Electric Universe

[journyman161]

CFT: Yep, that's him - Leedskalnin (to me) has a fair amount of credibility in his theories because he has put them into practice ina way that kinda blows competitors out of the water. He knew something the rest of the world doesn't & he proved it by moving rather large chunks of stone around.

Omegawolf: Being able to model a structure isn't a final proof. Keep in mind most of the Standard theory has been confirmed in the lab. But just to spark thought, one possibility for extra mass & energy is the recent theory of a holographic universe. Maybe the mass & energy from the cosmos of which our holograph is a copy can still affect this plenum? It would certainly explain why we can't see it.

Imagine if Princess Leia in Starwars (Leia the Hologram) was able to conduct experiments within her holograph world? Would the presence of 'real' particles (mass) or electric or magnetic fields (energy) from our universe register on her holo-instruments? We know the the light particles of which the holo-Leia was composed would be affected, but would she detect only the effect & not the cause?

[OmegaWolf]

Being able to model a structure isn't a final proof.

That's true. But being able to model it without recourse to unobservable matter/dimensions/interactions does seem more scientific. Being able to model a structure also allows you to make predictions based on that model which can be confirmed or denied by future observations.

Keep in mind most of the Standard theory has been confirmed in the lab.

To my knowledge no labs have observed dark matter or energy. Their existence can only be inferred. If they didn't assume an electromagnetically neutral space environment and took into account the existing research into plasma cosmology it seems there would be no need for dark matter/dark energy. I don't think that plasma cosmology stands outside the standard model. It is just that specialist astrophysicists who are not familiar with its peculiarities have not incorporated it into their worldview.

[OmegaWolf]

But just to spark thought, one possibility for extra mass & energy is the recent theory of a holographic universe. Maybe the mass & energy from the cosmos of which our holograph is a copy can still affect this plenum? It would certainly explain why we can't see it.

Imagine if Princess Leia in Starwars (Leia the Hologram) was able to conduct experiments within her holograph world? Would the presence of 'real' particles (mass) or electric or magnetic fields (energy) from our universe register on her holo-instruments? We know the the light particles of which the holo-Leia was composed would be affected, but would she detect only the effect & not the cause?

That's a really cool theory and I love this sort of thing. How about the implications of "electric universe":

The consequences and possibilities in an Electric Universe are far-reaching. First we must acknowledge our profound ignorance! We know nothing of the origin of the universe. There was no Big Bang. The visible universe is static and much smaller than we thought. We have no idea of the age or extent of the universe. We don't know the ultimate source of the electrical energy or matter that forms the universe. Galaxies are shaped by electrical forces and form plasma focuses at their centers, which periodically eject quasars and jets of electrons. Quasars evolve into companion galaxies. Galaxies form families with identifiable "parents" and "children". Stars are electrical ?transformers? not thermonuclear devices. There are no neutron stars or Black Holes. We don't know the age of stars because the thermonuclear evolution theory does not apply to them. Supernovae are totally inadequate as a source of heavy elements. We do not know the age of the Earth because radioactive clocks can be upset by powerful electric discharges.

The powerful electric discharges that form a stellar photosphere create the heavy elements that appear in their spectra. Stars "give birth" electrically to companion stars and gas giant planets. Life is most likely to form inside the radiant plasma envelope of a brown dwarf star! Our Sun has gained new planets, including the Earth. That accounts for the ?fruit-salad? of their characteristics. It is not the most hospitable place for life since small changes in the distant Sun could freeze or sterilize the Earth. Planetary surfaces and atmospheres are deposited during their birth from a larger body and during electrical encounters with other planets. Planetary surfaces bear the electrical scars of such cosmic events. The speed of light is not a barrier. Real-time communication over galactic distances may be possible. Therefore time is universal and time travel is impossible. Anti-gravity is possible. Space has no extra dimensions in which to warp or where parallel universes may exist. There is no "zero-point" vacuum energy. The invisible energy source in space is electrical. Clean nuclear power is available from resonant catalytic nuclear systems. Higher energy is available from resonant catalytic chemical systems than in the usual chemical reactions. Biological enzymes are capable of utilizing resonant nuclear catalysis to transmute elements. Biological systems show evidence of communicating via resonant chemical systems, which may lend a physical explanation to the work of Rupert Sheldrake. DNA does not hold the key to life but is more like a blueprint for a set of components and tools in a factory. We may never be able to read the human genome and tell whether it represents a creature with two legs or six because the information that controls the assembly line is external to the DNA. There is more to life than chemistry.

