Isn't all this Kundalini stuff overvalued?

[Korpo]

I just wondered - what, beyond being "the ultimate bio-energy phenomenon" as I remember Robert writing - is so useful or nice about Kundalini?

I read through the collected Kundalini posts that were put together as a PDF. What I can extract is:
* A strong Kundalini spike can kill you.
* Kundalini awakening can unbalance a person physically, emotionally and mentally.
* Having raised Kundalini once doesn't make the phenomenon persist, just easier to attend.
* Having raised Kundalini once or several times is not enlightenment, but being able to have it raised continually may somehow be related to a state of enlightenment or not.
* Having raised Kundalini has strengthened Robert's energy system and transformed it, but his OBE capability has not changed to at will/for any length, IIRC.

Of course I cannot speak from personal experience, but when I remember what I read up until now from different traditions about bio-energy/Chi, what you may call it, this sounds not only unsafe but outright dangerous.

E.g., Bruce Frantzis, Taoist Western teacher strongly advises against too strong upward Chi movement at all, especially beyond the capability of the practitioner to sink Chi. I've yet to read about a phenomenon capable to balance out Kundalini, which seems more like you can only channel it, but not handle it.

Robert himself advises against filling the middle and upper Tantiens directly, but advises to let the lower Tantien overflow to the others (which there seem to be a lot of not-exactly-agreeing opinions from Taoist and Buddhist Chi/Nei Gung authors). He mentions the risk of unbalancing. Isn't Kundalini, with its tremendous impact on the energy system then purest Russian Roulette in that regard, with the barrel loaded except for one bullet?

So, you can trigger it accidentally, when you don't practice safe and grounded techniques. You can damage yourself beyond repair and die. There's next to no one you can trust about this because people seem to tell you they awakened their Kundalini all the time when they haven't (Robert warns himself about this). Without a "guru" to watch over you cannot be sure to be properly prepared when it comes.

Somehow this seems to me some sort of extreme sports for esoteric people. Dangerous, something you can boast about, and not a very feasible way to enlightenment. A shortcut so dangerous it's worth the long path of more reincarnations. What evil and megalomania may be at the end of the paths of those who fail? Who can tell? Even practising stuff like White Crane Kung Fu or Taoist Fire practises can seriously unbalance people, and they are surely not that forceful as Kundalini is...

It's a bit worrying that Robert considers writing a book about this. It's nice to educate people. But it's like handing out loaded guns to children and then leaving them alone after a short lecture. It's simply not okay to do so. I don't know whether Robert still plans to do so.

[Krystal]

I think I read that Robert is moving forward on his book.

Now you're absolutely correct in your information. For someone that' not ready for Kundalini - it can be very dangerous. It's not a cute little toy or a 'must attain' to be on the 'spiritual badge list' - as some seem to just be trying to do everything to advance themselves spiritually anyway they can.

Personally I've been drawn to so many different topics, techniques, etc. That it's hard for me to tell people not to learn whatever they're drawn to. But I learned later that I'd already experienced my Kundalini rising in the past and this happened to me naturally and safely. I was not working on the Kundalini to make it rise when I was not ready.

From experience I can tell you that it's a great and sometimes overwhelming experience. The closest I can describe it, is that it felt like "touching God" when I get in that rapture.

But my Kundalini does not stay risen. I am not ready for that constant energy surge.

So I agree that it's very important for people to be VERY careful in what they're getting into. But I don't want to discourage others because I learned by seeking knowledge that I was already experiencing the Kundalini rising. It is worth attaining if you're ready.

I hope that Robert is proceeding with this book if he has found techniques to help a beginner to safely raise the Kundalini or to help a beginner know if they are proceeding on what is for them, forbidden ground at this time.

I empathized with your concern about people getting dangerous tools in their hands and harming themselves unnecessarily.

[Korpo]

Krystal, somehow you are very ambiguuous about this.

Thousands of years practices have been kept secret, for two reasons:
1) The power they give you (if power is what you care about)
2) The danger they can put you in.

A lot of energy practices, martial arts and meditations can put you in serious trouble if you're oversensitive in that exact area, or even if not.

White Crane Kung Fu, Sexual Chi Gung, Kundalini Yoga, even the Small Heavenly Orbit can leave you with harm that's hard to fix where we Westerners live. A lot of people drawn to it are not necessarily the same crowd that can take it without too much risk. Delusions of power, the look for the shortcut, people easily fool themselves. Especially about topics Kundalini.

Sometimes when browsing the topics lists in these forums it seems like every energy fart or every release of a blockage or even glimpse of bliss and rapture is Kundalini, or isn't it? People worry all the time about Kundalini...

These are the people who will buy the book. At least they will, too. That's a fact. That's all I want to say.

[Korpo]

P.S.: I find it perfectly okay if Bruce wants to share his knowledge about Kundalini with others. As a teacher that supervises his students this could be really great - Kundalini Yoga from a first-hand source of information without all the mysterious and mythical baggage you cannot really know whether it is deep or nonsense. Hands-down approach, like other stuff from Robert. But I recommend supervised training, to ensure safety of the practitioners. If Robert is as great a teacher as an author that would be beyond great.

