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Thread: Meeting people in the Astral plane

  1. #11
    artdragondream Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by niki123
    Are you saying that the dreams I'm still having together with this man for more than a year are actually OBEs ?! He was extremely shocked to see me back in dec.06 .I don't think I've ever seen anyone as shocked as he was !

    Its possible.


    ~Scott

  2. #12
    Charge Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by artdragondream
    I have met someone who has claimed to have done exactly that. She met the man she would eventually find and come to marry while out of body. She lived in Colorado at the time and during an OBE went to Virginia beach where she met someone also having an OBE. He took the chance to give her his phone # to verify the experience and it worked. She called him and they fell in love after several shared OBE's together and then moved to St. Augustine together after they were married. She is in the same writers group I attend.

    ~Scott
    If this is true why don't she write down her story and publish it here?

    I'm still not sure what to believe about the OBE concept. I just finished reading my first book on the subject called "OOBE - How to have them and what to expect" by Robert Peterson. He describes his OBEs in ways that make them seem like dreams, to me. For example, when he's "out" of his body, his kitchen no longer looks the same as it does "in real life". He comes up with what seems like an ad-hoc explanation, namely that you don't perceive physical reality while out of the body, but rather an astral version of the physical reality, which may look different. Moreover, his vision is pretty poor the way he describes it, with things looking blurred (like his own physical body), and with poor peripheral vision. He insists that his OBEs are real, though. But his somewhat dream-like accounts of his OBEs makes me wonder what the essential difference between dreams and an OBE is. His book did not convince me that OBEs represent a separation from the physical body. Instead it pointed more in the opposite direction; that OBEs are simply a vivid form of dreaming.

    If people really do project out of the body, why haven't there been lots of successful experiments where people have gotten information while out of their body that they couldn't have gotten unless they actually went out of their body? I mean hard data like series of digits. Where is the evidence that OBEs are real?

    Any input on the matter is appreciated.

  3. #13
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    You know, this topic is so old and tired.... OBEs can vary from extremely realistic to dreamlike, for a very simple reason: When you are out of body, (or more correctly, when your conscious awareness is out of body) you are not perceiving with your senses. So whatever you perceive is the energetic equivalent of whatever it's there. It's like a blind person looking at a room with his/her hand. The description won't and can't be visual. So to expect a projection to be perfectly representative of an object that is there in space is disingenous at best.
    So how can we describe it? Because eventually the perception is analyzed by the brain like any other perception, by comparing it with what it knows and serving up an image or sound that goes with what is perceived. There is nothing hocus-pocus about it.
    From your post it seems to me you are reading about OBEs to be convinced that they are real. Well, guess what? OBEs are subjective experiences like dreams, the only difference is that sometimes (yes, I said sometimes) they are representative of what is happening in the objective material world. So you can either learn to have one and decide for yourself, but please don't even try to provoke people into arguing about whether their experiences are 'real' or not.
    Until you have one and see someone and verify that whatever you saw was happening, you will never know. But don't try to get anyone to attempt to convince you of anything, because they shouldn't have to.

    BTW, Astral Projection cannot be verified like objective phenomena because it is not objective. Most OBEr's can't do it on someone else's schedule, and can barely control their own experiences.

    Now, as an admin:
    If this is true why don't she write down her story and publish it here?
    This is a provocative statement designed to provoke argument. If you persist in challenging posters about the veracity or accuracy of their statements, you will be banned asap and your posts will be deleted.
    If this is not your intention, then accept my apology and maybe you can find something here that you can enjoy.
    https://linktr.ee/CoralieCFTraveler
    Rules:http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/faq.php
    "Stop acting as if life is a rehearsal" Dr. Wayne Dyer.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge
    Instead it pointed more in the opposite direction; that OBEs are simply a vivid form of dreaming....If people really do project out of the body, why haven't there been lots of successful experiments where people have gotten information while out of their body that they couldn't have gotten unless they actually went out of their body? I mean hard data like series of digits. Where is the evidence that OBEs are real?
    OBES can occur in meditation or in dreamstate . That does not mean that they are not real . The body must be relaxed . I am a clairvoyant and I see the mental body project from my peers and students in circle . I see the projectors who arrive at my home . I respect questions but not derision . If you want to prove this to yourself , then learn to meditate and project yourself , project with others and you can confirm each other .
    ~*~Love , Light & Laughter ~*~

