Enlightenment is "Growing Up"

[Ouroboros]

As for McKenna...I'm still not sure whether or not I want to delve into his books. Perhaps I'm letting the negative reviews I've read influence me too greatly.

So "kill" the reviewers, in order to make up your own mind afterward. Eventually you will have to "kill" Jed, too, if you do read his books and if you like them.

Well, that does make sense. I'll give his first book a try once I catch up with my current backlog of reading material.

[Sparkwielder]

You probably know what I mean. What Jed means. It just resonates well with me. I agree with the idea that enlightenment is a kind of growing up; it seems that it is normal to reach a certain age like 10 or 12 and from there only the physical body seems to get older. The influence of people can be a serious obstacle to actually growing up.

I know exactly what you mean!
[Sparkwielder goes up the stairs....





goes into the kitchen....




Gets the big knife....



and hacks off the end of the bread!]
It's very good, I love it when it is hot like this.
Friendship bread is actually more like cake than bread. The Amish have this "secret" yeast culture that gets passesed around from time to time. It's kind of going around our neighborhood like the flu right now - everyone I have visited this past few weeks is serving Friendship bread. She used chocolate pudding mix in it this time.

Actually, I have never read that book, but I can see your quoted statement relating to the statement I made earlier, although now it is full of burns and bullet holes!

Getting past "male vs. female", and just focusing on the Love of the creator, and what lies beyond the veil so to speak.
I can even see another meaning as well. Sometimes parents really don't like it when kids want to explore outside the confines of family traditions, and can apply the "pressure" to keep them in line. We needed our parents to train us, and help us along for a while, but there comes a point where they just can't answer any more of our questions, and if they try to hold us back out of fear, we just to say "no, this is something I need to explore, please let go of my neck, you are choking me!"

So "kill" the reviewers, in order to make up your own mind afterward. Eventually you will have to "kill" Jed, too, if you do read his books and if you like them.

I know that what I say on here dosen't make sense to a lot of people, but I'll take that risk of looking insane once again:
I can't tell you how many times I have had to kill myself !

[Tom]

It makes perfect sense to me.





It isn't really growing up, which implies continuity and becoming. It is death, over and over, and there is no going back.

[Sparkwielder]

It isn't really growing up, which implies continuity and becoming. It is death, over and over, and there is no going back.

Is that what Jed says in his book?
That sounds more like 'Prison-ship Hell' to me! I remember in Catholic school, the teacher said "Hell is the eternal separation from God", and this quote seems to fit her definition unless I am mis-understanding the quote.

If there is no continuity and becoming, then what's the point of persuing greater knowledge that leads to nowhere? If I bought into this, I would cross my name off the cosmic waiting list for enlightenment! If Jed said that, then I can really understand why Tempest said that it's not for sissies!

[Tom]

Jed said that you don't do it because you want to; you do it because you must do it. He is very specific in saying that most spiritual seekers are wrong in thinking that they are moving forward at all, and that they are actually doing everything they can to avoid getting started. Once you do get started, the first few years are going to be really rough and you won't get anything from going through it. Jed's second book follows Julie, who is introduced in his first book, as she goes through the process using the technique Jed describes in his first book. It might be better to say that the process hapens to Julie and she says at one point that she doesn't see how anyone can do it in the middle of having a normal life, surrounded by people. She is living in a cabin and only going in to town to buy supplies as needed. When I read Jed's first book, it pissed me off and it scared me and it rocked my belief system. It was amazing and wonderful and no matter how many times I re-read the book I couldn't get those feelings back. The second book was more fun and games. After reading the first two books I expected the third book to be easy, but it wasn't. It was really good, and I'm looking forward to when it comes out on CD.

[Timotheus]

[star]

I have done what I can to stop after I got started.
I think I'm on wierd ground.

[Alaskans]

CF illistrated something with the story of the domestication of dogs, they have the same dna as wolves. Its true that we grow by making it through and learning from hardship. I grew in some ways when I had to fight nasties day and night, but waking up at 4am every other week to fight something coming for you,all while trying to supress your fear and summon love. I mainly learned power. I didnt want to live like that. If I enjoyed the fighting, being a wolf, then it would be a different story. I said "It is hard enough, why should I have to fight as well?" ....but looking back I think I cheated myself out of many valuable lessons.

My own experience of my subconscious is feminine. The embodiment of my subconscious in my dreams is always in the form of beloved woman or a goddess-like figure. Modern psychology talks about this, and apparently it's frequently the opposite for women.

I find serenity, self love and greater ego to Truth unity when I bring up a female energy.

Unity of the two could be the main reason for our animal bodies, for men, women, and the physical world. A hopefull act to bring humans back through the sharing of energy and love between couples for those who could not be helped any other way. But for us as spiritual people we have already found ways.
I made a list of positive female and positive male traits and I found that the combination of the two lists makes the most complete beautifull and benevolent being. (I didnt list negative traits because those are simply a result of ego, whereas positive traits are a result of Truth) Of course its about the energies behind the action.

[dreamosis]

I made a list of positive female and positive male traits and I found that the combination of the two lists makes the most complete beautifull and benevolent being.

Would you feel comfortable sharing your list?

[Alaskans]

Thinking about this concept, too, has actually allowed me to see the value of both paths of dark and light. Undertaken consciously, a so-called dark path could be a very realistic attempt to cope with the realities of our world.

I had to come back and protest against this. The charactoristic of our true self is the way it is because it is the only way for the most gratifying, harmonious happy,, and fair existence. Not just for our true self, but for all beings. When acting on Truth, everything works in the favor of not just ourself, but all those involved, no matter the circumstances, nomatter if they are trying to do us harm, they will still bennifit. Truth sets all things right no matter where it is applied, all beings love it wether they know it is truth or not. (that might not be the case for the worste of them but Ive never ran into a person immune to it).

My list is not real accurate because it is a complicated thing to discern.
But these are a couple I am fairly certain of, and thier 'opposite':
Male: Female:
Strength,Resiliance-----------------Innocence
Logic---------------------------------Intuition/abstract
Unity----------------------------------Deviance(ego, life, emotion, creativity)
"Justice"------------------------------Openhearted, free loving
Non-judgement----------------------Beauty

If you combine these then you have some of the charactoristics of our high true self. Loving justice, unconditional beauty, etc. Just one of these attributes is quite an amazing treasure for someone to have.
-I couldnt think of a better word than justice for what I meant