Lucid, OBE and astral - it's realy one thing! Do not kill me

[Michael Raduga]

Lucid, OBE and AP - all is the same?

- Properties are the same
- Same tehniques to achieve

Am I wrong?

[Tom]

What I think is that it is all about perception, which creates experience. I'd say that not only are lucid dreaming and astral projection the same, but I'd add in also regular dreaming, experience in the body while awake, and that which is just strongly imagined. Everything gets processed through the same centers of the brain. It isn't as if there is an outside world that the senses record data from; perception literally requires active construction of a sort of map which represents what is being experienced. It is always indirect and it is always the same mechanism.

[CFTraveler]

Lucid, OBE and astral - it's realy one thing. I can be mistaken. But I realy think so afte years and years and years and years of trying to prove contrary...
- Properties evrywhere is the same
- Same thehnics to achive
- Space evrywhere is modeling and you can change it how you whant to do it
Am I reali mistaken?

If you go by the idea that we are really the creators of our entire universe, and already exist in it in a multidimensional way, then of course the question-statement is moot. It's all about perception, as Tom said- just what are you focusing at? The material world, the dream world, or any other dimensional existence? Perception is perception, time and space are perceptual constructs, so it's all true. Why you would spend years trying to prove how different one experience from the other is what I wonder about. Ultimately, your first hand experience is all that matters.

[enoch]

Excuse my ignorance (or lack of brain cells) CF but when you say that we are the creators of the entire universe, what do you mean by that? Could you explain.

[Tom]

From a more scientific point of view, the universe as we perceive it is our personal creation. If you shift the way you construct your perceptions, the whole universe shifts also. The thing is, though, that other people might not go along with this and their perceptions may stay the same.

[CFTraveler]

From a more scientific point of view, the universe as we perceive it is our personal creation. If you shift the way you construct your perceptions, the whole universe shifts also. The thing is, though, that other people might not go along with this and their perceptions may stay the same.

That's what I mean. What I get out of life, what I learn, is ultimately controlled by myself. I don't mean it in a solipist way, but I do mean it in a "I'm the part of God that expresses as me, so I ultimately create my own reality, or rather God creates my reality through what I think and believe, and it is what is true for me." Kind of way. I also mean it in a metaphysical "The world is connected to me in a fundamental way" way, and I suppose you could call it religious way.
Was that clear? (*Walks away cackling...*)

[Michael Raduga]

>Tom
>CFTraveler

I wrote not about perception, but about properties of these spaces. Many people say it different

Can you name general difference between Lucide and astral? (proovable by practice)


I'm not God, so can be mistaken and only want to see thing as they realy are. Help me

[Tom]

Robert Bruce wrote that when you are dreaming, your astral body stays very close to your physical body and creates the dream. It is only a partial separation usually. Sometimes the dream astral body will hover over the physical body. This is the same even if you are lucid, but that lucid dream happens in the astral body and you have the option of causing a more complete separation from the body. As for how Robert Bruce knows this, he has watched people who were sleeping while he was out of body.

[CFTraveler]

>Tom
>CFTraveler

I wrote not about perception, but about properties of these spaces. Many people say it different

Can you name general difference between Lucide and astral? (proovable by practice)


I'm not God, so can be mistaken and only want to see thing as they realy are. Help me

I won't repeat again what Tom said, as IMO he answered your question- about the only way I can tell the diff. between my lucid dreams and OBE experiences are
1) I have exit symptoms when I go OB, and sometimes can verify what I saw while outside (but not often)
2) In lucid dreams I interact with my environment, while in the RTZ my hands go through walls, etc, so there is no interaction. In lucid dreams sometimes, but not always, I can control the outcome. And finally, in lucid dreams there is almost always symbology that pertains to my life, which means something (If I'm having a particular problem, I may be talking about it to someone or be presented a symbol that represents my problem or an answer)- this indicates to me that I am communicating with my subconscious- which may be productive for many reasons.).
Of course, there are exceptions to that rule, but it serves a purpose, as most rules should.

As to seeing 'things as they really are', IMHO only God can do that. We humans can only guess based on our very limited perceptual powers.

[RyanParis]

Lucid dreams = Dreaming while knowing that you're dreaming

Astral projections = Lucid dreaming outside of the dream itself (like walking around the house with your astral body)

Out-of-body experience: A conscious seperation of the spirit from the physical body, just as conscious as waking reality, no dream qualities about it.