  5. #15
    Charge Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by CFTraveler
    You know, this topic is so old and tired.... OBEs can vary from extremely realistic to dreamlike, for a very simple reason: When you are out of body, (or more correctly, when your conscious awareness is out of body) you are not perceiving with your senses. So whatever you perceive is the energetic equivalent of whatever it's there. It's like a blind person looking at a room with his/her hand. The description won't and can't be visual. So to expect a projection to be perfectly representative of an object that is there in space is disingenous at best.
    So how can we describe it? Because eventually the perception is analyzed by the brain like any other perception, by comparing it with what it knows and serving up an image or sound that goes with what is perceived. There is nothing hocus-pocus about it.
    From your post it seems to me you are reading about OBEs to be convinced that they are real. Well, guess what? OBEs are subjective experiences like dreams, the only difference is that sometimes (yes, I said sometimes) they are representative of what is happening in the objective material world. So you can either learn to have one and decide for yourself, but please don't even try to provoke people into arguing about whether their experiences are 'real' or not.
    Until you have one and see someone and verify that whatever you saw was happening, you will never know. But don't try to get anyone to attempt to convince you of anything, because they shouldn't have to.

    BTW, Astral Projection cannot be verified like objective phenomena because it is not objective. Most OBEr's can't do it on someone else's schedule, and can barely control their own experiences.

    Now, as an admin:
    If this is true why don't she write down her story and publish it here?
    This is a provocative statement designed to provoke argument. If you persist in challenging posters about the veracity or accuracy of their statements, you will be banned asap and your posts will be deleted.
    If this is not your intention, then accept my apology and maybe you can find something here that you can enjoy.
    It's a neutral statement in my opinion. Of course it can be interpreted in a provocative way if that is your wish. I'm not sure whether you realize that your rule (that I'm not allowed to challenge posters about the veracity and accuracy of their statements) is in severe conflict with the principles of rational discourse and critical analysis that characterize scientific method and debate. If you aren't allowed to ask critical questions on this website, this website and its content is probably not worthy of my time.

  6. #16
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    Fair enough.
    https://linktr.ee/CoralieCFTraveler
    Rules:http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/faq.php
    "Stop acting as if life is a rehearsal" Dr. Wayne Dyer.

  7. #17
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    I have similar attitude...

    But you must try for yourself... I have experimented much when it comes to verifying objective reality through OBE... And I have done so, at least to my own satisfaction... The problem is this: By the time one has been 'mowed' completely down by Energy Body Sensations, and Intense Vibrations, (feels like yer teeth may pop out of socket) and the Fear/Panic that accompanies this experience, plus various (intense) exit/seperation effects,,, Generally, one has to concentrate on the situation at hand, and maybe MAYBE, once you settle into the experience you will give a thought to your 'experiments'. (that btw don't seem so very important any more) The idea that this 'may not be real' seems like a silly idea when OOB...
    We Sleep, that we may dream. We Dream, that we may wake. Jonathan Livingston Seagull

  8. #18
    Charge,

    The idea that Empirical method (scientific basis) is neutral or objective is completely flawed. In all cases regarding scientific observation's, a subject hypothesis is made (subjective or perspective based theory); in which once made, through the process of elimination-that theory or hypothesis is tried to be disproved. This is the process of Empirical method or science.

    All Experiments in Empirical method must start with a hypothesis or a subject view first before the process of elimination starts.

    For the not so "scientifically minded"- it means someone has an idea and other people try disproved it. This can only come from having opinion on something first. (an idea which they want to experiment on)

    If the theory can be duplicated multiple times in a controlled environment under the certain conditions (relevant to the theory) then "someones idea" becomes scientific fact.

