I think I did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[upstream]

Nice discussion.

I do not believe that the worth of a book or a human can be judged by their overt appearance .

Nobody said that (but it's true lol). I can tell people's personality at first sight. It's all on their faces. It may be difficult to find the right words and verbalize these impressions, but I instantly know how to relate. Not but that it should change my behaviour towards my partner in any sensible way, no.

And this has nothing to with Chia. I don't know him personally. The only negative I feel about him is defensiveness, maybe resentfullness. I'm sorry if my opinion came across harsh. Instead of stroppy I meant unrestful (damn dictionary), and I insist to that lol.

Ok let's leave the man alone now. I think we both agree that both kundalini and taoist yoga have the same subject, the energy body. But these systems have striking differences in their goals and methods, which may in the long run destruct their credibility. At the very least, the basic concept of kundalini yoga with the 7 main chakras seems to be incopatible with the 3 dan-tien of the taoist alchemy.

So we want to bring these systems under a common understanding and build an integrated practice. Only after we have a common framework, can we under the control of clairvoyant feedback, design better energy practices. Without this preliminary understanding, clairvoyance at best is just a snapshot of colorful blobs.

Kundalini and kriya yoga gives little attention to the purification process (it is left for hatha and pranayama yoga) and ventures directly to the deepest level of the energy body, the shusumna. In chineese systems, much more emphasis is given to ensure the free flow of energy within the meridian system right from the beginning.

It wasn't my intention to present an all encompassing theory on the energy body or provide new energy exercises. Even if i were qualified I couldn't take that responsibility. I just wanted to make notes on a couple of processes I've found to be probable and unknown. It's unlikely, for example, that the scull bones, if involved at all, have a significant role in the external aspect of kundalini.

I rarely do any hard core energy exercises anymore but I plan to venture into kriya yoga albeit with an important difference. I plan to practice in the pre OBE and OBE state.

Currently my main practice is zhan zhuan qi gong. It's a very slow and passive method, rather tedious at the beginning. It's designed to provide a safe way to grow both energetically and in endurance, without consciously interfering with the process. It doesn't rely on imagination to evoke energy currents yet produces strong energy sensations if blockages are present. I started it after 6 years of Iyengar yoga to support my sungazing practice and to establish a strong root. Now it has outgrown its initial premises and became the backbone of my practice. One needs to do some meridian streching before standing and basically thats all (I still use yoga for that along with ba duan jin.) It's a powerful and simple practice.

ZZ is like doing cardio exercise and meditation at the same time. The standing position also favors vertical integration which is my most important goal with qi gong. My energy body appears to be free from constraints and my current goal in qi gong is to fully establish this vertical flow and build the antakarana. I still practice energy accumulation and gentle bone marrow washing though. But I do it on my own way, based on the theories I presented. There is nothing more practical than a good theory I can assure you. Basically I revise the fundamental centers again and again while I am letting ny practice to correct itself in an iterative way. My health is not perfect (I have allergy to ragweed and probably hemorrhoid) but I wasn't sick in over 10 years, not even with cold.

Basically I do the same for trance meditation, but I give more attention to tensions and newly formed blockades. I expand and repack the energy body segmentially then the whole of it at once. I also reconnect to the axial flow between the center of Earth and the Universe and that's all. At mornings I turn onto my stomach and proceed with a simple projection technique, which usually begins with imagining cleaning surfaces (lol) then forcing silence and absorbing my attention in inner sensations, such as vibrations, noises and lights.

My greatest problem with Bruce's and especially with Chia's methods that they try to imprint all kind of energy routes we don't yet fully understand. Even if the hardwiring of the energy body presented in their work is correct such undertaking is premature or completely unnecesseary. I mean I don't want to regulate the perspiration glands in my armpits. We have evolved out of the cellular, etc. level and integrated those sub-selves into human consciousness.

So I developed my own way to do energy practices within the safe framework of zhan zhuang. Instead of following esoteric energy routes I focus my attention on the elements of a functional unit I want to regulate or just conscious of.

For example, the first thing I feel when I begin to stand is warmness in my hands and the soles of my feet, as well as a pressure on my forehead and vacuum in my lower dantien. Then may come the pulsation of the sacrum and pressure on the ears. So I know these parts of the energy body are connected. This way I identified remote structures in the body that form functional units. So taking energy accumulation as the simplest example, I would concentrate on the sensations of the soles of the feet, palms of the hands and the lower dantien at once. I dont care how the channels are supposed to wind around in the legs and arms. I just focus on my intention to accumulate some extra energy. I focus on the soles of the feet while breathing in, condensing the chi into the lower dantien while breathing out. Then I just let them doing their thing. It's very basic stuff and beyond this, and grounding or connecting to the vertical flow, I really don't do anything.

