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Thread: Free Will Paradox

  1. #11
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    Re: Free Will Paradox

    Oh, I've gone round and round about this. Wrote about it extensively on my journal, in fact. Do a search on this board, though, for a number of threads on the topic, there might be some insight in one of them that you find helpful.
    May the light surround you, may you be blessed. May the light surround us, may we be blessed. May love and light surround us all, and may we all be healed and blessed. And so it is, and so it shall be, now and ever after.

  2. #12
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    Re: Free Will Paradox

    So I'm a little confused with the premise of the statement- that by failing to prove that something exists it means it doesn't?
    I can't prove the ocean exists, but if you go to the beach and see it, you can either decide it exists, think it's something else, or think you have hallucinated it's existence. In other words, if experience doesn't show something exists to someone who has as a premise that it doesn't, nothing will prove it because his premise is already set, and nothing will convince him it does.
    That's why in logic, you cannot prove a negative.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Free Will Paradox

    Quote Originally Posted by CFTraveler View Post
    So I'm a little confused with the premise of the statement- that by failing to prove that something exists it means it doesn't?
    I can't prove the ocean exists, but if you go to the beach and see it, you can either decide it exists, think it's something else, or think you have hallucinated it's existence. In other words, if experience doesn't show something exists to someone who has as a premise that it doesn't, nothing will prove it because his premise is already set, and nothing will convince him it does.
    That's why in logic, you cannot prove a negative.
    Well you've mentioned my own point exactly, you can't logically prove is exists, you can't prove it doesn't exist either BUT if you prove it does exist, you also prove that it can't exist so it's a paradox. You don't prove it doesn't exist by failing to prove it does, there simply is no outcome where it can exist. It either doesn't exist, or it doesn't.

    P.S.: I don't think it was a good idea to move the thread here since it's not really a question, it's more like a theory.
    Light has no meaning without darkness, without chaos there is no order.

  4. #14
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    Re: Free Will Paradox

    Seems to me that once any mind attempts to resolve paradox to a neat answer, a side is taken, and the opposition, or opposite side or pole to the answer naturally emerges without our noticing or effort. Is it a particle or wave?

    Duality is.

    But neither side, or truth presented in a paradox exists as a true opposite, the conditioned idea of mutual exclusivity spins up the false reality, putting one side at odds with the other without good reason, other than to keep you from being eaten or run over or robbed.

    Once the idea and mental insistence on one or the other gets gutted by the Inner Guru, peace is the leftover.

    On a side note, have you ever stared at a wall or carpet or TV fuzz long enough to see a menacing face in some harmless pattern?

    Presto. That's the mind doing its job and creating a threat where none exists. It's separating this from that. This is not that.

    In truth, this is only ever that.



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  5. #15
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    Re: Free Will Paradox

    Ask Gnu is really a conversation about topics that people have questions on. It's not about mysticism, its more about philosophy, and I believe it fits here much better than the mysticism forum, and out of topic is well, too 'out of topic', it seems to me.
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  6. #16
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    Re: Free Will Paradox

    Na theres no such thing as free will. Because there is always some reason why we do the things we do, make the choices we make, even if we're unaware of them and as such they decide what we do....circumstance not us. As long as we have needs, however minor they hold sway...
    I sent my soul through the Invisible. Some letter of that After-life to spell: And by and by my Soul returned to me and answered. "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." - Omar Kayyam

  7. #17
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    Re: Free Will Paradox

    I guess the next question is, what is free will to you? If you do everything for a reason, why is this different than having free will? I honestly am not following some of y'all's logic.
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  8. #18
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    Re: Free Will Paradox

    Quote Originally Posted by CFTraveler View Post
    What is free will to you?
    The premise is having the ability to choose up to n-1 options from a set of n available options, wherein those selected choices could be any but not all of all available options.

    Quote Originally Posted by CFTraveler View Post
    If you do everything for a reason, why is this different than having free will?
    Fits well with my premise, it doesn't matter you do it randomly or with reason (thinking). As long as you have the ability to choose any but not all of the options, you have free will as it doesn't matter for what reason you make those choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by CFTraveler View Post
    It's not about mysticism, its more about philosophy
    I think I got the two words confused. xD
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  9. #19
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    Re: Free Will Paradox

    Agency and the ownership of personal agency--both seem so real.

    Yet, I do not 'have' a brain that wills. The brain generates a sense of 'me' from competing and cooperating regions. That alone puts a double barrel shotgun to the whole question if one walks the question back to its origin, knowing that the self is little more than a bundle of senses coupled with thoughts.

    Does not freewill presuppose and require sentient agency?

    Go back. Go back to the root. Who or what's making the decisions in the first place, and should that being be granted a hall pass simply because it feels like a real person? Is the foundation actually solid enough to put the weight of any philosophy upon it?

    Pardon me jumping in with more Oneness blather. But without an actual 'self' the whole matter dissolves back into the ground from which it came.
    Know Thyself

  10. #20
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    Re: Free Will Paradox

    lol I guess I dont get the "random' notion...If a decision isnt made with a reason than no free will exists at all something is merely being thrown at you.

    I think yes freewill does require a sentient agency if it existed. But only circumstance exists in decision making you are forced to pick the one that satisfies and as such your circumstance kills freewill. Even if you do the opposite of what you really want to do its done for a reason driving you in that direction.

    Were kinda like fish in a fish bowl....the poor little guy can swim anywhere he wants.....as long as its in the glass bowl...what kind of free will is that? lol We dont have free will and I dont think we even want it.
    I sent my soul through the Invisible. Some letter of that After-life to spell: And by and by my Soul returned to me and answered. "I Myself am Heaven and Hell." - Omar Kayyam

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