Skeptics' Attitude

[kiwibonga]

I blame Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy... When kids realize that it's "common sense" that such things cannot exist, they apply this to everything else, and become insecure about their beliefs. Those who still believe in these things get bullied in school, and that's only the beginning... Throughout life we are taught not to be naive... The ones who control the world are those clever enough to fool others into doing things, from buying products to signing a contract, and clever enough not to fall in other people's traps.

Skepticism is a good thing, but too much of a good thing...

[sash]

So who is the pot and who is the kettle or do we take turns.....yes taking turns is only fair. We all live in glass houses...every last one of us. My house also has chandeliers so it will be extra interesting when stones are thrown at it. <smirk>

Hey violet, that's a very poetic way of putting across the dilemma at hand.

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I tend to find it difficult to work with the word 'skeptic'.
I am fairly convinced from experience that the physical is a product of the astral and not the other way around.
I think this is also quite evident if we think about it. However someone who settles for the 'big bang theory' or 'God made everything' is just not thinking IMO. It doesn't matter if they are skeptical or not, it seems to me they just can't be bothered to think it through and then go ahead and just settle for how reality is(appears to be).

Most 'skeptics' would not propose 'really, can you show me proof of that?' when the doctor tells them they have cancer. However, when someone who hasn't been rubberstamped by the people, as being an 'authority', then a skepticism seems to be the natural response. Sometimes people tend to come to sites like this and ask for proof and this feels to me as an almost plead for help because they want to believe in some aspects of human experience that are socially taboo, but are out on a mission to prove themselves wrong and then to follow the socially acceptable trend again without looking back. That's my impression anyway.

According to definition of skeptic I think one self-acclaimed skeptic would not care about astral projection, for example, because if there is no proof, as one suspects, then there is no reason to tell others they are wrong. If one continues to behave that way then they are beginning to push people into believing that they are thinking the wrong way, and I think that is where the negative view of skeptics can come in.

Ultimately I have my doubts that either skepticism or open-mindedness is the best approach, I think at times we must surrender ourselves totally to one, and at other times to the other. The skill cannot be underestimated, that of letting go of everything you know for a few moments, while at the same time maintaining that internal integrity often called 'sanity'.

[journyman161]

*shrugs* Sceptics (those who label themselves as such, not just a person with a sceptical view) are on a sinking boat. Science is telling them that it is their very attitude that is making the experiments fail. Nothing can pass their tests because 'they make it so!'

Science is telling us the cosmos is a creation of observation - the natural byproduct of that is that if you go around trying to disprove everything, you will find yourself right nearly all the time. The Universe such a person lives in will always work to make the wondrous, banal, the surprising, dull & the beautiful, plain.

Sceptics lose the wonder of our reality, they have no glory & everything has to fit in their preconceived boxes. Being sceptical of a claim or boast is not the same as what a self-proclaimed sceptic does. Go to their sites - sceptics rip the heart out of anything they don't understand - if they can't make it sit up & dance, then obviously it's a con, the claimant is a charlatan & they hurry on down the road hugging their closest fears ever more tightly to their chests.

I agree we aren't about classifying people into categories but I would make 2 points - nobody here has done that & the ones who classify people as sceptics are the sceptics themselves.

[violetsky]

The skill cannot be underestimated, that of letting go of everything you know for a few moments, while at the same time maintaining that internal integrity often called 'sanity'.

Ah! But what if the world is mostly insane? In other words almost everyone is lost in their personal as well as family and even national stories and dramas. Would not a sane person seem insane to that world? So who is sane and who is insane? And what is sanity?

Is sanity fitting in to the insane family and nation? We allow ourselves to be controlled by our story far more than we would likely wish to admit.

Hey!!! Could you or I be the scientific skeptic next life time if we do not learn to see past your present story in this lifetime - afterall, this thread indicates our present story is causing us to be pretty skeptical........potential is there no?

The world will likely remain insane with argument, defense, skepticism, negativity until we see all our little stories for what they are.....limited experience.

Only when we see our limited view can we see: value beyond, how everything is connected, what we attract into our lives and move past being upset by people who are lost in their personal stories.