I don't know whether a book is the right medium for this?

[Aunt Clair]

Perhaps like so many other areas of metaphysical research skeptics will
* not believe until they do it themselves ,
* preach the dangers and use these as an excuse to not pathwork and to discourage others from pathworkng also
* move on and find something else to not believe in .

Kundalini rises and falls through multiple subsequent flames to enrich the life of the aspirant . It increases all forms of clairience , projection at will , manifestation ,energy body light quotient . It helps us to attain the realms , to meet with the master teaching spirits , to help heal ourselves and each other and this planet .

My 8 year old son has raised many flames without any harm .
So has my 18 year old daughter Debbie .
Daniel 19 yo alchemical peer .
My 23 yr old peer Andrew
my best mate Jodie aged 34 years old
Linda aged 43 ??
Maggie aged 46 yo
Bill Van de Berg holding at 68 years old
Tom Curran holding at 72 years old

and online
Sorlac
Cripi
Cloak
Tom
Fendico
Fairy
Talamasca

I could list more . Of l these people listed , none has been harmed by kundalini .It has caused some pain and nausea but its rewards far exceed those symptoms .

I had a bad experience twice with Kundalini myself but I have a damaged back , Multiple Sclerosis and I'm on a wait list for spinal surgery .

I do disagree with the myth of waiting until you are 40 . I feel that many young people are experiencing kundalini rising and falling spontaneously and without effort or harm .

I feel that danger exists rarely . I feel it would be expected to occur in those with mental illness , severe energy body blockages , those with physical damage to the spine , those that are elderly or infirm . I feel that danger increases with age .

[Aunt Clair]

I made an error and double posted . I cannot delete it so I will post something else in this space , lol .

Kundalini did cause an NDE in me on the two occasions I mentioned but these both occurred after I already had severe spinal damage and was over 50 years old . I do believe that kundalini can cause trouble to the mentally unstable and to the physically infirm . But I do not believe that waiting until you are 40 will help at all . I think it compounds griefs because the body becomes less flexible and more decrepit as it ages . The energy body can continue to become stronger over time but the physical body decays . I also feel in my heart of hearts that the young are experiencing kundalini flames and will continue to do so at an unprecedented rate globally and that they could use information that is timely and helpful . I feel we need to learn to embrace our spirituality and that some of our progressive development occurs spontaneously so we need to ease into it and enjoy it rather than dreading it . We cannot prevent puberty or old age , we should not seek to fear or prevent kundalini . It is our natural source of spiritual enlightenment and global spiritual evolution .

[xxhealinghandxx]

I too would also like to know where that free pdf document is.

So... kundalini can be developed to the point of a constant energy surge? I see this guy at school and he has black hair dyed slightly with blonde in some places and he's always walking really, really, fast , he has a weird look on his face and seems to be walking on air as he walks in a staggering fast manner. It'd hard to explain, it's like he's trying to outrun someone descretely like they were trying to kill him. I was wondering if he he had a constant kundalini uprising?

That's kind of a stupid question but I just wanted to tie it in with the pdf document, because I didn't see at first Aunt Clair's bold lettering and I was kinda curious about the constant energy surge .

[Tom]

Somewhere on my computer at home I have a copy of that pdf file. I'll try to find it if you tell me where to send it.

Robert says in his workshops that Kundalini rises and falls, and does not stay risen. It is a progression. It does not bring instant enlightenment, but has many benefits (which Aunt Clair detailed). Robert teaches raising Kundalini in his workshops. It is typical of him to give warnings and possibilities, and he always states that one should be a very balanced person to attempt this. He has many books planned at the moment. His next one out in 2007 will be about energy work and NEW. I'm not sure if he has included Kundalini in that book or not. Rest assured that when he does write about it, he will responsibly detail reasons for raising and warnings. People are going to try it no matter what (it's all over the internet), so my feeling is that Robert is one of the best authors around to make it understandable and demonstrate how to do it safely.

[Korpo]

This was a PDF collection of posts made by Robert Bruce about his Kundalini experiences, collected on this site. Robert details a very intensive and almost deadly Kundalini experience. His accounts do not seem it to be a phenomenon that comes lightly to people.

No offense, but I take all forum postings saying stuff like "It's easy, danger is rare" with more than a grain of salt.

I've read published books, especially hailed on the US market, about Buddhist sitting meditation, applied their hints straight away, only the most simple methods - breath counting, nostril awareness, and then head a week of high blood pressure and nosebleeds afterwards after a certain amount of practising.

All books say: It's easy, cannot harm you, it's great, can decrease high blood pressure, and gave no warnings, no countermeasures for my case. I found no clues on the web.

By careful cross-reading I found Taoist techniques listing the reason, fixing and curing it, and now try to develop a meditation practice that does not allow this to occur.

With such a highly controversial topic as Kundalini where people disagree a lot, and a lot of people claim to have awoken it, or raised it, or whatever, I can only repeat what I extracted above. Robert's posts speak a totally different language.