what is the sacred flame?

**ButterflyWoman** · 22nd March 2009, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Timotheus

be free to see the emptiness that needs filling, and be not afraid to make mistakes, for they teach us. and always listen to your true all knowing voice, even if it slightly sends you toward a mistake in wording, it is only meant so that the lesson is fully learned.

That's lovely. Thank you.

watrinh · 22nd March 2009, 02:38 PM

What I meant was if your mind wants to react one way and you react the other there's a fragmentation in your psyche back to dualism. I always thought the goal was to annihilate all the darkness to align with the light. If that's true, then there wouldn't be a negative psychological reaction when you want a neutral or positive reaction. In fact, there wouldn't be a negative reaction period. Then there'd be no fragmentation in your being and you'd be nice and one sided.

Timotheus · 22nd March 2009, 03:31 PM

watrinh · 22nd March 2009, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Timotheus

in the darkness is found the most brilliant light of all. yours lighting your way.

annihilate it? no

respect and love its mystery? yes

the mystery was you all along.

I suppose you won't annihilate the darkness, but harmonize with it. Once you're in harmony with it, then your dark aspect is with the light I suppose.

Timotheus · 22nd March 2009, 03:53 PM

**ButterflyWoman** · 22nd March 2009, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by watrinh

I always thought the goal was to annihilate all the darkness to align with the light.

That's dualism right there. Darkness, light, neither one exists without the other.

As I understand it, the goal is remembering the Truth. I don't think that "good and evil" or "light and dark" or any of those qualifiers really have anything to do with ultimate truth, because all of those are material concepts.

Originally Posted by watrinh

If that's true, then there wouldn't be a negative psychological reaction when you want a neutral or positive reaction.

I don't understand what you mean.

Yes, your psyche/ego/whatever you want to call it can have weird and stupid and harmful reactions to things. Fixing those things is a worthy pursuit. But that's not spiritual enlightenment. It may HELP in that regard, but simply repairing or healing parts of your personality is only just that. Your personality/ego/etc is material. It's not really YOU. The goal is to come to see the absolute truth of who you really are, and it's not your ego/personality/thoughts/emotions/reactions/etc.

BUT... this assumes that there even is a "goal". I'm not convinced there is. Is it really necessary or even likely for every person to have a full and abiding spiritual awakening to their own Godself? I think the answer to that is obviously, no. Maybe the purpose of existence is just for the experience of existing, to alleviate the boredom of Source, by creating all these interesting characters (i.e., us) and putting them into a very convincing virtual simulation and then actually being all the characters. A very complicated game of solitaire, as it were... *shrug*

star · 22nd March 2009, 06:22 PM

The source must have an awesome imagination

**ButterflyWoman** · 22nd March 2009, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by star

The source must have an awesome imagination

An infinite one.

watrinh · 23rd March 2009, 02:00 AM

Hmm...

How do I say it... If you merge back to oneness, you'd essentially be merging the dualistic opposite polarities together. After which you would manifest your true nature, which is one of the three: light, dark, or neutral. After all, when you merge darkness with the light, one of three things happen: you have more darkness in your nature than light, so you become totally dark; you have more light than darkness, so you manifest as a light being; you're totally neutral, so you manifest as a neutral being (buddhic?). You're either of total light, neutral, or dark. The three never disappear. Just a thought. Not sure what actually happens.

**ButterflyWoman** · 23rd March 2009, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by watrinh

If you merge back to oneness, you'd essentially be merging the dualistic opposite polarities together. After which you would manifest your true nature, which is one of the three: light, dark, or neutral. After all, when you merge darkness with the light, one of three things happen: you have more darkness in your nature than light, so you become totally dark; you have more light than darkness, so you manifest as a light being; you're totally neutral, so you manifest as a neutral being (buddhic?).

Sounds complicated.

Originally Posted by watrinh

You're either of total light, neutral, or dark.

Those are egoic definitions, though. I'm making no claim to enlightenment, but what glimpses I have had indicate that there is no "good" or "bad" or "light" or "dark". There just is. It all just is what it is, and that's very obvious when attachments are not in effect.

I was just reading an excellent book this afternoon, and I wanted to quote from it, but I can't find where I put it down when I came in. It's by Adyashanti, and it's called "The End of Your World". It's an excellent book, with very good and practical insights in the the process of enlightenment (which is why I wanted to quote from it). When I find it again I'll come back and share a couple things that struck me in relation to this conversation.

Do note that this conversation is, from my point of view, for my own edification and to allow me to define some stuff in my own consciousness. I don't particularly care or need to "convert" anyone.

I'm not that kind of spiritualist.