Tibetan dream yoga

[Tombo]

So, just to make it clear on why I may have to lock this topic, you're advocating someone trying to kill themselves to see if they can have a near-death experience? Please tell me this is not what you're doing.

Sorry about being maybe to careless about it. I would be feeling pretty bad for Jenn if you close this great topic just because I did not express myself carefully

No, I do not advocate someone to try to kill themselfs! I advocate someone to try something which I can not really understand. i don't know what I'm advocating really, but since it is inside an LD it certainly belongs here. lets not call it NDE! i survived it with no hram and it took only like 30 secs. I have no clue what it was. Maybe it just was my first real OBE?! lets call it Tom's special OBE, okay?! It just felt more real then my other experiences....

Yes maybe it is dangerous, but if so we should discuss it on not supress it I think.

All this years everybody says OBE's are save and then suddenly you are so sacred that one can actually kill themselfs inside the OBE?

We admire those people like Monroe or Robert Bruce that explore this world without fear. Didn't Robert Bruce himself experience a NDE while doing some Kundalini Work! But now there is a whole Forum about that subject. So I would not find it appropriate to close this topic.

Hope this makes things better

KR Tom

[CFTraveler]

All this years everybody says OBE's are safe and then suddenly you are so sacred that one can actually kill themselfs inside the OBE?

Not at all what I said, which is why I asked the questions. If you are talking about things you can do in an OBE or LD then I say do whatever you can do.
I was merely clarifying that you were not talking about the idea of deliberately inducing an NDE by engaging in some sort of dangerous practice.
Not the same, that's why I asked. I wanted to make sure that anyone that is reading this thread is in no way confused about it.

[Psychotronic]

I think it isn´t rational to feel fear to spiritual experiences. We are constantly in protection of our subconsciousness. It is something so precise, it never can allow injury in any case. I have this protection in a physical realm too, so it is absolutely sure in psychic/astral realms, where subconsciousness has full control.

[ButterflyWoman]

NDE = Near Death Experience. It happens when your body is so sick or damaged or traumatised or injured or otherwise unable to function that it actually dies or comes extremely close to it, and your consciousness leaves it. It is not something anyone should want to induce, as it involves significant trauma.

OBE = Out of Body Experience. Your consciousness leaves your physical body for a time. Your body is not in danger, not dying. Frequently people have OBEs when lying safely and comfortably in their bed. No physical danger to the body is involved.

I'm just hoping to clarify the terms people commonly use and what they mean. If you mean OBE, don't call it an NDE and vice versa. It's true that there are not a lot of terms for many of the things we discuss on this board, so we have to just sort of describe them the best we can and hope it makes sense, but NDE/OBE are pretty well established.

I sincerely hope that helps.

[Jenn Lynn]

i think that there's more than just our subconsciousnesses protecting us, especially in the astral

well in the end tom, it comes down to this, i will try the method you described to me, because it does sound intriguing, BUT, there's no guarantee ill pull it off. the times that ive laid down in a LD/OBE, as soon as i close my eyes i am in that really crazy zone, and i dont seem to be able to change it. ill see what i can do though and post here if i have any success. in the meantime you need to get back to your LDs so you can start working on this stuff too!


jennifer

[Korpo]

I wanted to add that I had two very strange dreams some time ago, and perhaps this relates to your "crazy" experience.

I found at two occasions that while we dream several "minds" can be active. You remarked about the "sleeping conscious mind" and the "waking conscious mind". How about this:

In both dreams I could actually interact with my wife, in a telepathic way. While the dream was unfolding, and I was part of it, I became aware of my wife commenting on it, but from "outside" the dream. In the second instance, in fact me and her were commenting on what was happening inside the dream - having a chat at "another level" outside the dream about what happened inside the dream.

In that second instance then I realised I was dreaming, my mind switched to that "second frequency" and I shouted "towards" my wife "We're talking! We're talking!". This was in fact completely outside the dream. Nothing was to be seen, I just felt connected to her, I knew that at the other end of the communication was her. It could very well be that I either forgot all the visuals or a case of "third eye blindness", but at that level there seemed to be no representations. I felt as if talking mind to mind, and being no more than mind. I could not even say if there was space at all! Then a buzzing electricity arose, a sound completely distorted, the buzz rose, and I woke up. My wife thinks that was someone from a higher frequency talking "down".

So, there exist parts of our minds which can observe our "sleeping conscious mind" while it dreams. Both felt like me. Me in the dream trying to interact with the dream environment perceived myself talking with my wife as if that was someone else. But as soon as I realised that there was an instant shift and I was that self. I cannot say whether these different selves are different bodies or different frequencies or something different altogether. I just know they exist.

Having said that I think meditation is not just a tool for achieving OBE/LD. I think the quiet mind you produce would over time, as you keep it as it is, have a whole lot of other effects by itself. Alternatively, it could possibly also act as a platform for doing the switch right beyond the dream environment to that what for example I experienced. If I can exist as two levels of mind in a dream, this should be accessible via meditation.

I also liked Kurt Leland's suggestion that having a dream lucidly can be utilised to leave the dreamscape and enter what he described as "Otherwhere", which amongst other things contains the Afterlife (or he calls it AfterDeath Zone). This requires knowing the dream for what it is and leaving this sphere of the subconscious playing itself out by willing a gate to arise and passing through it. According to him that marks a passage from your own subconscious into OtherWhere, where the mind interacts with the environment, too. OtherWhere is usually less accessible as long when we cannot reign in our mind, as the continuous thought manifestations would just cause problems for the beings in OtherWhere. Outside our own subconscious dreamscape we start to affect other entities and our interactions have effects beyond what they have in dreams.

I found it interesting that something like that exists, and his descriptions, in his own words and concepts, match just fine with what Monroe and Moen describe when they describe Focus 22-27 or what Michael Newton describes about the "Life Between Lives" as described by his clients. This significant overlap with different angles of perceptions, and through different methods gives credibility to that material. Leland uses LD, Monroe uses OBE, Moen uses phasing, even instantly from waking consciousness, and Newton uses deep hypnosis on subjects. If all those methods produce significant overlap, and they seem to do, then Leland's method to access OtherWhere seems very interesting.

Oliver