Nice discussion Aunt, I will catch up with you and answer your questions tomorrow or the day after.

[upstream]

As I begin to read these 5 posts I wonder is this your "works" ? By that I mean have you extrapolated this information from reading a variety of texts and now regurgitate it here or is it authentic alchemical works ?

Authentic works can be replicated metaphysically ;

*Have you seen these structures clairvoyantly and may I and others see them clairvoyantly to and so confirm your works ?

*Likewise , can you feel this flow and feel these energy structures and may I and others feel them and find them to be as you say ?

* Have you heard this information in meditative trance from immortal teachers and if so from whom , that I might evoke them and hear the same lesson clairaudiently ?

* Have you witnessed these structures in readings that I might be able to replicate ?

* And will these works benefit humanity substantively . That is . are they practical in nature ? Can I take away from my reading of your works a practice by which I could improve my energy intake , its flow and its retention and by this develop my energy body further . Could I take from your works something tangible to share with my peers ?

* Or is it merely a descriptive text discovered by eclectic consumption of the esoteric works of ancient sages which was once derived in their own mystic visions ?

* Does it lack originality ?

* What is the source ?

Lol easy on me. It wasn't my intention to save the world the other day, just posted my recent theories on the energy body. I thought I would better share than to keep it to myself. Many of my ideas are indeed came from deep trance and I enjoy a great influx of information, but I'm not in contact yet with immortal masters.

Why do you think that immortal masters should know about this btw? They only know what everybody knows. When something is new its new entirely. I hope immortal masters will catch up if they haven't already.

On a more serious note, until we don't have the symbols and proper language to understand the energy body we cannot receive the information. What we cannot verbalise or imagine we forget. The archaic symbols of yoga and alchemy are certainly reached their limits or it was jut the human consciousness that evolved beyond them. In this post I'll show the basics of a new descriptive language I'm developing for the energy body (as far as my poor English allows).

But of course the crown chakra affects the brain , the brainstem and the spinal cord . This is historically known and has been suggested in Sanskrit works over five thousand years ago . Have you read the Upanishads , Vedas and Tantras ? The chakras are first illucidated upon therein and they were certainly imaged on the spine and the main gates were known to be the crown and root chakras .

I've read parts of those texts except the Tantras maybe but I believe I'm quite familiar with the traditional concept of chakras. I have no doubt whatsoever that the chakras when perceived clairvoyantly come through as being located along the spine. But it doesn't mean there is actually something there, just like there are no small people inside the TV set.

We shouldn't forget that we don't yet even have scientific evidences supporting the existence of chakras at the first place, no measurable energy vortexes or any kind of fields that are not supposed to be there, nada. The popular belief regarding the connection that exists between chakras and different glands or plexuses is absolutely theoretical, too. And we didn't even mention the fact that different systems don't even agree on the number of chakras or their locations.

Therefore, clairvoyanly seeing a specific set of chakras where they should be according to a given tradition doesn't prove anything. At least it certainly doesn't disprove that chakras are first off informal (astral objects) that are projected onto the holographic body image from who knows what origin by a brain related mechanism. After all, if the perception of chakras weren't separated in space, we wouldn't be able to manipulate them with our space accustomed minds.

[quote:2akst57s]This post should not be new for those who are interested in energy work. Basically we can say that the external aspect of kundalini is feed on internal and external chi, prana, or whatever terminology you prefer. I'd say that the energy sources of the external aspect of kundalini are (1) atmospheric ions / "ground prana" accumulated by the lungs and tertiary energy system, (2) metabolic chi derived from food by the digestive system, and (3) the so called ching chi of the sexual organs (represent an external storage itself which gonna be wasted otherwise). All these pools can be mobilised and converted back to "metabolic chi" (bioplasm).

I fundamentally disagree. The main gates to the energy body are at the alpha and omega apertures each flowing into the two primary kandas which occur at either end of the spinal chakral column on the crown and at the perineum respectively . All kundalini begins to activate here as the prana enters ripened pathways which have become ready to recieve her . She moves through these 2 major pathways to the chakras , stones and the spine . It is not particular to the lungs or stomach . [/quote:2akst57s]

With all my respect, this is non sense. The alpha and omega apertures belong to a much more subtle layer of the energy body than the pranic / chi accumulation system. The archetype of the latter is a tree or pyramid, whereas the apertures belong to the archetypal bindu shape, the torus. I'm not even enitrely sure that those openings are for absorbing any kind of energy. The energy I was talking about as being the primary source of the external process is chi (derived from food, earth and air).

