Required reading...really

**Sinera** · 26th September 2012, 10:30 AM

I see, when we try to reach "perfection" or growth here it is the perfection of an 'avatar', not of the 'being' - the player behind the avatar in the reality game (whatever it is, 'self'less or not). I still hope (and believe) that the 'being' learns or gains sth from the avatar's experience. I still assume so because it ('being') wouldn't have chosen to participate, after all.

**ButterflyWoman** · 26th September 2012, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Volgerle

I see, when we try to reach "perfection" or growth here it is the perfection of an 'avatar', not of the 'being' - the player behind the avatar in the reality game (whatever it is, 'self'less or not). I still hope (and believe) that the 'being' learns or gains sth from the avatar's experience. I still assume so because it ('being') wouldn't have chosen to participate, after all.

I would say that's more or less correct. I mean, "correct" isn't really the right word, but there is no word for it, so that works.

And, yes, I do suspect that the One is growing and learning from these experiences, from ALL experiences, even those we would consider "bad" or "evil" or "pointless" or some other adjective. I could understand if it's just exploration, just self-entertainment and self-amusement, but I admit, I do like the idea, and I've seen little things that I interpret as signs that there is some kind of overall maturing process going on, even if it's glacially slow by human standards.

But, that's more belief based on interpretation than anything experiential. Perhaps when my awareness is less limited (and as far as I can tell, awareness is infinite, so it's ALWAYS limited unless it's infinitely big!) I might see more of that. For now, it's just a guess and, yes, a bit of a hope, I think. I like the idea that it's not all for nothing, and that something is coming from all the experiences of the billions of creatures in the universe, humans included.

**ButterflyWoman** · 26th September 2012, 03:08 PM

Serendipity. I just saw this on Facebook (and I'm a BIG fan of Adyshanti, just for the record).

adyashanti_enlightenment.jpg

IA56 · 26th September 2012, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by ButterflyWoman

Serendipity. I just saw this on Facebook (and I'm a BIG fan of Adyshanti, just for the record).

adyashanti_enlightenment.jpg

Yes, and as more you cumbling away of untruth ane see through the facade of pretense as more I understand that so many still has not even started this work, sometime I feel panic, but then I here the words that ...all and everyone will wake up in theire own time, and that I shall go on with my life to reveling and lifting the veil and become more strong in mids of the chaos keeping my achor steady and calm in pure unconditional love.

**dreaming90** · 27th September 2012, 01:07 AM

Enlightenment is a tricky thing. Everyone seems to have a different opinion of what enlightenment actually is, usually depending on the cultural or religious beliefs of the person. Even in Buddhism, there are several different interpretations of what Enlightenment is:

Zen/Chan-- sudden awakening, removal of all the "crud" that has covered over your inherent Buddha-nature
Tibetan (tantric?)-- ten buhmis, dzogchen, realizing the luminous nature of primordial awareness (rigpa)
Theravedan-- four paths model, predictable pattern of insight is: Arising and Passing away --> Dark Night of the Soul -- > Equinaminity --> Fruition

And of course there are other sects of Buddhism, not to mention the preceding yogic models of enlightenment...

**ButterflyWoman** · 27th September 2012, 05:37 AM

I don't even use the word "enlightenment", nor have I ever or WOULD I ever claim to have it or be it (even if I thought I did have it). The word doesn't mean anything. I say "awakening", because it's not as loaded as words go, and it better describes the experience, plus, it implies and ongoing process, like "recovering" or "uniting". It's not a done deal. Because, as far as I can see/tell, nothing ever is.

**SoulSail** · 27th September 2012, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by dreaming90

And of course there are other sects of Buddhism, not to mention the preceding yogic models of enlightenment...

And don't forget the sheer grace model. Eckhart Tolle experienced a "collapse" of self after hearing the words "Resist nothing," which is actually the recipe (for lack of a better term) for peace in two words. Resisting reality by hanging on to the stories we've propped up creates suffering since both the story and the teller are false assumptions.

