You ground you lose?

[xxhealinghandxx]

I too have found that NEW is more beneficial than qigong. Not that qigong isn't good but here are the advantages I have found when I was trying to find a qigong. (which I never chose one because I couldn't find a free one that professed to be as powerful as the ones you had to pay for, except for those labeled as cults).
(how do you do bullets on this thing?)
-NEW

-allows you to develop the majority of the energy body
-allows you to strengthen energy pathways, so as to continually improving the amounts of energy you can pull in.
-integrates into HFTH so you can heal without draining your own energy
-allows you to focus on psychic skills rather, but also while, increasing the energy flow within the chakras to attain such psychic gifts
-IS FREE
-integrates into astral projection, development of psychic skills, healing, development of strongery energy fields, and enhances other practices such as qigong.
-develops a sensitivity to energy
-health + more energy by raising energy
-NEW "bonuses" (http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials ... etinID=242)
-clears blockages
-ah I can't think of the rest if you want to post more just do it

-Qigong

-an ancient chinese tradition to absorb qi (chi) for..
-healing
-self-defense
-health
-sometimes activates psychic abilities
-opens and widens meridians

That is all I know of qigong. And my above summary of NEW is why I chose it over qigong. As far as my knowledge goes about qigong, I think if you practice it for 20 minutes and do it correctly, you get the same amount of qi (chi) from doing it. But with NEW you develop and strengthen the energy body so as to enhance your practice, by being able to handle more energy, and by being able to do that, making more out of the time you practice. That was one of the big ones for me, plus it is free, which I am in debt to RB for .

I was going to post this somewhere else but this is my own thread, so I forgive myself ;D

[Korpo]

From my understanding, it can sometimes take years to develop your energy system to that level using QiGong and other Eastern methods.

Well, this could be good or bad. Some people - and I count myself to them - can react badly to quick development. I corrected. I got rather sensitive to energy since I started doing energy work, and perhaps NEW played a special role about it, but I doubt it. I tried too many stuff to be really sure what effected what...

I never felt energy as subtle and as such a soft wind like I do now. Formerly I was forcing along my energy with my will, and it went there eventually. But I confused the mind leading with the energy flow - I know that now.

Now, after some months of Nei Gung I can feel energy more subtly. I can feel type and quality of the energy - Yin or Yang. I have stronger control. I can "penetrate" to deeper layers of my body and work with blockages. I can work with what my body tells me.

Nei Gung is not exactly the same as Chi Gung. Chi Gung is now used generally for all Chinese energy work, but originally it denoted breath-centered work, and working from the limbs towards the body. Stretching and working with the limbs started energy, and ceasing the work let it flow to the center. Nei Gung can be reinforced by the breath (but this isn't required) and works from the center outward. Nei Gung is not necessarily that different from NEW.

What sent me searching for Taoist practices is the wealth of background, theory and information available. Bruce is not exactly pumping out books... I wanted to know more about the energy body, and Taoism provided in a way so I can understand it. It gave me the basic roadmap, a roadmap verified over and over, and now I'm exploring with it, sometimes referring to it.

It may have been just my own fault over-associating NEW with projection. I went down the Taoist path to strengthen my energy body before dealing with projection. I had rather bad blockages that made for example my leg jerk when trying to project, and had not much success cleaning beyond that. Now within the framework of standing Nei Gung I'm working at that problem, and have some success. The condition of my body reflects strongly on my etheric and Chi body there.

On the one hand it comes down to personal preference. I like having the big picture. And Taoism provides a set of interconnected measures to go the way of healing, of longevity, of martial arts, or of spiritual work, and a philosophy that can help in interpretation of what I'm doing. I can cross-read and compare, it's not "single-source". I'm simply built to act like that - strongly systematic.

On the other hand it goes beyond personal preference - I strongly resonate with Taoist ideas. It feels like the path I should try now. Taoism and Buddhism simply attract me.

It's the only tradition I'm aware off that has astral projection (explicitly) within its set of goals to achieve along the path. It's rather "at the end" of the training, but those masters who report about it state that they strengthen their bodies and minds to go exploring for days, not part of an hour or hours. It's part of what the Taoists see beyond the death: You construct your spirit body during life, attain the ability to reincarnate as a whole. You overcome reincarnation and become a mature, self-reliant spiritual being, an immortal. Makes projection even more interesting, isn't it... ?

I was going to post this somewhere else but this is my own thread, so I forgive myself ;D

[xxhealinghandxx]

^^

Well I'm glad that works for you. I actually should read some of the Tao Te Ching, because there is actually alot of wisdom there.

So about that Yin drawing in energy thingy-ma-bob?