I think what you call two kandas at the respective apertures are the two projections of the original bindu, separated or bloomed out in space according to the linear / vertical properities of the human body. The midway point at the thokar is the geometric centre of the toroidal field and closely related to the original bindu, the Sun and Higher Self.

It's strue that at the physical / external aspect of the system we have the corresponding energy fields of the brain, heart and the "abdominal brain" but still, I think the clairvoyantly witnessed structures are genuine informal objects that are projected onto the human form. As you can see I'm insecure about these things and aware of my lack of understanding. If you think you have fully understand my point of view I would like to hear your opinion where my model went wrong.

[quote:2akst57s]The pineal gland, the thalamus and the third ventricle's standing photon field, that modulates the work of the thalamus and the pineal gland, are the three most important brain structures, that without doubt, are involved in this mysterious process I call implosion, and in the support of brain bounded consciousness in general. They all together make up the middle of head center I call head bindu.

The head bindu is a projection itself, too, the in-brain projection of the original bindu through which consciousness has been broken out into physical reality. The original bindu has other projections besides the head bindu. It also manifest at the middle of the two other main cavities, chest and pelvis.

This rings true . I would like to read more on this . [/quote:2akst57s]

[quote:2akst57s]I call these points thokar and kanda, maybe not quit correctly, to remember the traditions I came from.

I see various metaphysicists refer to the crown or the perineum as "the" kanda . I see them as reciprocal kandas . In meditation we were taught the seat is the Throne of God and the scalp is the Crown of the Goddess .
We saw nadis build up like a fountain from the throne and later cascade down like a chandelier from the crown . When they meet in the heart , this begins to cure the Sunstone . [/quote:2akst57s]

I can see how this is true. The energy also cascades down to the foot to encompass the entire field. Long ago the descriptive voice I'm familiar with from my OBEs told me in paralysis that I had to expect three bumps or jerks at separation. I never actually experienced the process this way, maybe I'm not attentive enough, but a couple of years later I finally understood what he was talking about. Seems like the energy body has three interwoven compartments and all of them accessible from the previous in a linear manner (although linearity isn't necesseary) through a weird mixture of the thoroid (spheric) and circular (linear) topology. The end result looks like the topologic weirdo called Klein bottle. I will elaborate on this later to explain the first level of transition from the physical body to the bioplasm body.

Please define and link me to a sanskrit meaning of the name "Thokar ".

As far as I know thokar was a hindu prince. It also the umbrella name of various kriyas designed to drill the heart knot (second or thokar kriya). I use this term not quite correctly to identify the center of the 2nd compartment of the energy body which is related to the middle dantien and the thalamus.

The organs of the physical body that most affect the manifestation of kundalini are the brain , heart and lungs. The stomach and intestines are not primary organs of kundalini manifestation and remain unimportant .

This view will likely change in the near future. There is no doubt about the importance of the heart and lungs in our energy make-up. I also agree that the stomach does not seem to be of much importance, but guts are another thing. Even Mantak Chia aknowledges this and pinpoint the gut's microvilli as possible material candidate for the lower dantien. I might add the junction where the common iliac veins join to form the vena cava inferior and the surrounding fat tissues as well. The pulsation felt in the abdomern when the LTT becomes active is likely due to the actual physical pulsation of this vena trunk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferior_vena_cava
http://www.biotronik.de/sixcms/media.php/55/A_V_E.gif
http://www.chirurgiavascolare.com/foto/cava1.gif

Another related thing and my main point in this post is that the energy body is easily accessed by enliving gut feelings. In many ways gut feelings represent the lower end of the somatosensorium. Acting like a bridge between the internally perceived body image and the energy body gut sensations provide a sensory-energetic interface for the energy body. According to the Penfield homonculus' when one sweeps his attention across the outer surface of the body up on the leg, out through the arms then turning inside at the mouth and continue through the esophagus finally reaching the small intestine, a linear sweep of neural excitement is caused on the somatosensory cortex from the top of the head towards the temporal lobes (see the sensory representations of the Penfield homonculus). I call this maneuvre Penfield-retracton and usually repeat it many times after relaxation to have a better grasp on gut sensations and eventually the inner noise field.

The enitire route follows a topology similar to that of the Klein bottle (you need to google for a clear picture of the Klein bottle to understand the followings...try this http://web.ncf.ca/ek867/klein.bottle.jpg). The point where the inner tube of the Klein bottle drills its outer surface represents the point where consciousness leaves the physical-sensory domain of existence and enters the etheric body. If I want to press further on this analogy I'd identify the external loop of the bottle with the bioplasm cable (which I can feel after separation connected to my navel when I try to feel for the cause of the backward pull).