    The idea that objectively is capable by us as individuals is an illusion. For at no time while we remain as our personality, ie a single point of presence or conscious will we know what it is like to be anything but a perspective- or see things from a perspective. How ever devoid of emotional attachments we feel towards a particular subject or situation- it will always be through your eyes or a point of view.

    So unless theres a chance that you could become aware off all things at anyone moment at a quantum level- there is no neutral or objectivity in regards to perspective- only our subjective illusion that there can be.

    Peace,

    Dk
    "The lightest and nimblest will rise fastest"

    Stay up to date with the latest spiritual hacks, meanderings and muses

    Like us and be awesome---> www.facebook.com/livingsoul20

  9. #19
    Charge Guest
    dkane,

    I don't think anyone here has asserted that the scientific method is a method of reaching objective truth without the possibility of error, or that there isn't subjective components involved. Of course there is, as long as fallible humans are conducting the research. The point is rather that the scientific method is the best method we have to reach conclusions that we all can agree upon given that the premises are correct.

    Now, what I was saying beforehand was that within the realm of scientific and rational discourse, having a rule that says you're not allowed to challenge the veracity and accuracy of a claim made, is nonsensical. It goes against the fundamental principles of rational discourse, which scientific debate is based on. In fact, science doesn't make much sense unless you consistently do exactly what such rule tells you you cannot do. Challenging the veracity and accuracy of claims made is a key element in getting us closer to objective reality - which all science is based on.

  10. #20
    Charge,

    I understand traditional implementation of Empirical method and scientific investigation consists of being able to challenge a theorem- and one has the right to do such a thing. But this is a completely inefficient and out dated method to construct a viable pathway to unraveling such truths- refer to De Bono on this. Which Im sure you are here to find correct? The Truth?

    "Its easier to criticizes the man on center stage than to lift a hand to help"

    The path to the truth first starts with an open mind.

    To find the truth of what we discusses, may mean we need to start our thinking with a different overview- or set of premises to run our hypothesis.

    Just as the we once thought the earth was the centre of the universe and the stars rotated around us ( we built our understanding of what "we thought" the universe was doing around that premise)- it was only a relatively short period that this was and case. Or accepted social understandings- Religion in that case- Science today.

    For us to find the next "truth" or step towards objective reality as you call it. There first must be a hypothetical premise that we state first- which is outside our understanding of what we accept- because we we dont start with an experimental premise we can only fall back onto the list of knowns that we have-and our sight is limited to only what we have.

    For us to have (even in science) any great leaps in understanding first we must "create" something (a premise) outside what we understand to be true at that time. Everything that is "fact" at any one time has already been found- By someone who created a premise first.

    My understanding at present, is that none of what is happening here is outside the realm of quantum theorem- or if you like to make a jump to string theory.

    I feel we are lucky enough to be experimenting at present with what quantum theorists have only had the ability to duplicate with electrons so far. Science will catch up, but first we need a different set of premise's to experiment with (overview) -which will only start becoming apparent when the slow moving psyche's of the mass's catches up. Scientific community included. Its taken multiple decades for science to accept the validity of quantum theorem- and for the everyday person- the "proven" results it generates are far outside what they can imagine (or would like to imagine). Even Einstein hated it and worked to his dying day to disprove it without success- he was not able to accept a different overview- though he had just changed the overview of the world a few years before.

    I project quite regularly, and can attest to its subjective reality. I have had verification of my experiences that are "objective"- though you can find it difficult to simply stay in the RTZ to gain verification through controlled experiments.

    I would like to find the truth with you... as thats what most of us here are trying to do. In creative discussion- which im sure you are looking for.

    In Scientific terms, I think we are on the cutting edge. We are just pulling out of the information age and moving into the Bio engineering age- after that I feel our technology will move toward Bio Energy systems and understanding- give science about 50 yrs and what we are discussing will be natural stuff.

    Peace,

    Dk
    "The lightest and nimblest will rise fastest"

    Stay up to date with the latest spiritual hacks, meanderings and muses

    Like us and be awesome---> www.facebook.com/livingsoul20

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