[Korpo]

-allows you to develop the majority of the energy body
-allows you to strengthen energy pathways, so as to continually improving the amounts of energy you can pull in.
-integrates into HFTH so you can heal without draining your own energy
-allows you to focus on psychic skills rather, but also while, increasing the energy flow within the chakras to attain such psychic gifts
-IS FREE
-integrates into astral projection, development of psychic skills, healing, development of strongery energy fields, and enhances other practices such as qigong.
-develops a sensitivity to energy
-health + more energy by raising energy
-NEW "bonuses" (http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials ... etinID=242)
-clears blockages
-ah I can't think of the rest if you want to post more just do it

Essentially the same is true for Chi/Nei Gung. Applications are in health, spirituality, martial arts and longevity.

Plus:

* You can cross-read, have several sources of information.
* Higher likeliness of finding a qualified teacher or expert if things go wrong.
* About 2,500 years of test and refinement.

There are specialist techniques for
* Refining energy through a set of conversions for the different uses - physical, emotional, mental, ...
* Treatments for organ illness, rejuvenation of bone marrow, muscles and tendons including with breath, meditation, sound and visualisation
* Meditations and dissolving exercises for balancing emotions against another (Inner Alchemy)

There is a full framework integrating all of this, sharing benefits with laymen (like TCM and acupuncture are really "spin-offs"). A full philosophical and theoretical background. I appreciate that!

Basically it comes down on this: I do not say this cannot be done with NEW, or with Indian Yoga. I do not say that at all. I just prefer this approach, where I have more guidance, a roadmap, and still can do the same things. There is a good amount of published material available - I like that.

I simply looked for myself for a framework that has it all - health, longevity, enlightenment, projection, guidance, philosophy and safety.

NEW may be much more general than I initially thought, but the context I learned it in was rather limited. Since "Healing Energy through the Tao" was the only book referenced in the bibliography of MAP that hinted on background material I went down that road.

I'm aware that Robert carefully mapped his own energy body. I'm pretty keen on his NEW book, hoping it will add to the depth of knowledge available.

BTW, Robert mixes concepts of Indian Yoga (chakras) with Taoist energy work (energy vessels) - especially the presence of the Gouvernor channel/vessel in the front of the body in his circulation exercises and the Lower Tantien hint on that. Bruce Frantzis for example has explored both energy systems/circuits through Qi Gong and Kundalini Yoga and sees them as subtly separate. It would be interesting to see what effects mixing produces.

And another BTW: Taoist teachers are pretty conservative. It's higly likely they teach slow-moving, safe techniques, perfect them, and go on. NEW and Indian Yoga can rush things, but this is risky. Robert warns of rushing many times as well. If you perceive Qi Gong as a slower way, it strongly depends on the method, level and teacher. You can very quickly, but at a risk teachers often do not want take responsibility for.

A few months down the road I got very far with Chi Gung, maybe not as far in some aspects as some of you, maybe more far in others. But stuff people consider safe failed me, and Taoism provided me with answers why. Maybe I have too much blockages too dissolve, or am to sensitive, but I prefer the gentle method - no visualisations in the beginning stages, strong downward flows and grounding, and in the order physical, emotional, mental, spiritual, no early peeks!

I'm not trying to talk badly about what obviously works for you, and works well. But there is more than one road towards the higher goals of being, and I prefer to see some nice scenery while I'm on my way.

[Korpo]

healinghand - I still owe you an answer - where do I get Yin Qi from?

First of all, your original essence is an excellent source of Qi from your prenatal Essence. The essence resides in your kidneys - not necessarily the physical ones, but the etheric body equivalent. Essence is slowly and continually converted to Qi. This is the essential background process happening from birth to death you draw on when you live.

This conversion should not be increased, for obvious reasons. The candle that glows doubly so hot and bright does so only half as long (in physical layman's terms - I didn't verify that!). But this the conversion can be used better and Essence loss prevented:

When you learn abdominal breathing, especially breathing into your lower back, kidneys and the lower Tantien, you move muscles often used less in average adults. Muscle movement requires Qi. In this case the abdominal muscles draw on Post-Birth Qi (food and air) and Pre-Birth Qi (Essence-conversion in the kidneys) in a completely natural way. Qi that would else leak away now replenishes the muscles, surplus flows into the Tantien.

You can lead kidney Qi to the Lower Tantien by meditation or other mind-moving techniques as well. Be gentle, and don't strain your kidney's Qi supply, as this can bring your Qi level there below normal, replacement is slow, and fatigue and illness may result. Be sure to draw less in Winter, because the kidneys are more prone to illness in cold weather (their extremely Yin nature can get even more Yin by the winter cold).

For males sexual moderation or Tantric techniques can become important. Less intercourse reduces Essence (Jing) loss, since the Taoists believe that the enormous life potential of the 500 million sperms is directly drawn from the Essence. While women don't need such a wasteful approach, males do, and are more endangered of Essence loss - premature aging and illness can befall men with an overactive, promiscuous sex life. This often gets hidden by the fact that especially attractive and therefore healthy men that are drawn to such a lifestyles and can attract lots of sex partners usually have quite a lot of Essence to waste in the first place.

Basic Tantric sperm retention techniques, sexual moderation, and Tantric sex where man and woman balance their sexual potentials can help in balancing the loss and safe Essence. Sperm retention works because the body reduces the sperm production when not put under strain, and increases it when it is.