The point where the internal tube drills the surface and becomes the external loop corresponds to the navel center. Gut feelings are assembled here. Probably not by mere coincidence that I often felt and described my cable akin to an outstretched gut.

The Klein tube then turns inwards to make up the bottle's external surface. This phase represents the actual implosion of consciousness into the central channel (in conenction with the mysterious continuity of the crown chakra with the body and its environment). The reason why vibrations tend to peak after separation is that they are associated to the actual implosion (which may or may not take place during a bioplasmic OBE).

The ajna and navel center are the two natural focal points where conscious activity is assembled prior to implosion. You may feel pressure or vibrations at one or both of these centers before entering deep trance. One can use these centers purposefully to collect and gather themselves before venturing to the stage of shutting down the cortex by forced supression of thoughts.

I've found that the ajna center is best established by repeatedly breathing between the perineum and the forehad. This is not spinal breathing, nor breathing through the central channel. It's breathing through the lateral channels, ida and pingala, in order to synchronize lateral activities for implosion or kundalini rising.

Kechari mudra helps in the next stage. If you cannot perform advanced kechari and don't want to cut the frenulum I advise you to imagine your tongue touching the pineal gland. Then you can activate the navel center by sort of splitting of ajna activity and swallowing it down into your guts following the Penfield route by repeated sweeps. Besides the sensory / Penfield component this route has a physical component as well. Large gulps of saliva filled with chi may help even though the actual pathway follows the nervus vagus from brainstem to the center of the abdominal brain.

The ajna center is directly related to the frontal cortex and self-awareness, while the navel center is both a projection of the temporal lobe activity (or rather induced instability which can cause stomach cramps and even gases) and the actual body center of the abdominal brain. I prefer navel center over the ajna for OBE because temporal lobe activation, as a result of Penfield retraction, also increases activity in the auditory cortices (they are close to each other). So I can let my favorit thing to do for attaining silence, which is absorbing my attention into the inner noise field, separating tones, making the hiss overflow or turning it into music.

As far as I understand, this Klein bottle like topology is more than a visual symbol of the internalisation / trance process. It actually stands for as the topological fusion of the circular and thoroidal features of the energy body and provides the bridge between the circularly shaped vital processes (represented by the top level microcosmic orbit) and the spherical / toroidal shape of the subtle consciousness field with the apertures. I believe there are at least two other working instances of this weird topological maneuvre at the respective entrances of the energy body's two other compartments and corresponding dantiens. The three dantiens are not on the same layer of the energy body!

I do not find the bones to be so "hollow" as to allow such primary flow nor do I believe them to be the primary conduit of the energy flow . I do not subscribe to bone breathing . I do find the limbs are important but secondary to the spine and consequently developing after the chakras are filled and the stones are cured .

The skeletal system is a framework of support for the physical body . The energy meridians are not in the deep marrow of the bony fibers . The meridians are much more nebulous and can be seen to run through organs and bones without constraint .

Energy conduction is possible at many levels of the body from dense and localised channels like nerves and bone marrow to subtle and delocalised pathways like extraordrinary meridians or the bones crystalline structure. Bone marrow are amongst the most important conductors at the physical level and certainly in pair with nerves.

Actually the bone marrow is full of nerves and neurons, and high conductivity protein solution. Moreover, in traditional cheenese medicine the brain is considered to be analogous to the bone marrow and often called the see of bone marrow. We also shouldn't forget Mantak Chia who is fairly serious on bone breathing.

The concept of soul is strongly linked to the bones. I think the skeleton system has some not yet known electromagnatic properities that connect the body to the Earth's magnetosphere. This connection is fairly obvious in specific styles of zhan zhuang where the body is carefully alinged like an antenna.

It should not be by chance that the pineal gland is in the focal point of the scull (see imposion of consciousness). The pineal gland is already recognised as the master regulator of the circadian process. The ultimate zeitgeber that helps to synchronize Earth and body electricity at the pineal gland is related to a distinct band of magetospheric activity (peaks at 10Hz in the ultra low frequency range).

