link.
    "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."

  8. #18
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    Re: How to get a little 'wiggle room'

    Ron, I know you know hermetics/alchemy- I have a Rosicrucian tract that is rather involved that you might like, let me know if you're interested, I can email it to you.
    https://linktr.ee/CoralieCFTraveler
    Rules:http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/faq.php
    "Stop acting as if life is a rehearsal" Dr. Wayne Dyer.

  9. #19

    Re: How to get a little 'wiggle room'

    Quote Originally Posted by CFTraveler View Post
    Ron, I know you know hermetics/alchemy- I have a Rosicrucian tract that is rather involved that you might like, let me know if you're interested, I can email it to you.
    You said it, C. I am very interested in this tract of yours and thank you very much for letting me know of its existence. Please send it to me, I'll send you my email address in a pm. Thanks in advance.
    "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."

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