Unable to AP from hypnagogic state

[dreaming90]

I've read from many sources that the hypnagogic state is deep enough to attempt a projection. I have attempted this many times, and yet can never seem to "get out." Attempts to phase directly into a scene usually result in getting lost in a dream vignette and losing all lucidity.

Chakra stimulations, energy body loosening, ROPE, and looking for vibrations (as detailed in Journeys Out of the Body) are all futile...

Perhaps I'm not deep enough. Do energy sensations generally occur before or after hypnogagia? Does anyone have any advice on this?

[CFTraveler]

I've read from many sources that the hypnagogic state is deep enough to attempt a projection.

Sometimes, especially at first. But when you get some experience, not so much.

I have attempted this many times, and yet can never seem to "get out." Attempts to phase directly into a scene usually result in getting lost in a dream vignette and losing all lucidity.

You're probably starting out as phasing but it goes to the subconscious quickly. I'm not sure what you need to do for that, except for retreating a second you get in, and doing it again a few times until you know your lucidity is staying with you.

Chakra stimulations, energy body loosening, ROPE, and looking for vibrations (as detailed in Journeys Out of the Body) are all futile...

That's because they're not for phasing, which is what you seem to be trying to do here.
Chakra stimulation is energy work, and should be approached as an overall practice for all expanded awareness practice, but it's not a projection technique.
Energy body loosening and ROPE are techniques for achieving an OBE with separation, and phasing is not that. Also, if you want to have an OBE and are at the hypnagogic state, then start doing the loosening at that moment, and then the exit technique (ROPE being one of them). But if you're merging into the astral (which is what phasing is (aka WILDing) you're already there, no exit necessary.

Perhaps I'm not deep enough. Do energy sensations generally occur before or after hypnogagia? Does anyone have any advice on this?

These symptoms happen differently to different people, I can only speak for myself- but symptoms usually happen after hypnagogics for me.
When I started, I would get vibes and astral noise first, and hypnagogics then- now, I get no vibes at all, and noise/voices/clairaudience happen sporadically with the hypnagogics, so I just wait for 'seeing through the eyelids' or floatiness to try to do anything resembling an exit.

If you are looking to phase and are getting hypnagogics, try to tune into your earhiss and split your attention between what you hear and what you see; this way you don't get sucked into the dreamscape without your lucidity, but go into it with, and can then manipulate your navigation.

[dreaming90]

You're probably starting out as phasing but it goes to the subconscious quickly. I'm not sure what you need to do for that, except for retreating a second you get in, and doing it again a few times until you know your lucidity is staying with you.

I've tried that, especially after reading Fred's advice on "drifting with an anchor." I still get sucked into the vignettes. I think I need more pre-projection preparation.

That's because they're not for phasing, which is what you seem to be trying to do here.
Chakra stimulation is energy work, and should be approached as an overall practice for all expanded awareness practice, but it's not a projection technique.

Well, at first I go for the classic exit like I do when I get vibes. When that fails, which it inevitably does, I try for phasing, which results in loss of lucidity.

I don't do much energy work. Which explains why chakra stimulation doesn't seem to work.

Energy body loosening and ROPE are techniques for achieving an OBE with separation, and phasing is not that. Also, if you want to have an OBE and are at the hypnagogic state, then start doing the loosening at that moment, and then the exit technique (ROPE being one of them). But if you're merging into the astral (which is what phasing is (aka WILDing) you're already there, no exit necessary.

So you're advising a) not mixing phasing and classic exit, and b) performing loosening before the hypnogogic state?

If you are looking to phase and are getting hypnagogics, try to tune into your earhiss and split your attention between what you hear and what you see; this way you don't get sucked into the dreamscape without your lucidity, but go into it with, and can then manipulate your navigation.

I will try this, thanks.

[CFTraveler]

So you're advising a) not mixing phasing and classic exit,

Not strictly, but not to (for example) try an exit when you're already going into a landscape, because that just puts you in your body again. It's ok to see what works (mixing both) but careful not to get yourself back in if you're out, and when you get sucked in you are already out, now the trick is to not lose your lucidity.

and b) performing loosening before the hypnogogic state?

Perform loosening before the exit, but yes, I think so. In fact, I'd go as far as saying, perform loosening before hypnagogics, and combine listening with looking at the screens before actually trying for an exit.
It's probably better to try when it seems it's 'too late' than too early, because when you try too early you get burnt out.

[dreaming90]

Ah, it sems I've encountered a problem.

I hit the vibational state a few moments ago while my son was down for a nap. It came after hypnagogia as far as I could tell. I did body relaxation and observed the images/sounds that come before sleep, at which I've become quite proficient. I briefly lost lucidty, snapped back into, and saw the vague outline/impression of a piece of furniture. I honed in on it and it morphed into the gray blob that, ideally, then turns into a checkerboard tunnel.

I completely blew it when the old "fast heartbeat" problem hit me. I usually don't get strong tactile energy sensations, but I did some breath awareness meditation prior, so maybe that had something to do with it. It felt like my heart was beating 300 times a minute and was about to pop out of my chest. Despite all my practice I was convinced that my heart was literally about to explode, and of course this ruined the exit. Now I'm kicking myself.

Does anyone have advice on strong heart chakra activity just prior to exit? I also felt like I was on top of an unbalanced washing machine, but this was not too much of a problem.

[CFTraveler]

This is sign of an old-fashioned OBE exit, and the only option for me is to use the rope method when this happens. I find that it really helps fight the heaviness and drama of the heart chakra symptoms. All I can say is that it's not a bad thing, it's something to work through- to 'muscle' through.
Let me see if I can find a page in my journal where I talk about that happening to me.
Yes, it's the very first one I wrote about, all those years ago.
http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/sho...nd-Liminal-exp

[dreaming90]

Thanks CF, I'll give ROPE a try if this happens again.