It's no an exaggeration therefore to call the pineal gland grounding gland and using its projection, the kanda in the center of pelvis, to connect to the Earth's core.

http://www.affs.org/html/biomagnetism.html
http://www.normanallan.com/Sci/Crystals.html
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/k ... awler=true
http://www.eleggua.com/Spirit/Osterried ... sness.html
http://www.paranet.fi/paradocs/keskustelua/pitkanen.pdf

[Tempestinateapot]

I just want to address a couple of issues here. The first is in regards to Korpo. When I asked him to be a moderator, he very modestly expressed that he wasn't sure it would be appropriate as he consistently uses an energy work practice other than Robert's NEW. I believe we can all learn from each other. No one is going to agree with every word Robert speaks or writes. We all have our own paths, and they are all legitimate. I was impressed with Korpo's intelligence, metaphysical studies, and his ability to see from another person's viewpoint when necessary. His being a moderator does not inherently suggest that he is religious about Robert's teachings. It suggests that I personally find him fairly open-minded and interesting. And, he does respect Robert's teachings, which is important.

Regarding the safety of Robert's teachings...I have personally come to think that there is no energy body system that is completely safe if people don't use common sense. After months of pushing myself to the limit using NEW, I had an amazing experience that was psychically and physically devastating. I actually joined this forum to find some answers and help with what I experienced. I have been here one month shy of a year and a half, and have come to some conclusions based on being open-minded about what I have heard and read from others. The experience that I had is sometimes referred to in Eastern disciplines as "samadhi". I have heard Robert speak of it as "God Consciousness". While is was truly the most incredible experience I've had in this lifetime, the side effects could very easily have landed me in a mental institution if it were not for an understanding husband.

I was already well experienced in meditation and altered states of consciousness, being a certified hypnotherapist (of the spiritual variety). I also was not a stranger to energy work, being a Reiki Master/Teacher and Quantum Touch practitioner. But, using NEW expanded my abilities well beyond anything else I had experienced. I did not use common sense, or listen to Robert's warning's about stopping all energy work if any problems arose. I had had some previous problems with becoming extremely light-headed and disassociated when attempting OBE. I charged up with NEW, went into meditation with the goal of going OBE, and was "gone" for over 3 and a half hours. What I now believe happened is that during the samadhi experience, I had a major Kundalini event and blew out my crown chakra. I have no idea what the "proper" terminology is for blowing out one's crown chakra, but that is what it felt like.

This event was several years ago now, and I still have ongoing problems with crown chakra energy rushes when doing deep, lengthy meditations or being in a room full of people meditating or doing energy exercises. Just walking in a room like that can start an episode that is very difficult for me to deal with as I've become very sensitive to other's energies.

Robert is aware of my experiences. I hear him speaking more and more on the necessity of stopping all energy work when there is a problem and not starting back up until one feels completely normal. So, regarding the dangers of raising Kundalini or doing energy work, I can speak from personal experience that using common sense is imperative. Although, I have to say, I wouldn't trade my experience for all the tea in China.

[star]

Oh thats a cool story... I don't know how to push myself with energy work. I just find that I lose interest in pushing and stimulating energy after 2 hours.

[Aunt Clair]

Why do you think that immortal masters should know about this btw? They only know what everybody knows.

I am confident that this is incorrect . The immortals are teaching spirits who continue to educate humanity about the energy body and its structures . Humans are not able to see it , feel it or otherwise percieve it as well as them . And our technology does not quantify , qualify or otherwise measure its nature , flows and its structures .

Since you cannot hear the teachers or see the energy body by what basis can you establish your theories ?Are you feeling the flow and recording that ?For it is not enough to read old works and extrapolate from them .

When something is new its new entirely. I hope immortal masters will catch up if they haven't already.

Humans do not even know the fundamental basics . Humanity is not aware of the foundation of energies , flow and structures . I am sure it is humans who need to catch up and not the teaching spirits.

until we don't have the symbols and proper language to understand the energy body we cannot receive the information. What we cannot verbalise or imagine we forget.

The immortals teach in the language of the mystic , we need only develop our clairience so we might see and hear the teachers and concurrently see the energy body structures and feel the energy body flow .

The archaic symbols of yoga and alchemy are certainly reached their limits or it was jut the human consciousness that evolved beyond them.

I disagree .In the archetypes there exists a universal lexicon by which mystics of any language can communicate visually to each other and learn from the spirit teachers .They have left evidence of their work in this manner to future generations .

Humans develop clairvoyance before they develop clairaudience . A visually rich symbology is necessary for disemination .

I have no doubt whatsoever that the chakras when perceived clairvoyantly come through as being located along the spine. But it doesn't mean there is actually something there, just like there are no small people inside the TV set.

Perhaps it is your command of English that limits your communication , as you have suggested . Are you saying that chakras don't exist or what are you attempting to convey here ? Are you saying that clairvoyance is imagination ?

