The definition of "Poltergeist"

[Tempestinateapot]

I think you are missing the point here. You can call activity anything you want. And, I agree for the most part that pop culture definitions usually rule the day. This isn't about "opinions". I'm not trying to argue who is right or who is wrong. This is about defining and creating a model to move Parapsychology into the realm of science. I think you missed my post above about that. And, the parapsychologists who have been recognized for their work in trying to do so are the ones who are trying to define and create a vocabulary that is believable to the scientific world. Pioneers in the field of metaphysics crossing over to the scientific model, if you will.

I don't think that's going to happen in my lifetime, so I don't personally care all that much. But, for the sake of the future of metaphysics and bringing it to the masses and believablilty....

Now, where was that thread about trying to verify OBE, testing it, defining it (as Robert has with the term "RTZ") and helping to bring it to the masses as a provable truth? Or, should we just leave the future of it to the whims of the mystics? Am I the only one seeing the parallels here?

[CFTraveler]

Can't we all just get along?
No, seriously: Can someone fix the title? It's annoying me. I'm in one of those moods.

It's all good. I understand what PHG is saying.

What I'm saying is that the actual definition of the word Poltergeist is very specific, although this term may have been used to refer to several different types of phenomena, the actual definition of the word remains the same:

Main Entry: pol·ter·geist
Pronunciation: 'pOl-t&r-"gIst
Function: noun
Etymology: German, from poltern to knock + Geist spirit
: a noisy usually mischievous ghost held to be responsible for unexplained noises (as rappings)

The actual definition of a word and it's useage don't always coincide and tends to change over time. This is, at least, how I view it, and is therefore, my opinion.

I'm all for the concept of taking the mysticism out of mysticism, so to speak.

[CFTraveler]

May I add my two cents: Way back when, before parapsychology was invented, people used to blame anything on ghosts or demons. So any kind of paranormal disturbance was attributed to some sort of discarnate entity. Back when Poltergeist, (which means 'noisy ghost' in German) was invented, the correlation between the sufferer and the activity wasn't discovered, because back then such matters were not looked at scientifically, measured, etc. When psychologists and parapsychologists started studying the phenomenon, they began to see the correlation between the family dynamic, age of the person that the activity seemed to be centered around, and they came to the startling discovery that it may be unconscious psychokinesis centered around early adolescence, and using psychology to get at the patient, they found that talk therapy and things that brought unconscious issues to the surface made the phenomenon go away most of the time. So something that started out being thought of as one thing was discovered to be caused by another thing. Most of the time, of course.

Pop culture definition....

Ok, we are getting hung up on technicalities.

You originally said that the true definition of a poltergiest is a pk individual under a lot of stress, but that's only a plausible explanation of the phenomena painter That isn't the actuall definition.

I admire the work of ghost hunters or paranormal scientists today who are trying to explain the phenomena myself, but to try and totally take a word and redefine it out of it's original intent (which isn't pop culture painter, it's the true to the dictionary definition,) and then present it as something entirely but what it actually is simply doesn't work in my humble opinion.

Thus, while you do make a valid point in that it is usually attributed to pk phenomena, the true definition still stands. Hopefully this makes my point a little clearer and less antagonistic

PS seems I derailed the thread Need to fix it.

[Lordofthebunnies]

Personally, I wonder whether the poltergiest effect is not simply the result of stress and adolescent libido, but rather, an astral egregore which is created from and feeds *on* that internalized anxiety. If, after the person the effect is centered around is informed that they are its cause, the removal of fear could depower the astral egregore.

If it really was just the stress itself, I wonder why more people can't control it.

[Tempestinateapot]

I didn't detect any antagonism. I think it's an interesting topic. It seems to me that it's a matter of two different camps (mystic vs. parapsychologist) trying to define something based on their personal knowledge and experience. I think CF's thought about how most things unexplained were attributed to ghosts in the past was brilliant. Why didn't I think of that? Hehe, probably because I'm not brilliant.

BunnyLord had a good idea about egregores, but since I'm new to that term, it doesn't make as much sense to me. When have adolescents ever been known to control their feelings? I'm speaking as the mother of sons who were once adolescents. Never been one myself, so I can't say for sure. Knowing the power of the human mind, PK and stress make a lot of sense. Especially based on the documented cases. It may just be a matter of parapsychologists stealing an old term and using it to define something new that has been discovered. Perhaps "PK poltergeists" would be more accurate? I don't know, I still have to go with what I was taught, as I'm all for bringing mystical things into the arena of science. It would certainly give us all more credibility at work and at parties.

[Rayson]

Heck- just to throw out more theories, and make sure we never know , I'll suggest that the belief instilled in people by those studies- that it was all just stress- projects outwards with a message of "you're not real- you're just stress" and that sufficiently counters the poltergeist's ability to manipulate/manifest in the physical.

Eck- I wish we just "knew" sometimes.

[Tempestinateapot]

Except in that case, it would counter the poltergeist's intention...because the activity stops when the stress issue is pointed out to the originator of the activity (the "adolescent"). So, the "ghost/poltergeist" wouldn't get to have any fun any more. So, why would the ghost bother to use the kid? Ghosts can use PK and throw things themselves. Hence, the differentiation in terms and why they are necessary. See, I'm like a dog with a bone, I can go on forever. Sorry, working on that. One of my issues. My husband would greatly appreciate it if you would cure me of it.

[Freawaru]

Ah, terminology

I agree with Patty that it is better to have clear definitions.

I also agree with CFT that probably our ancestors only described the symptoms, rather than the source of the poltergeist phenomen (probably cause they didn't know it.).

But I know one case where the symptoms did not stop once the person knew it was her uncontroled TK talent. From what she told me she had the problems since childhood, too, so not an adolescence problem. She is adult, now, married and mother and they still come when she is in stress.

She, herself, is very sure it is her and not an external "ghost" or the like. It happens when she is in stress or emotional (fear, angry) and the things that scatter or fly through the air are also those she does not really like or is angry with at the time. Say, she is angry with a relative and then that relative's things get broken. So she tries to not feel anger or fear but that is quite hard.

Also, this "potergeist" had scared away a burglar once by manifesting an incorporeal voice.

She describes that indeed she feels a reduction of stress after a few days (and nights) of poltergeist activity. As if something inside her relaxes. Until it builds up again...