We are not hopelessly isolated in time and space on a tiny rock, orbiting an insignificant star in an insignificant galaxy. We are hopefully connected with the power and intelligence of the universe.

The future in an Electric Universe looks very exciting indeed!

The above quote from http://www.holoscience.com/synopsis.php?page=12

[journyman161]

I've been doing some reading & so far I can't find much more than somebody telling me everything we know is wrong & therefore the electric universe is right. Nothing about why it is wrong or anything to actually explain what the electric universe actually is.

From what I've read of Halton Arp, he would be horrified at his name being used for this unless there is, somewhere, something more concrete than his observations that Quasars seem to cluster behind unusual galaxies.

Do you have any links to something a trifle more technical than the rather opinionated essay above?

EDIT: I have read almost all the holoscience.com synopsis & it contains no fact, just assertion & criticism of the Standard Model physics. It's been written by a conspiracy theory buff is my best guess. Various comments about how 'nobody' has thought of this or is trained for it are hallmarks of the crank. It makes them 'special' & 'superior' - real scientists speculate & theorise, they don't make statements of conjecture as if they are fact.

Most people are unaware that we have no understanding of how lightning is created in clouds. The simplest answer is that lightning is not generated there at all. Clouds merely form a convenient path to Earth for electricity originating in space. Without clouds it is possible to have a "bolt from the blue". That is happening on Venus (although the sky certainly isn't blue). Weather systems are driven primarily by external electrical influences.

Consequently the Sun has weather patterns. And the most distant planet, Neptune, has the most violent winds in the solar system though it receives very little energy from the Sun. Electric discharges from space cause Mars' huge dust devils and planet-wide dust storms. They are responsible for Jupiter's Great Red Spot and the "spokes" in Saturn's rings. It is why Venus has lightning in its smog-like clouds and its mountain-tops glow with St. Elmo's fire. It is why the Earth has lightning stretching into space in the form of "red sprites" and "blue jets", and why tethered satellites "blow a fuse".

However, nobody is trained to consider electrical energy input to weather systems.

The image on the right is NASA artist's view of lightning on Venus during the descent of one of the Pioneer probes. Venus has smog-like clouds that are not expected to generate lightning and yet the planet suffers intense lightning. This argues against the popular notion of what causes lightning

It is strange how he goes from 'nobody knows how lightning is formed...' to somehow we know Venus' clouds aren't expected to generate lightning.

Science doesn't deny there is potential difference between Earth & clouds - but the phenomena has been well studied & there are explanations. The writer doesn't seem to know that the lightning bolt actually strikes upwards as adjustment is made. Electric skies are nothing new - radiation & charged particles from space will strip electrons from nuclei - it is why we have the 'ionosphere'

If the holoscience writer is the best proponent of this theory it isn't looking good. If he's going to quote Halton Arp, he should at least make sure what Arp says agrees with what he is asserting with the electric universe theory.

I'll look further for something with a little more data & thought but I must admit, it's getting hard to maintain interest.

[Lordofthebunnies]

The Electric Universe theory and Plasma Cosmology are slightly different from one another, the EU is a more outlandish.

[OmegaWolf]

From what I've read of Halton Arp, he would be horrified at his name being used for this unless there is, somewhere, something more concrete than his observations that Quasars seem to cluster behind unusual galaxies.

From what I understand of Arp's work the central thesis is that high red-shift objects such as quasars in many cases appear to be connected to low red-shift objects. Since the theory that red-shifting is relative to an object's absolute motion in relation to the earth is a foundation of modern astrophysics, Arp's theory is a direct contradiction. In short, according to Arp, red-shift is relative to the age and energy level of an object and not its speed/distance from earth. The implication is that galaxies "give birth" to quasars which as they age become galaxies in their own right.

I think they cite his work more as a refutation of Big Bang than as a direct confirmation of the electrical theory. Although, I would assume that they theorize that the birth of quasars is also an electrical phenomenon.

[OmegaWolf]

Do you have any links to something a trifle more technical than the rather opinionated essay above?

Anthony Peratt's website is :

http://public.lanl.gov/alp/plasma/universe.html

Also the wikipedia entry on plasma cosmology is pretty good:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_cosmology

[OmegaWolf]

The Electric Universe theory and Plasma Cosmology are slightly different from one another, the EU is a more outlandish.

That's true and I have probably been guilty in this thread of confusing the two.

I believe the electric universe uses some of the implications of plasma cosmology to explain ancient myths etc. The Holoscience website is definitely on the EU side although the two are still closely related.