We shouldn't forget that we don't yet even have scientific evidences supporting the existence of chakras at the first place, no measurable energy vortexes or any kind of fields that are not supposed to be there, nada. The popular belief regarding the connection that exists between chakras and different glands or plexuses is absolutely theoretical, too

If the energies , structures and the body do not exist for you, then what it the point of your lengthy discussion ?

You are proposing here on a metaphysical forum that Robert Bruce and Mantak Chia have it wrong and that you have theories that are better . And yet you begin by stating that you cannot see or hear the teachers and you cannot see the energy body either .

You do not believe the metaphysical experts and now you profess do not believe the historical archetypes and established esoterica .

So you want metaphysicists to accept your theories based upon pure conjecture of your own .

And we didn't even mention the fact that different systems don't even agree on the number of chakras or their locations.

That is because the number of chakras, their size and relative location changes somewhat as the energy body develops . For example , ancient charts of 5 chakras were probably correct then . Modern charts of 8 chakras are correct for many humans today .

But the magician has more energy centres than the average human or the unaware human which is born with 7 partially lit .

The blue chakra of the mouth moves up as it grows to be at level with the nose and ears making room for the aqua chakra at the throat .

The rainbow nature of the chakras is correct and much like the rainbow of visible light in the EMR spectrum beginning with the basics and growing in time to have new colour . Between blue and green comes aqua . Between yellow and green manifests chartreuse .

Therefore, clairvoyanly seeing a specific set of chakras where they should be according to a given tradition doesn't prove anything.

Perhaps you could argue that point , but then you disemble the scaffold upon which you began this discussion . You began disagreeing with the works of Robert Bruce and Mantak Chia who are not presenting traditional chakras or tan tiens. These experts do not regurgitate the prevalent 7 chakras on the spinal column.Robert Bruce wrote about the 4 vorticed new chakra on the perineum area ,which I confirm as a rose pink chakra ,beneath the traditional 7 . Robert has a very strong energy body and excellent clairsentience. He felt the energy flow and drew images based upon his first hand research which is confirmed by other metaphysicists . Mantak Chia has not yet published about the 4th tan tien on the spinal chakra column but when I wrote to him he elaborated upon its nature confirming my own perceptions and research .

And I have drawn up my own images of what I clairvoyantly witness on the energy bodies of diverse sitters . My images do not regurgitate but instead establish the existence of energy centres which have not been seen clairvoyantly or written about heretofore .

[quote:3ihtm8o2] The main gates to the energy body are at the alpha and omega apertures, each flowing into the two primary kandas which occur at either end of the spinal chakral column on the crown and at the perineum respectively . All kundalini begins to activate here as the prana enters ripened pathways which have become ready to recieve her . She moves through these 2 major pathways to the chakras , stones and the spine . It is not particular to the lungs or stomach .

With all my respect, this is non sense. The alpha and omega apertures belong to a much more subtle layer of the energy body than the pranic / chi accumulation system. The archetype of the latter is a tree or pyramid, whereas the apertures belong to the archetypal bindu shape, the torus.[/quote:3ihtm8o2]I disagree, these alpha and omega apertures are the two major openings into the energy body on a model which is a tree of life . The alpha aperture is the star above Kether , and above the tree .

I'm not even enitrely sure that those openings are for absorbing any kind of energy.

These do not absorb per se . These are like an os , opening and closing to take in and sustain energy within the aura , the subtle body layers and the energy body.You are saying that kundalini does not enter the chakras from above and below the spinal column .

That is not only radical and unprecedented but you have no basis upon which to dispute traditional wisdom . Kundalini runs along the spine . Traditionally it has been described as entering from the perineum . Contemporarily it has been conjectured that it also enters from above the crown . I have seen and felt kundalini entering from these two apertures into the earth and moon stones .

The alpha and omega apertures are the main openings to the body . That you cannot imagine them , does not surprise me .Visualisation is not a metaphysical skill you have professed to have developed and imagination is tantamount to it. But that does not mean it is not so .

The energy I was talking about as being the primary source of the external process is chi (derived from food, earth and air).

If it was only the air we breathe and the food we eat that developed our energy body all humans would now be magicians capable of all clairience and all forms of projection and healing . The more obese ones would be advantaged also .

But it is not the case , we do not develop through such passive forms of energy intake but by bringing in energy with will and intention directly to the main internal channel in the spine .

... the external aspect of kundalini is feed on internal and external chi, prana, or whatever terminology you prefer. I'd say that the energy sources of the external aspect of kundalini are (1) atmospheric ions / "ground prana" accumulated by the lungs and tertiary energy system, (2) metabolic chi derived from food by the digestive system, and (3) the so called ching chi of the sexual organs (represent an external storage itself which gonna be wasted otherwise). All these pools can be mobilised and converted back to "metabolic chi" (bioplasm).