Back to the Yin Qi: You can preserve the Yin Qi from your prenatal store in the kidneys by keeping them warm (especially in the winter), massaging the kidneys, and drawing surplus Qi to the Tantien in any of the ways mentioned above.

(From "The Roots of Chinese Qigong" and "Taoist Secrets of Love")

Sinking Chi generally has cooling effects, while letting Chi rise has warming effects. Chi travelling downwards benefits health, strengthes the bodies Chi-moving capabilities and can therefore allow more raising later on without ill effects. Frantzis recommends a 80/20 relation of downwards over upwards, because upwards energy movement from Earth to Heaven can overload your system easily, while downwards movement from Heaven to Earth balances, roots, grounds and can be readily used to clear blockages. This cooling, downward-moving Chi can be characterised Yin as well by its very nature. Balancing both streams so that they balance out in the lower Tantien is the long-term goal, achieving nourishing by Heaven and Earth.

(From "Healing Energy Through the Tao" and "Opening the Energy Gates of the Body")

I have problems discerning what nature Earth and Heavenly Chi are - according to Mantak Chia Heavenly is Yang, and Earth is Yin, and the same goes for Chi you draw in from the crown - Yang, and from the center of the arch of the foot - Yin. I do not know why - he still says, moving downward cool Yin and upward is hot Yang, so go figure...

These answers leave a lot to be desired, but I'm still in the course of study and experimentation.

[xxhealinghandxx]

That has had me a little wondered too. In Yang Style Tai Chi, they say you should press the balls of the feet downward because it supresses yin qi, which I think if we pressed down, would be inhibiting (stopping) the flow of yin qi from the ground. And the whole thing about Yin qi coming from the ground is strange, because people always refer to the earth as "Mother Earth". When we search for water it is always under the ground and while the sky rains, it is above where the sun comes from.

So which direction does yin qi come from, Up, or down?

[Korpo]

Well, "Mother Earth" and Yin Qi actually make sense - Yin is embodied in the female, and Yang in the male (more strongly or in relation).

This is easily observed in the average individual: Women tend more towards being cold even in average temperatures (Yin is empty, cold, etc. on down the line), you much more often with T-shirts even in more cold weather. Everything on the average of course - it changes a lot with personal disposition and stamina.

In general in Taoism the female principle is always described as empty, receiving, reactive, cold and soothing. That not simply the sexism of the time put into nice poetry and philosophy. It goes deeper. It means a man can only balance by acquiring qualities commonly described as female, a woman cannot rely on her female qualities too much without becoming weak and depressive. It just says: Balance - a whole human being is balanced, and both men and women strive towards that balance. There is a hint of emancipation in there.

When I look into "The Roots of Chinese Qigong" there is an interesting discussion of quantity and quality of Chi. Quality is described in terms of Kan and Li (Water and Fire), while the level is described in terms of Yin (empty) and Yang (full) - T'ai Chi would be "balanced" or "just right". Kan is cooling and Li is hot. Food or air produce heat. Original essence in the kindeys cools. Balancing the Chi from the Kan with the Chi from Li sources is a major goal in Chi Gung. So food or air Qi is of an agitating quality, and the Qi from the pre-natal essence is cooling. Mixing them to the right amount produces an optimal Qi for nourishing body, emotions, mind and spirit.

Organs on the other hand require the right level of Chi as well. If your kidneys are too Yin (and they have a tendency towards that), they will get sick in the long run, the same for your heart becoming too Yang. Balancing the Qi levels between organs is another major task in Qigong.

So now they got me perfectly confused, because of the mixups of terminology all the time .
* The head is of a Yang and the feet are of a Yin nature, and that is why it is good to sink Chi to the feet, else the extremes persist. That must mean Chi collects in the head.
* "Roots" describes furthermore that in the Northern Hemisphere the Chi flow is from the Lower Dantien to the Upper, because of the magnetic field of the Earth. Chi and biolelectricity seem at least to correlate.
* "Kan and Li" I saw used mostly in "Roots" and in descriptions of higher practices of Taoist Qigong - like the Lesser Enlightenment of Kan and Li, where Kan (Water of the Lower Burner) and Li (Fire of the Middle Burner) are reversed and purified (water to steam, steam is more pure than water).
* In books about T'ai Chi I've read about the need to balance Heavenly and Earth Chi in the Lower Tantien for optimal nourishment. But this only makes sense if they are of a different nature... Fire from the Earth and Water from the Sky? I'm lost here.

Basically I'm still lacking detail. The Chi you are drawing in in different exercises like bone breathing, or through the "Bubbling Springs/Wells" points in the soles/archs of your feet is surely of a certain quality as well, else it would not matter at all how much you draw in. But it does, else you wouldn't need to balance anything, or get excited, or tired. I actually guess that every upward movement of energy gets partially replaced from below and partially from circulation, but I'm not even sure of that. I need more information!