Click outs, click outs, click outs, ARGH!

[Tempestinateapot]

Whoa!!! Stargazer, you are a heck of a lot closer than you think you are if I'm reading this right.

swimmy "in a box"

Sounds just like energy body loosening to me. Which is a precursor for projecting. In other words, you are one step away from it.

Interesting re: the time slow downs... sometimes if I'm too tired, every time I'd sink down into sleep the hemisync would make an ugly blaring noise. Or I should say, my brain would start hearing it as an ugly blaring noise every time I "fell under.". It was rather like a "fall asleep" alarm, but not very pleasant. My belief is that this is not an optimal way to experience hemisync and indicates that one is much too tired to get much benefit. I've noticed lately that I am hearing more "Sleep artifacts" in the tracks... particularly a sort of burbling/burpy abrupt noise that happens in my right ear sometimes. The tone is interesting as well.. sometimes with varying tracks I'd hear cumulative bell-like sounds or voice-like sounds but I never really put too much stock in them... maybe the bell-like tone is something to be aware of as a positive indicator.

Again, you are a hair breadth away from projecting. This sounds like "astral noises". Bells and voice-like sounds? Classic astral noise. You've opened your awareness to the astral, but not quite projected yet.

You are way past Focus 10, girl!

Interesting re: the time slow downs

Hello!! Focus 15 - "No Time" focus level. If you are experiencing time as either "slower", "faster", or "no time at all", you can bet your bottom dollar you're in Focus 15.

I don't have time to read the posts past what I commented on, but I'll bet you've had a lot of other things happen that you aren't recognizing them for what they are. Because you are listening to a Focus 10 CD, doesn't mean that's exactly where you'll go. I can put on a Focus 10 and end up in any of the focuses. Or, do the whole vibration thing and have a good, old fashioned OBE. Open your mind. Believe what you are experiencing. Don't just write it off to maybe this and maybe that.

Some info: Astral Noises, Hypnagogia:
http://forums.astraldynamics.com/viewto ... tral+noise

In Astral Dynamics, p.512-513, Robert Bruce writes:Quote:
I believe there are two possible causes for astral noises:
Accidental: It is possible that natural sounds and voices are picked up by the heightened senses of the projecting double, as it tunes into parts of the local real-time or astral environment during the prelude to an exit….
Deliberate: Another possibility is that some astral noises are deliberately produced and telepathically aimed at projectors by low order astral wildlife. Robert Bruce

Dealing with Astral Noises: Any and all astral noises must be totally ignored during the exit stage of an OBE. Robert Bruce

Also, in my personal experience, I have more OBE's when doing lots of energy work. Robert's NEW is a major factor in any of my OBE or mystical experiences. When I stop NEW, everything else seems to stop or become less often. Just a suggestion.

[bastien001]

Hi all,

I've done the Gateway experience Wave I and gone more lightly into Wave II and II.
I went off frustrated because I would feel asleep. The fact is the Gateway Experience, from my NEW experience point of view now, is likely to be considerably heigthened with the silight discomfort NEW concept.
If you can work on that slight discomfort while Gateway-ing, then things may be way different. Also, learning NEW will boost many great many things in the Gateway. So I think at least NEW is a great catalyzer.
And the Gateway is a great plateform for learning and discovery.

(Ps: I'm currently a daily NEW practitionner, begun the MAP Program in Aug 2005 and finished it).

Bastien

[Korpo]

I totally agree with Tempest, you seem to go along pretty well.

Furthermore I did not think about astral noise at all, though it happens quite regularly to me. I now recognise the thought "Why the bleep they always start moving the furniture when I'm trying to relax" pretty much as the sign for astral noise. A slight murmur can happen for me as well, and once during an inner projection I had a lot of laughing and giggling "people" along, and since I was living at a student dorm, I thought "Sounds like in my room, keep it down, dammit!" I only recognised all these phenomena when I was reading RB's MAP book, it's great for that.