Nor is sex an intake of energy to all humans . Then would presume that only the humans who take semen into the body cavities would derive this energy then and a heterosexual male or a celibate person would be disadvantaged and thereby unbalanced in their development.Certainly this is not so .

Do you believe that kundalini enters the body through the breath and the food and sexual fluid ?

The pineal gland, the thalamus and the third ventricle's standing photon field, that modulates the work of the thalamus and the pineal gland, are the three most important brain structures, that without doubt, are involved in this mysterious process I call implosion, and in the support of brain bounded consciousness in general. They all together make up the middle of head center I call head bindu.

The head bindu is a projection itself, too, the in-brain projection of the original bindu through which consciousness has been broken out into physical reality. The original bindu has other projections besides the head bindu. It also manifest at the middle of the two other main cavities, chest and pelvis.

I would not call the stones or tan tiens, cavities . The model has been aptly called a vessel , or cauldron aptly but it is not a cavity.

And the 3 primary stones are distinct in their nature becoming more like each other only with superceding development which maintains the diversity of elemental energies in other structures . Each energy centre once ripened becomes hyperactive and then neutral . That is it reaches its prime objective and then becomes less important as more sophisticated emergent centres have now ripened and taken over that function . So the use of the chakras is superceded by the stones which will be superceded by the layesch , etc . In this manner , the energy body becomes taller , wider , stronger , cleaner and more capable of sustaining a higher vibration .

As Mantak Chia has promoted each stone must have a brain , a heart and I would add each must have a uterus . The uterus of the earth stone is much more important than the guts . It is written in Abrahamic proverbs that an enlightened man must be able to bear a child from his own body .

The brain of the moonstone allows clairience . The heart of the sunstone is the pump of the energy body . The uterus would generate new juvenile structures as the ripened earth stone has begun to do . So we would like to have these qualities in each of the 3 primary stones over time but we cannot attain this development until we ripen the Heavens stone of Air . I am confident that the nature of the heavens stone is to regulate the os of the alpha aperture to allow the energy to be drawn in rather than passively accepted . This nature begins to occur in the Earth stone much later and not inately within it .

When 4 stones on the spine develop brain , lung , heart and uterus ,then an unprecedented level of development occurs .

[quote:3ihtm8o2]I see various metaphysicists refer to the crown or the perineum as "the" kanda . I see them as reciprocal kandas . In meditation we were taught the seat is the Throne of God and the scalp is the Crown of the Goddess .We saw nadis build up like a fountain from the throne and later cascade down like a chandelier from the crown . When they meet in the heart , this begins to cure the Sunstone.

I can see how this is true. [/quote:3ihtm8o2] Thank you.

[quote:3ihtm8o2]Please define and link me to a sanskrit meaning of the name "Thokar ".

As far as I know thokar was a hindu prince. It also the umbrella name of various kriyas designed to drill the heart knot (second or thokar kriya). I use this term not quite correctly to identify the center of the 2nd compartment of the energy body which is related to the middle dantien and the thalamus.[/quote:3ihtm8o2]
Thanks for that .

[quote:3ihtm8o2]The organs of the physical body that most affect the manifestation of kundalini are the brain , heart and lungs. The stomach and intestines are not primary organs of kundalini manifestation and remain unimportant .

...but guts are another thing. Even Mantak Chia aknowledges this and pinpoint the gut's microvilli as possible material candidate for the lower dantien. [/quote:3ihtm8o2]I disagree .The anus and intestines are a cesspool harbouring the dirtiest of our energies . It is here that dis-ease is forming disease from our stresses which have been held onto instead of let go .

The intestines are the most difficult to draw energy through and traditionally represent the qlipoth . They hold dark energies well but they do not sustain light energies . Even on the strongest energy body the intestines remain the darkest part of the human energy body . The Earth Stone is the last of the primary stones to cure because it is so much lower and crude in vibration . It is only when the air stone manifests that the Earth stone may begin to see the light .

The enitire route follows a topology similar to that of the Klein bottle

I dismiss this entirely . The human energy body is reciprocal and symmetrical . "As above so below" . The top is like the bottom . The right is like the left . This model of a klein bottle does not work .

I've found that the ajna center is best established by repeatedly breathing between the perineum and the forehad. This is not spinal breathing, nor breathing through the central channel. It's breathing through the lateral channels, ida and pingala, in order to synchronize lateral activities for implosion or kundalini rising.

Agreed.

