Thermal Dynamics Disproves Afterlife

Chris_com28 · 24th July 2008, 09:21 AM

I've heard a few times that thermal dynamics disproves the afterlife. I can't remember which law this is, but I've been searching on the Internet and I've been unable to find any information on it. I'm wondering if anyone else knows what they're talking about.

**Korpo** · 24th July 2008, 11:05 AM

Perhaps you look up something first to reference? That would be helpful.

Oliver

**ButterflyWoman** · 24th July 2008, 03:10 PM

According to Wikipedia, Thermodynamics:

Thermodynamics studies the effects of changes in temperature, pressure, and volume on physical systems at the macroscopic scale by analysing the collective motion of their particles using statistics. Roughly, heat means "energy in transit" and dynamics relates to "movement"; thus, in essence thermodynamics studies the movement of energy and how energy instills movement. Historically, thermodynamics developed out of need to increase the efficiency of early steam engines.

I'm sure that some skeptical scientific sorts could use it to "prove" that there can't be an afterlife, mostly because they assume that spiritual energy (i.e., consciousness, which is something science can't even define at all) is measurable.

I've also heard it said that "simple mathematics" can be used to disprove reincarnation. I remain unconvinced.

I've got nothing at all against science. It's an extremely useful field. However, it has plenty of limitations. Determining "proof" for or against non-physical things like life after death seems well out of the scope of science.

sleeper · 24th July 2008, 05:03 PM

if you found proof that there is no afterlife, what would you do with that info? how would it change your life?

Fish · 24th July 2008, 05:35 PM

It wouldn't change mine

**Korpo** · 24th July 2008, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by sleeper

if you found proof that there is no afterlife, what would you do with that info? how would it change your life?

Well, if it all would just end one day - what would be there to fear? I mean - if my existence simply ended, what would I really care? I couldn't.

Life itself would be just meaningless, though. What would we strive for? To what end? Improvement, learning - what would they be good for?

I have fears about the process of dying, real non-existence seems almost meaningless compared to it. Coming to think of it the human mind is not built to truly accept an end to its existence, IMO. IMO our mind cannot imagine not existing in some form.

Oliver

**CFTraveler** · 24th July 2008, 09:56 PM

I think you may be talking about entropy here, which proves nothing. The reason being that in the theory of entropy, anything that has or is energy will eventually find the point in which it stops existing. Which of course is not even remotely connected to the ideas of the afterlife.
At least with linear thinking.

The same about the reincarnation-math conundrum.
The math thing would make sense if reincarnation were a linear event, but since most of us come to understand it as a holographic event, again it means nothing.

Just attempts to quantify the unquantifiable, and then dismiss it when it's shown to 'not be' quantifiable.

Which leads me to point out, that scientists (at least the ones that care to admit it) have admitted that information is not energy. So the form energy takes is not quantifiable either. Yet we can see it. So maybe energy can stop existing, but information never 'existed' in the way energy does. Hee hee!!!! *cackles madly*

Hibby · 27th July 2008, 02:35 PM

I'd have to agree, i don't see how maths and thermal dynamics would be able to prove the after life doesn't exists. There's just no relation between them.

Originally Posted by Korpo

Well, if it all would just end one day - what would be there to fear? I mean - if my existence simply ended, what would I really care? I couldn't.

I'd be disappointed in humanity if their only reason to treat each other well was the fear of hell and the rewards of heaven. But perhaps the morals and ethics are already imprinted within me, i wonder if without them I'd still respect life.

If it was the case that there is no after life then the meaning of life is just simply to protect one's existence and its future. That is the human race can be considered a single entity in which each human plays a role in allowing the race as a whole to exist and to continue to exist by evolving and such.

Chris_com28 · 30th July 2008, 09:27 PM

Perhaps you look up something first to reference? That would be helpful.

If you had read my post properly you would know that I've already looked for some reference, but found none. My guess at all if this acutally is a well known article it's just so bad that people exept, the really arrogant ones, just stopped talking about it because it's just so bad. It's like the one about reincarnation I heard once. "If reincarnation exists then why don't people remember their previous lives?" I'll leave that one for you to figure out.

I'm sure that some skeptical scientific sorts could use it to "prove" that there can't be an afterlife, mostly because they assume that spiritual energy (i.e., consciousness, which is something science can't even define at all) is measurable.

It's probably due to assumtions that spiritual energy must behave in normal scientific ways. Though quantum physics doesn't make much sense, yet that was brought into mainstream physics. I think the argument was about the law of entropy. I think that was mentioned a few times by different people.

if you found proof that there is no afterlife, what would you do with that info? how would it change your life?

I don't think it would change mine. I was merely curious. It's in our nature to be curious of the unknown.

Well, if it all would just end one day - what would be there to fear? I mean - if my existence simply ended, what would I really care? I couldn't.

Exactly. It reminds me how people clutch onto the idea of an afterlife. Like life would be unbearable without it. Just be thankful that you've had this one and you don't have to suffer any more. In some ways I find the idea of no afterlife even more appealing than the idea that there is. You think it's going to be easy once you're dead? I highly doubt it. I don't know how people could think that you work hard for about 70 years then you go to heaven to party hard with the big G for eternity. Seems too hopeful for me.

After asking here it seems not many people know anything about this argument at all. I've resorted to asking a friend who stated it a few times before, but I didn't want to resort to him as he probably gets some kind of arrogant high from being asked this. Anyway, I'll reply with what he said to see if we can understand it.

**CFTraveler** · 30th July 2008, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Chris_com28

Perhaps you look up something first to reference? That would be helpful.

If you had read my post properly you would know that I've already looked for some reference, but found none. My guess at all if this acutally is a well known article it's just so bad that people exept, the really arrogant ones, just stopped talking about it because it's just so bad. It's like the one about reincarnation I heard once. "If reincarnation exists then why don't people remember their previous lives?" I'll leave that one for you to figure out.

I think he was asking you what part of Thermodynamics was used to disprove the afterlife. The only reason I linked it to entropy is that I had heard a similar argument for the non-eternity of the physical universe. A depressing realization, if you consider life only as a material item.

I don't know how people could think that you work hard for about 70 years then you go to heaven to party hard with the big G for eternity. Seems too hopeful for me.

I suppose it's as unreasonable as to expect 'eternal punishment' for someone who has done bad things in life. It just doesn't add up. But, like I said, these are ideas that are based on the view of reality as purely objective. And I think that we know better than that.