The first time I used a Focus 10 exercise ever, and everything was brand-new, I instantly felt the following: The sound of the Focus 10 pulse was accelerating and rising in pitch, and I felt drawn up along upward, rising, could see an upward drift in my hypnagogic imagery, and IIRC a slight hint of Astral Sight. Since I felt not prepared I stopped the attempt, frankly I was afraid because the reality of it was overwhelming - I was not doing meditation, energy work or anything like that at that time. It's testament to the potency of the tapes as they can induce strong effects even in people without a consistent spiritual practise...

I see you seem to be nicely on your way. Astral sight is an extremely encouraging achievement. Energy rushes I experienced yesterday as well. I felt expanding warmth in chest and head, and my throat was getting dry. In fact this is a long-standing Focus and meditation problem, but this time due to the energy rush I could identify it to be linked to a throat blockage / set of blockages. So I guess you are having everything in place already, and if you want you can now do several things.

You could try to project with the tapes only. When you find a floating up or rushing upward phenomenon go with it and it could well be you float out, though Tempest knows better than I for sure. I know the phenomenon since I have up until now have resisted it somewhat. And - this is not exclusive to the projection training! - you can deepen your skill at Focus 10, imprint the training deeper into your subconscious, and use the affirmation to become better and more adept at Focus 10 by counting into it. Then you can transport the trance capability to the world beyond the tapes (you know, RL ) and trance when you think it's an appropriate moment, like I did in the commuter train. This can make up for some missed sleep, for example.

So, wish you (even more) good progress and share your experiences! I'm very interested in Monroe stuff, and sucking this up like a sponge. And else you might have taken much longer to realise how well you were already doing...

Regards,
Oliver

[Korpo]

You are way past Focus 10, girl!

Interesting re: the time slow downs

Hello!! Focus 15 - "No Time" focus level. If you are experiencing time as either "slower", "faster", or "no time at all", you can bet your bottom dollar you're in Focus 15.

Hey, Tempest.

I could recognise time slowing down for myself, as stretches between Robert's announcements became virtually endless or I could hear his voice at half-speed. Surely no feature of my CD player...

But this was mostly with the Focus 10/12 tapes, does the tape not limit which state you end up in? Does the effect more often occur with the appropriate tape?

I always thought somehow that Focus 10 was an elevated state, but due to the exercise "regime" in the Gateway tapes I thought Focus 12 was for projection, as it includes exit technique training. I'm quite unsure of this, because I had this near-exit on my first Focus 10. But you have tried, so could you tell me what your experience was, Tempest?

Thanks and regards,
Oliver

[Tempestinateapot]

One thing that might help is something that I noticed at TMI. The Gateway Voyage is a one week workshop. The trainers move you along really fast. No long lingering in Focus 10. The attitude I understood (which I could have misinterpreted) was that if you don't recognize yet where you are, don't worry about it. Just keep going. They spent a couple of days (maybe less?) on Focus 10 and moved on to the next focuses. At the very end of the week, they were asking people if they could tell the difference between the different focuses. They also said there aren't exact signposts, that the focuses kind of blend one into the other. Some people who hadn't had a single experience (except to fall alseep) had great experiences towards the end when in higher numbered focuses.

One thing that's really important to remember... and easy to forget....one focus is not "better" or "higher" than the next. Robert Monroe's reasoning for not using 1, 2, 3, 4, etc., and to use a crazy number system was to help people understand that the focus levels are different experiences in the astral, not a grading system of how advanced you are. Also, the focus levels are not actual "places". They are states of consciousness. Everything exists everywhere at once. Linear time, as we know it, is an illusion. When you experience slower, faster, or no time, you are getting a real feel for what this means (time illusion).

Also, don't be turned off by click outs. I've had experiences using the tapes, getting vibrations, clicking out, and coming to in the most incredible places. Places and experiences I could never imagine in my wildest dreams. I may have missed the "exit", but who cares when you have an experience of actually Being God and knowing everything at once. My most incredible experiences have been when I wasn't expecting them. Don't get too hung up on doing everything systematically. You can put yourself in a box by doing that, and not allowing experiences because you "expect" something else.