Soul

IA56 · 27th September 2012, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by SoulSail

And don't forget the sheer grace model. Eckhart Tolle experienced a "collapse" of self after hearing the words "Resist nothing," which is actually the recipe (for lack of a better term) for peace in two words. Resisting reality by hanging on to the stories we've propped up creates suffering since both the story and the teller are false assumptions.

Soul

Yes, nodding in agreement...

**ButterflyWoman** · 28th September 2012, 04:11 AM

Bottom line is: Awakening happens. All on its own, with or without the input or participation of the ego-self. It's about the Self, Source, Awareness Itself, the One, the All and Nothing, God, whatever word/name you like, waking up to Itself. This "you" thing is just the vessel through which it's happening, because the "you" thing is that which is asleep, dreaming, deluded, imagining itself to be separate, etc.

Yes, the ego-self might be interested in "enlightenment" (like there could even be such a thing as an enlightened ego!), and it may do this or that to help the process along, and, who knows, those things might even facilitate the ego getting over itself enough to allow the Self to see Itself. Ego likes to think it's all doing this or that to achieve enlightenment, but that's a delusion. The game character can't do anything at all to be other than what it is. Best it can do is understand: it's only a character, an interface (but it won't understand that until it experiences something that really brings it home).

This is extremely difficult to articulate. You have to use metaphor and simile and all kinds of linguistic tricks to even begin to convey it, and it's still only a two-dimensional sketch that only communicates the very basics. It really is something that must be understood experientially, and while ego-self may catalogue the memories and perceptions (and it does; that's part of ego's function), ego-self doesn't really understand it any more than we can really understand a five-dimensional object presented in two-dimensional form. It just loses too much in translation.

Still, when all is said and done, some books, teachings, practices, and so forth can help ego-self shut up long enough to see itself for what it really is, so, hey, if it helps, you may a well read it, learn it, practice it. If nothing else, it gives ego-self something to do while Self gets on with the business of... well.... everything.

IA56 · 28th September 2012, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by ButterflyWoman

Bottom line is: Awakening happens. All on its own, with or without the input or participation of the ego-self. It's about the Self, Source, Awareness Itself, the One, the All and Nothing, God, whatever word/name you like, waking up to Itself. This "you" thing is just the vessel through which it's happening, because the "you" thing is that which is asleep, dreaming, deluded, imagining itself to be separate, etc.

Yes, the ego-self might be interested in "enlightenment" (like there could even be such a thing as an enlightened ego!), and it may do this or that to help the process along, and, who knows, those things might even facilitate the ego getting over itself enough to allow the Self to see Itself. Ego likes to think it's all doing this or that to achieve enlightenment, but that's a delusion. The game character can't do anything at all to be other than what it is. Best it can do is understand: it's only a character, an interface (but it won't understand that until it experiences something that really brings it home).

This is extremely difficult to articulate. You have to use metaphor and simile and all kinds of linguistic tricks to even begin to convey it, and it's still only a two-dimensional sketch that only communicates the very basics. It really is something that must be understood experientially, and while ego-self may catalogue the memories and perceptions (and it does; that's part of ego's function), ego-self doesn't really understand it any more than we can really understand a five-dimensional object presented in two-dimensional form. It just loses too much in translation.

Still, when all is said and done, some books, teachings, practices, and so forth can help ego-self shut up long enough to see itself for what it really is, so, hey, if it helps, you may a well read it, learn it, practice it. If nothing else, it gives ego-self something to do while Self gets on with the business of... well.... everything.

Nodding again in agreement.....but....as me have locked me in because of my experiences in childhood, it is good to un-lock for the benefit for the greater good....I know I have so much power, but I am afraid to access it, so I need help to unlock my deepest fear, I know what evil is and how difficult it is to stop, but this life is one of the lifes where I have decided to use my power for the greater good, I have several storys to tell how my evil side has bean transformed, it has bean a hard trip but the benefits is greater than staying and continuing the evil.