[asalantu]

Hi friends..!

Just a thought...

¿Why instead of to criticize scientist attitude towards paranormal phenomenon, not to inquiry about why science (methods and experimental setups) cannot reveal to us reality of paranormal phenomenon, putting apart all reference to "skeptic" attitude of scientist..?

Sincerely,
Ángel

[journyman161]

Hi friends..!

Just a thought...

¿Why instead of to criticize scientist attitude towards paranormal phenomenon, not to inquiry about why science (methods and experimental setups) cannot reveal to us reality of paranormal phenomenon, putting apart all reference to "skeptic" attitude of scientist..?

Sincerely,
Ángel

Well, you see, you can't leave aside the 'skeptic' attitude of the observer. Science itself tells us that the way you observe something affects the something. This doesn't matter so much when you're checking out the latest model Hummer, but when you're talking things that are more sensitive to observation, the attitude can be critical.

Science has a problem with things astral or spiritual as most of the people attracted into the field have distinctly limited minds - they need to be able to hold, to touch, to see results or they simply refuse to accept them.

When you begin to look at consciousness you run into the problem that some results vary as to how you ask the questions or when, or even who asks. Science tries to tell us, in the face of mounting contrary evidence, that everything about humans can be explained by the brain. Yet experience shows that human problems aren't being solved by this attitude - which is why the holistic approach is a growth industry.

Science is a nice tool; it's a pity so many of the practitioners are also. *grins*

[asalantu]

Just a thought...

The problem is common people (those who aren't proficient in NEW techniques) blindness. Blindness from a sensory viewpoint (not from an intellectual viewpoint) restricted to five sensory input channels. If scientist were able of to expand as NEW practitioners are, then occult affaires could be explored abroad. Curiosity will act like an initial spark when scientist shall be able of to experiment with such an expanded sensory input.

Remember, science history is founded through data gathered by means five sensory input channels. Those five sensory input channels are the basic experimental setup. With time, experimental setup evolved in microscopes, telescopes, rules, calipers, electronic measurement systems, computers, etc..

Is my opinion that a soft approach of scientist to NEW techniques, too early or too late, will make them interested in occult affaires. Soft approach, I mean, despite any spiritual or occult concern initially intended to break previous skeptical attitude. We must to be very polite in that.

Think about it...

My best regards.
Sincerely,
Ángel

[journyman161]

*grins* Um... you don't appear to have met many scientists. they are hardly polite as a group & nothing short of catastrophic upheaval will shift most of them from a view they have decided is correct - bit like the rest of us really.

A life of science is no guarantee of either openmindedness or a balanced view of the world.

But you're right; A scientist learning some of the techniques of NEW etc could be a good way to bring a logical mind to what is going on

[asalantu]

Is my opinion that a soft approach of scientist to NEW techniques, too early or too late, will make them interested in occult affaires. Soft approach, I mean, despite any spiritual or occult concern initially intended to break previous skeptical attitude. We must to be very polite in that.

I want to mean an adequate approach policy is needed in order to not exert a hard (and shocking) breaking of scientist belief systems.

The problem arises when occult phenomenology builds up "polluting" mind of NEW practitioner leading to common people (or common scientist, if you want) to think they are becoming schyzophrenic or mad. An adequate leader is needed. Someone able (may be) of thelepatic communication or clariaudient capabilities, in order to help (through convincement that shocking evidence is normal) to cross the bridge between "normal" world and "supernormal" world.

My best regards,
Ángel

[asalantu]

*grins* Um... you don't appear to have met many scientists. they are hardly polite as a group & nothing short of catastrophic upheaval will shift most of them from a view they have decided is correct - bit like the rest of us really.

he he he I know some... Former Carl Sagan, by example. He was a superb exponent of skepticism. By reference, try to obtain (from web) following book: "Broca's Brain". There are a complete chapter devoted to occult affaires from a skeptic viewpoint ("Sense and Non-Sense in Science Frontiers", if my memory serves well)

Other reference: http://www.csicop.org/bibliography/whatsnew.cgi

Sincerely,
Ángel