Is Rawn's TMO blasphemy and can a Christian practice Hermetics?

[agapelove]

I am a 28 year old male and was raised in a very fundamentalist Christian home by very strict but loving parents. I feel especially drawn to Hermetics and yearn to be closer to God through the Hermetic exercises, but I am also a devout Christian.

Rawn says in regard to Hermetics and religion, "In and of itself, it [IIH] holds no religious doctrine yet is amenable to almost any." There are a few things I'm trying to get clear in my own mind and I would love to have your always helpful thoughts to help me better understand some of these things.

TMO seems, on the outside, to be blasphemy. In the Christian world view, only one man, Jesus of Nazareth, could say, "I am IHVH-ADNI, master of all the ages, this is truth!" To quote Colossians 2:9, "For in him [Christ] the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily."

Another passage, also from Colossians 2, brings up a few more questions about Hermetic practices and remaining faithful to Christ. Here's the quote:

"See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy...according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. ⁹ For in him [Christ] the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, ¹⁰ and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority...Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and false humility...intruding into those things which are not seen...taking his stand on visions he has seen...which fill them with foolish pride."

On the outside, this seems to be specifically prohibiting working with the spirits as in the later stages of IIH and in PME.
Also, "intruding into those things which are not seen...taking his stand on visions he has seen...which fill them with foolish pride," seems as though it may reference Step VIII and IX astral and mental wandering, as well as the Step VII astral exercises.

I know I must be missing something, that I lack understanding--hopefully you can shed some light and bring this all together.

Thank you for your help

[agapelove]

First of all, my apologies to everyone--this thread got off track fast. Let me outline what I'm not trying to do, and then re-frame the original question.

1.) I am not trying to convert anyone to Christianity.
2.) I am not trying to argue the merits or veracity Christianity--traditional or otherwise--in this post.

What I'm asking relates to my other post about the Greek words used for magic in the New Testament.

Basically, I want to know how someone who:

1.) Takes the Bible at face value and believes that the Bible, in its original autographs, is the inspired and inerrant Word of God.
2.) Who believes that our current Bible is the complete canon, that books like Enoch etc. are not inspired and were not deliberately left out as some sort of conspiracy.
3.) Who believes that what separates man from God is personal sin.
5.) Who believes that Jesus of Nazareth is both unique and the only time that God has been manifested in the flesh.
6.) Who believes in the literal, physical death, burial, and bodily resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.
7.) Who believes that Jesus has reconciled believers to Himself through His finished work on the cross.
8.) Who believes that we are all "...dead in the trespasses and sins ² in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— ³ among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body^[a] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.^{[b] 4} But^[c] God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, ⁵ even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— ⁶ and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, ⁷ so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. ⁸ For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, ⁹ not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

My question is how does someone with this belief system work magic into their worldview?

An example:

The Bible, when taken at face value, clearly prohibits things like contacting the dead. So, since the Bible doesn't specifically prohibit astral projection, then it's fine as long as you don't use it to contact the dead.

Is that logic sound or faulty?

Basically, I'm looking for someone who is:

1.) An expert on Ancient Near East culture
2.) An expert on ancient languages like Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic

I'm looking for someone who can take the point of view of a fundamentalist Christian or a 1st century Christian and "lawyer" in magical practices without redefining the plain text meaning of Judeo-Christian scripture.

So to summarize, this post is not about defending or rejecting Christianity; the question is:

How does someone who believes in Christianity practice magic without redefining the plain text meaning.

[agapelove]

Here is my problem:

On Christian forums, no one will even enter into a discussion about the occult, except to condemn it--and they generally provide little to no logic for their conclusions.

On the other hand, on occult forums no one will answer these questions from the perspective that the Bible is literally true and that it is the only true message from God to man.

Are these two things really that mutually exclusive? The more I look into these issues, the more ambiguous everything seems. I really don't care what anyone believes, what I'm looking for is sound, logical argument and debate--the kind of thing that could stand up in an academic, peer-reviewed journal.

So, this is the advice I'm looking for, and these questions are at the heart of what I have been asking about, both here and on other forums--and I have yet to find a cogent, logical, convincing, and persuasive argument, sola scriptura, by scripture alone, that lands on any side of the following questions, so:

1.) How to practice mysticism and the occult without violating any Biblical mandates (of specific concern here are mandates in the canonical Pauline Epistles.) The Bible, when read literally, clearly prohibits some aspects of the occult.

What I'm really looking for is Why the prohibition? For instance, was King Saul's sin going to the medium in and of itself, or was his sin the reasoning and desires that led him to using the medium? His reason being that God had stopped communicating with him and instead of respecting this, he went to someone other than God.

2.) Where is the line between science and magic. Examples: Hypnotism, science or magic? Meditation: Eastern Occultism or scientific stress relief? How can we (we fundamentalist Christians) condemn practices like alchemy and astrology when they led directly to modern science? Another: Refusing to believe that occultists could be right about anything because we disagree with some of their theology is like refusing to go to a medical Dr. because he believes in evolution and we don't.

3.) Compare and contrast Crowley's Law and Rom 14. They seem very similar, at least on the surface. What is the difference? Is there a difference between Crowley's definition of "love" and Paul's definition of "love?" There must be a difference that I'm missing because Paul and Crowley were very different people with very different outlooks and beliefs.

Thank you for your help and your patience.

[CFTraveler]

Agapelove, this thread may be too long for Robert. I suggest you find a way to shorten it, lest he sees it and goes

[Robert Bruce]

The practice of magic of any type, including most NewAge type beliefs and practices, are not compatible with the bible, nor with people that hold Christian beliefs.

One needs to overcome religious programming in order to approach magic, particularly things like IIH, PME, etc.

To give you an example of what we are dealing with, consider how christians react to words like 'meditation'. This word has baggage that, to most christians, associates it with the occult. But if you merely change the words to 'deep physical and mental relaxation' and/or 'prayer', no christian has a problem.

The only thing that is acceptable to christians, by and large, is what is interpreted from the bible by other christians. And even here disagreements abound. This is why there are so many different christian churches.

In order to approach the study of magic, one needs to approach life from an open and experiential perspective.

Scientific method is most helpful here, in that the most successful approach is that of being an Open-Minded Skeptic.

Many years ago, I, too, struggled to integrate my own (very light) Christian background with the greater reality. What I had to do was to get over religion and religious programming in all its forms, and base my life quest on personal experience only. It was only then that I began to make serious progress...

robert