Everybody's different, but Monroe's later emphasis wasn't on exit vibrations, exit training, etc. He became an expert "phaser", which is a different way of getting into the astral. I do both traditional OBE exits, and phasing...but where I end up doesn't rely on how I got there. Doing a traditional exit, with astral noise, vibrations, lifting out, and going into the Real Time Zone are usually more difficult than phasing. It takes a lot more concentration and practice than phasing, unless you are a spontaneous projector. I suck at getting into the Real Time Zone. Personally, I think it's the hardest thing to do. The balance there is razor sharp, and difficult to maintain. A lot of people are fooled that that's actually where they are. Reality fluctuations are your first clue that you're in an astral copy and not the RTZ. But, hey, that experience can be great, too.

Korpo, I don't think the tapes limit you to what focus you are in. They are engineered for specific focuses, but your Higher Self, your spirit, whatever you want to call it, will usually take you where you need to go that's most beneficial for you...if you open yourself to it. Remember Monroe "closing down" his awareness for protection or other things? You have that ability too, and you can let it limit what you experience. It's a good thing to know how to do for protection, but you need to control when you use it. By expecting to be in a certain place and no other, you may be subconsciously closing down to other experiences.

[Korpo]

Thanks, Tempest.

That cleared up several things for me. On a superficial glance the system seems so hierarchical, but since in the beginning you only roughly hit the spot, it's very random anyway, except that it triggers something, I guess.

Yes, I think I have closed down quite a bit, but I guess that I can change (over time).

Thanks for the encouragement. Hope one day I go there, too, but it is too much a trip now, being overseas and all. It is inspiring to know it is such a lovely location.

Oliver

[stargazer]

Tempest

Your posts have been reminding me of something that came up for me in a medium reading once... she said "You're trying to get somewhere... but you're already there!"

Actually my goal lately has not been to project... When I focused on that as a goal, some really dynamic things started happening to me and I didn't feel ready to take them on. For instance, I woke up in the middle of a projection reflex, thinking I was dying... got ripped out of a dream into heavy energetic sensations, heart pounding, feeling trapped in a loud, buzzing, dense frenetic cloud of heat and energy. Or, I'd effect a transition in a lucid dream and feel vibrations than lose lucidity due to insufficient focus and energy. I found myself facing the wide gap between reading about an experience and experiencing it... "Rob wasn't kidding when he said in AD that the projection reflex could be intense!" I really felt that I needed to work on my core skills rather than skip over them to get to the "cool stuff".. especially as the intensity of the projection exit indicated that my chakras just weren't used to that kind of activity. So my goal over the past year or so has been to really intensify my energy work and to also get a better grasp of basic meditation and trance meditation. If any lucid or astral experiences came along, I'd welcome them, but they were not an immediate goal.

The use of the hemisync tapes was to help effect my goal of maintaining a good solid Focus 10... mind awake, body asleep. I can skitter all over the place and experience trance-like sensations of "box over head" or "no time" and hear astral noises, and even touch upon lucid dream experiences... clairvoyance... etc... my issue is that I don't feel that I have good, conscious control over these experiences. For instance, I can concentrate and fall a little bit "under" into Focus 10/12 and experience a vision that refers to an issue I'm posing, but I always experience these things as a remembered experience, as if I was asleep / slightly out of it when I experienced them. Rather the way the brain files an astral experience sometimes, like a recollection / memory vs. a "no break in consciousness". I'm trying to develop better lucidity / stability in entering these experiences so that I have better control and direction. I guess drifting accidentally through Focii doesn't have as much value to me as intentionally directing myself forward. Which is why lately I've been sticking with Focus 10 til I really feel like I've mastered it. I guess I should ask, though... would it be valuable to just continue forward and listen to the other tracks? Since as you say the folks at TMI don't dawdle and move you right forward? I spose I could give it a try, I guess I just listened to the Free Flow and it said "repeat the mantra" and I was like "uh oh, I don't have the mantra down, I better go back and keep listening til I have it down" ... also because I feel like I really haven't nailed down "Mind awake, body asleep" QUITE yet. It's more like "Mind slightly somewhat under / over awake, body asleep" ... but maybe it wouldn't hurt to keep going?