Kechari mudra helps in the next stage. If you cannot perform advanced kechari and don't want to cut the frenulum I advise you to imagine your tongue touching the pineal gland. Then you can activate the navel center by sort of splitting of ajna activity and swallowing it down into your guts following the Penfield route by repeated sweeps. Besides the sensory / Penfield component this route has a physical component as well. Large gulps of saliva filled with chi may help even though the actual pathway follows the nervus vagus from brainstem to the center of the abdominal brain.

I have never subscribed to Taoist beliefs in the ingestion of saliva , urine or other bodily fluids.This is unnecessary and unpleasant . I enjoy great clairience and projection and I have never found it necessary to endure such unpleasantries nor are these the habits of my able peers . I feel the ingestion of semen , blood , urine and saliva does nothing to improve the magick nor the light quotient . It does not enlighten at all but is mythical in nature altogether

The three dantiens are not on the same layer of the energy body!

I see and feel these tan tiens . These are stacked upon the spinal column like beads on a straw in one layer and are so described by magicians , kaballahists , European and Taoist alchemists . Some of your ideas are unfounded .

[quote:3ihtm8o2]I do not find the bones to be so "hollow" as to allow such primary flow nor do I believe them to be the primary conduit of the energy flow . I do not subscribe to bone breathing . I do find the limbs are important but secondary to the spine and consequently developing after the chakras are filled and the stones are cured .

The skeletal system is a framework of support for the physical body . The energy meridians are not in the deep marrow of the bony fibers . The meridians are much more nebulous and can be seen to run through organs and bones without constraint .

Energy conduction is possible at many levels of the body from dense and localised channels like nerves and bone marrow to subtle and delocalised pathways like extraordrinary meridians or the bones crystalline structure. Bone marrow are amongst the most important conductors at the physical level and certainly in pair with nerves. [/quote:3ihtm8o2]No the limbs are secondary to the spinal column . Energy does not pass through the limbs or phalanges as well as through soft tissue and through the spine. Now one could argue perhaps that the bone is superior to the nerve . But that is not a concern to me . What I meant to impart was that the legs and arms are not primary channels . The spine is held to be the primary channel . I do not feel the vertebrate nature is responsible nor would I argue that the spinal cord is responsible .

But it is evident that the superior path is on the spine and that the spine is the path of Kundalini not the arms or legs which are more bony in mass than the supporting vertebrae of the spine.

Energy must pass through the arms and legs over time . But the energy comes down the crown to the heart to the limbs . It is particularly difficult to draw in energy to the palms, initially . Yet the reverse is not true . Humans have learned to pass psi from the palm in one lesson . The soles can take in energy better than the palms but not from air . The soles draw in when in contact with the ground . This is general to all humans .

I do not believe that the physical body systems are necessary for energy body health . The energy body is improved and developed by light energy . The health of the energy body improves the health of the physical body . But the physical body may be amputated and still the energy body is whole . The physical body may die and rot away and yet the energy body is whole .

I do not believe that cells of the body in bones , nerves or intestines or anywhere else are vital to sustain the energy body . I believe that is the other way around . The consciousness allows for clairience , travel, communication and healing after death . The physical body is the illusion . It is the energy body that sustains our spirit long after the death of our frail physical vessel.

[Tempestinateapot]

upstream said:

I have no doubt whatsoever that the chakras when perceived clairvoyantly come through as being located along the spine. But it doesn't mean there is actually something there, just like there are no small people inside the TV set.

I'm going to ignore the fact that that was a rather rude comment. Instead, I would like to point out that I cannot prove that you exist and are actually there. I can't prove that science has any credibility. The practice of so called "science" has changed it's theories, knowns, and proofs for as long as it's been called a science. I can't know anything, without a doubt, beyond the fact that I am experiencing myself (me). The Eastern philosophies have no more proof of their validity than science does. There are so many Eastern beliefs, that there probably aren't 2 people in existence who agree on everything. So, quoting Eastern beliefs, science, or anything else for that matter goes completely over my head unless something about it happens to ring true to me.

One thing that I can say about Aunt Clair is that she doesn't just talk the talk. She walks the walk and has had many of the things she's seen verified by others, even a few people I know. She doesn't just read and study, she puts into practice things that she wants to learn, and pushes the boundaries of what others have tried. So, I tend to believe her rather than some text from a thousand years ago by some person I have no way of knowing where they got their info from. While I don't study the same things she does, I'm not going to tell her she's wrong when I haven't had the experiences she has. Her experiences are just as valid as anything I've experienced. When it comes right down to it, who is right and who is wrong? We all are both, depending on our perspective.