[OmegaWolf]

Here is a synopsis of the Electric Universe theory that highlights the differences with Plasma Cosmology:

Introduction

In the wake of recent discoveries, a new way of seeing the physical universe is emerging. The new vantage point emphasizes the role of electricity in space and shows the negligible contribution of gravity in cosmic events.

Images returned by high-powered telescopes and recent space probes have challenged astronomers’ long-standing assumptions about galaxies and their constituent stars, about the evolution of our solar system, and about the nature and history of Earth.

The new discoveries also suggest that our early ancestors may have witnessed awe inspiring electrical events in the heavens—the source of myths and symbols around the world.

Cosmology

Today, we are seeing things in space that were never imagined. We detect magnetic fields everywhere, even in the “empty” depths of intergalactic space. Magnetic fields cannot exist without causative electric currents.

The naked electric force is 39 orders of magnitude (a thousand billion billion billion billion times) stronger than gravity. The visible universe is constituted almost entirely of electrically active plasma.

In the twentieth century the pioneers of plasma science inspired a new school of investigation called plasma cosmology. Plasma cosmologists suggest that electricity is the primary force organizing spiral galaxies and the astonishing galactic clusters now seen in deep space.

Plasma cosmology has achieved surprising success in predicting major discoveries of the space age. This new perspective does not require purely theoretical inventions like the Big Bang, dark matter, dark energy, neutron stars, or Black Holes.

Stars

The “Electric Universe” extends the findings of plasma cosmology to the formation and evolution of stars and their planetary satellites.

Proponents of the Electric Universe suggest that there are no isolated islands in the universe. All objects in space, from subatomic particles to galactic clusters, are connected by manifestations of the electric force acting in realtime.

Stars are formed at the intersections of galactic current filaments in dusty space plasma.

It is electricity that continues to energize the stars in a form of glow discharge, our Sun included. This external power source explains why the temperature of the Sun increases above the photosphere, to ♥♥♥♥♥♥l temperatures of 2 million degrees.

Powerful plasma feedback effects maintain a steady output of visible solar radiation while variations in power input show up in the familiar sunspot cycle. It is in the nature of a glow discharge that all stars possess a weak electric field beyond the ♥♥♥♥♥♥.

As charged particles of the solar wind move away from the Sun, they continue to be accelerated due to the Sun's electric field.

The size of a star and its color are determined electrically and may change suddenly. Novae and supernovae are the explosive response of stars to a power surge in their galactic circuit.

Comets

Comets are electrically charged bodies moving on elliptical orbits through the Sun's interplanetary electric field. A comet’s swift radial movement as it approaches the Sun, develops arcing on the nucleus. The arcs produce jets of dust and ions that form the coma and visible tails.

Many comets are solid rocks with dry surfaces. The sharply defined features of comet nuclei make clear that they are not “dirty snowballs” sublimating in the Sun. Due to the electric force, a comet can entrain a mass of hydrogen from the Sun greater than the mass of the comet's nucleus. The unexpected X-rays of a cometary discharge can reach 2 million degrees.

Cometary nuclei reveal deeply cratered and blackened surfaces due to electric arcing. Since comet nuclei are eroded electrically, they could not survive across eons of solar system history. Many comets were born in catastrophic events only a few thousand years ago.

Planetary Science

In the recent history of the solar system, its electrical environment changed. Under changing electrical conditions planetary orbits changed as well.

Close approaches of planets led to powerful electric arcing between planets and moons. All rocky bodies in the solar system show the massive scars of these kinds of electrical events.

Electric discharge scarring is occurring even now on Jupiter’s closest moon, Io, and on Saturn’s moon, Enceladus.

Electrical activity continues on Mars, driving "dust devils" the size of Mount Everest – created by the electrical differential between the surface of Mars and surrounding space.

All of the dominant surface features of Mars show the patterns of electric discharge, suggesting that in the past a vast quantity of material was excavated electrically from Mars.

It was an interplanetary arc that created the Martian Valles Marineris, the largest known scar on a solid planet. Much of the rocky material exploding from Mars became comets, asteroids, and meteorites. Some of the material arc machined from the Martian surface is still reaching the Earth today.

This is taken from:

http://www.thunderbolts.info/synopsis2.htm

[OmegaWolf]

An article of relevance to the Plasma Cosmology/Electric Universe theory of stellar formation. Note the acknowledgement that there is more at work in star formation than gravity alone.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/p ... 50301.html