The truth behind the psiwheel and other similar experiments

[Thoughtbreach]

I agree. AP is very important; quite challenging for me and probably more challenging then tk in general. I need to buy a recliner bad.
I believe there is a link between AP, TK and energy body. AP being the joker card.

[Psychotronic]

AP is really the first thing to learn. Other possibilities can appear easier than before doing AP.

[journyman161]

Across the years, one thing I've tried to keep in mind is not to make definitive statements - they have (as mentioned above) a tendency to become self-fulfilling prophecies. Sometimes the key to learning something entirely new is simply to alter the position in which one views the subject. The Timex company came into being because the Swiss watchmakers couldn't see a new way & the japanese could. The new paradigm proved itself & electronic watches swept the Swiss domination from the market.

At base, our theories tell us that when you look small enough, there is nothing there, at least some of the time. It has also been experimentally shown over & again, in a variety of fields, that the expectations of the experimenter can alter the results - someone expecting something to work can get good results while those who try to disprove them get results they expect also.

The ideas that are showing us new ways to view Reality are also those that come from (or lead to) the concept that the Universe is not really there, & that consciousness is not just an adjunct to Reality, but that it seems required to have Reality there at all.

We don't know yet what causes electricity, but we use it. We have no idea what magnetism is or why it breaks the 'rule' about action at a distance or perpetual motion, yet we can use it. We have only a word for gravity (& a couple of ideas about possibilities of what it might be) & absolutely no idea why it is millions of times weaker than electric & magnetic fields & it was one of the first forces Man began to use. Our theories of the other forces contradict the ideas we have of things (like charges repel, yet something holds together atomic nuclei & doesn't cause electrons to fly away from each other) & even our ideas about molecules suffer from a massive influx of ignorance.

So either there are a myriad mysteries about how things happen, or our theories are not yet the be-all of the Cosmos. So it is probably a little early to be defining what a trained or even unrestrained consciousness might be capable of achieving.

I've seen (& experienced) a few things in my time that, even with my knowledge of science & how things fit together, I can't explain, & that is enough to convince me I not only don't know all the answers, but that, in most areas I haven't even found the right questions to ask.

It only takes one white crow to disprove the theory that all crows are black. Spotting lots of black ones simply doesn't do it.

[CFTraveler]

It only takes one white crow to disprove the theory that all crows are black. Spotting lots of black ones simply doesn't do it.

That was a thing of beauty.

[Thoughtbreach]

Conservative response. What is your point, I don't understand? It's all a "mystery" so why bother trying to increase or putting into practice awareness?
We can argue and philosophically debate about failure to explain things with human theory adequately for all eternity, but it has not, and will never bring us out of our comfortable little cottages, that we peer out of.
I say let us all learn and find awareness within, hence their be no point we be on an astral dynamics site.

[wstein]

Why bother bing on AD?
You have more chance of finding a white crow if you are looking where crows hang out.

[journyman161]

Conservative response. What is your point, I don't understand? It's all a "mystery" so why bother trying to increase or putting into practice awareness?
We can argue and philosophically debate about failure to explain things with human theory adequately for all eternity, but it has not, and will never bring us out of our comfortable little cottages, that we peer out of.
I say let us all learn and find awareness within, hence their be no point we be on an astral dynamics site.

If I read this right, you may have missed my point. By pointing out how little we actually know, even about things we use in everyday life, I was trying to show that it's difficult to make the case that TK doesn't exist. (see OP's post) And as we don't even know what it is, it becomes even harder to make definitive statements.

The crows comment is in reference to the youtube 'proofs' offered - showing many fakers playing at TK doesn't prove that all TK is faked - it only takes one real case of TK to make all those fakes wrong.

Is that more clear?

[Psychotronic]

If we want to prove, that tk doesn´t exist, we have no arguments to deny it. The only thing we can do, is debating about - HOW to do it, no how to deny it. We can deny only some theories about tk, be we can´t deny whole tk, we can´t deny all possible theories, because we can´t know all possible theories. And there are some theories of tk we absolutely can´t prove. So, we haven´t adequate knowledge to deny anything. It is a thing only for philosophical debates. And they can have no-ending charakter. Everybody know it...

[ButterflyWoman]

NOTE: I tried to split this thread (the split off part went to Mysticism), and I didn't quite do it the way I intended, but I'm not sure there is a way to do it the way I intended. Apologies for the slightly messy split. Still learning some of the technical stuff.

Anyway, metas wrote the following in this thread (sincere apologies for that deleted/moved comment, as I said, I didn't split the thread quite the way I intended *sigh*):

It is extremely hard for a person with unexpanded consciousness to try to grasp it, but the truth is that what you are is God in any way you look at it. God is the universe - all the stones, oceans, trees, planets, galaxies, living beings. The God is all that there is and ever will be. The reason your ego has trouble letting go of the idea that you are separate from the world is because God convinced himself that way to play hide-and-seek with himself.

In other words, if you accept the idea that you are God and stop believing in materialistic terms (believing only what you see with your eyes), then you will awaken and see the only truth - you are not separate from the world, but you are world. It takes a long time to realize this, but when you do you will not only be able to move petty pencils on the table, you will be able to pass through walls (after all, walls are made of molecules and so is your body). Its the power of awareness. Jesus was a human being no different from you (apart from his high spiritual side) and he could walk on water. Something to think about - read Alan Watts.

[CFTraveler]

Here's the new thread that was split:
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=10832