Oliver, I too would love to go TMI one of these days... Nothing like being in an environment of like-minded folks and no distractions to really set some awesome things in motion. Focus 10 is going well... lately I am sitting up and listening to the exercise, and find myself losing whole gaps of time entirely without any awareness of losing them! I've mentioned this phenomenon before, but now it's QUITE prevalent... I'll be sitting there, listening hard, relaxed and waiting for the next cue, and when he starts talking he'll be THREE cues later! Last night I listened quite carefully to the exercise and somehow lost the entire last 10 minutes... I was waiting for him to start the countdown to Focus 10 and instead of THAT countdown, he was starting the countdown to coming back to consciousness!!! Since now it's less likely for me to stay completely awake through it, time to do the exercise earlier in the day and without any head support. I am really feeling good about my progress as I wasn't experiencing this kind of thing before at all when I started.

-Andrea

[Korpo]

I really felt that I needed to work on my core skills rather than skip over them to get to the "cool stuff".. especially as the intensity of the projection exit indicated that my chakras just weren't used to that kind of activity. So my goal over the past year or so has been to really intensify my energy work and to also get a better grasp of basic meditation and trance meditation. If any lucid or astral experiences came along, I'd welcome them, but they were not an immediate goal.

Hello, Andrea.

This is exactly how I was feeling and what I was doing last year!! (<= It really awards a 2nd exclamation point I think! )

Seeing the stuff work - 2 inner projections where my consciousness drifted free in a dark space, but my ears were still connected with my hearing, drifting close and away, astral noise, etc. - gave me the creeps. Suddenly I knew it was real. That somehow suppressed the playfulness I felt before, as I became afraid.

I took a look on RB's MAP, at all the not directly projection-related exercises (everything but exit techniques and body bounces), and tried to work me deeper into that - breath work & mind taming became meditation, energy work became Qigong, affirmations and imaging became self-hypnosis, etc. If I look back, so much has changed in my year. I realise that back then my body was in dire need of being healed or un-tensed, that I needed to make my energy flow again, and now I'm better prepared than before, and I guess this will indeed help, as I now can handle Focus 10 better than before, and feel this state in another way than before.

... also because I feel like I really haven't nailed down "Mind awake, body asleep" QUITE yet. It's more like "Mind slightly somewhat under / over awake, body asleep" ... but maybe it wouldn't hurt to keep going?

I think it could even help. What you're trying now is hitting a certain "band" within the range of consciousness, but you are still skipping in a wider band than you intend. It happened to me a lot in the beginning as well.

If you switch between the guided Focus 10, 12 & 15 tapes you might get a better feel for what those bands are you are trying to hit. Furthermore any of these states is associated with a certain energetic experience. This all should help your mind nailing these things down. In the end effect nothing "untowards" can happen, the foci are very powerful yet gentle.

Focus 10 is going well... lately I am sitting up and listening to the exercise, and find myself losing whole gaps of time entirely without any awareness of losing them! I've mentioned this phenomenon before, but now it's QUITE prevalent... I'll be sitting there, listening hard, relaxed and waiting for the next cue, and when he starts talking he'll be THREE cues later!

I did the exercise "Release & Recharge" lately. It was very nice, but something "odd" happened. I was concentrated on the Energy Conversion Box exercise, as it is the main point to draw upon later in the exercise. The signal rose into Focus 10, I followed. And then I noticed I had simply took on Focus 10, but I can remember no one counting! It happens, it was Focus 10 nevertheless.

You should try to listen to that exercise, it can help release a bit of the worries one has. One year ago I did it and felt not much, and my mind was inserting huge gaps between verbal cues and acustic release cue (bubbles! ), and I didn't feel much happen in the way of the exercise itself. This time I could feel the energetic sensations, and the sensations of the exercise were different from what I expect. Expectations actually hurt here.

So I was taking a symbol out of my ECB, and floated it away. A certain release could be felt. And the symbols became more spontaneous. And the underlying emotion surfaced as well, if you stop looking and let it happen - it's a bit "fuzzy" at first, but the process works. As I was told to "recover the memory, take in its energy" I did not come up with a memory as expected, but I am not the visual type anyway, but I did for sure get an influx of energy, I tell you.

This is a good exercise to establish communication with the subconscious and the higher self within a Focus 10 framework, and at the intuition parts it help to expect nothing at all and let go, and then put all those "stored up" activity in the following visualisations. It can begin the release & healing of issues like fears I think, though, as they say, it's no panacea. It still requires "work" - persistent effort every so often. Well, who would have guessed?

Last night I listened quite carefully to the exercise and somehow lost the entire last 10 minutes... I was waiting for him to start the countdown to Focus 10 and instead of THAT countdown, he was starting the countdown to coming back to consciousness!!! Since now it's less likely for me to stay completely awake through it, time to do the exercise earlier in the day and without any head support. I am really feeling good about my progress as I wasn't experiencing this kind of thing before at all when I started.

The focus tapes seem to work with the unconscious part of your mind if you "blank out", IIRC. The guided tapes I'd guess more than the "free flow", but that's only a thought of mine. So you learn anyway. Try to keep focussed, it should help.

RB's tips on this are good, how to stay within trance without falling asleep or losing lucidity. I think you are employing worthwhile strategies already, anyway!

Nice to hear from you, and wish you the best,
Oliver

[Tempestinateapot]

Stargazer, several things came to mind while reading your last post. The biggest one is only my opinion, but it's something I've heard other projectors also say. If you get vibrations, start lifting out, go with it. If you shut it down out of fear, that becomes a reflex and makes it much more difficult to exit later when you are trying. This happened to me, and, unfortunately, at the time, I knew absolutely nothing about projecting except that I'd heard of it. I was lying down, and simply said to myself, "I could leave my body, no problem". It was the easiest time I've ever exited, but I slammed back in my body (literally) out of fear. The sound I heard was like a train was roaring through the room...it was that loud. The vibrations felt exactly like a jack hammer was strapped to me. But, the more you practice and actually "get out", the milder the vibes and noises become. Most times now, I never even have them. I rather miss them, because it was actually pretty cool. But, you've got to get the fear out, or it will follow you. Going with the exit and ignoring sounds, pounding heart chakra, and vibes will eventually show you there is nothing to be afraid of. You don't have to be an advanced OBE'r to just walk around in your room. Leave a light on, and it isn't so scary at night. It's really hysterical when you can't completely get out. One in particular that cracks me up is the time I got completely out, except my head. I was hanging upside down with my energy head stuck to my physical head.

I have a feeling that no matter how much energy work you do, you are still going to have crazy exit sensations until you've done it enough for them to become mild or non-existent. I could be wrong, but it seems like one of those crazy hazing tests you have to go through...like eating a goldfish to get into a fraternity.

The Monroe mantra?? Yeh, I got this much memorized..."I am more than my physical body, blah, blah, blah". Seriously, I never used it. For what it's worth, IMO, you are stuck in a box of having to do everything just right. Conversion box?? Yeh, that went out the door after the first time. I couldn't decide what color or how many jewels to put on it, or....I'm an artist, so you get the picture. It was more distracting than the stuff I was supposed to put in it. Toning? Made my throat tickle and me cough, so that went into the round file, too.

My point is that if those things work for you, great, use them. If they don't, don't get hung up on them. There's more ways than one to skin a cat...oh, I mean, skin your body by OBE'ing.

When you click out...you always get out. The part to work on is remembering it. Which just takes practice. As Robert recommends, the first several times you get out, say whoopie and dive back in. You will download the memory a lot easier. Staying out and having adventures is cool, but when you can barely remember them, it's frustrating. You can stay out longer each time.

P.S. - You are aware that Monroe stopped traditional exit OBE'ing years later after his first book and just used phasing? You can have great adventures just phasing.

[Korpo]

Hey, Tempest.

How does one "phase"?

Regards,
Oliver