Christian Mystics

[Palehorse Redivivus]

In general do any of the Christian Mystics here practice and work with the salvation thing? That's what gets me, the idea of needing an external savior to save from..well, from what I'm not sure.

I started pursuing mysticism shortly after discovering the idea of universal salvation... and while I'm no longer explicitly Christian, Jesus still figures prominently into my worldview, so I s'pose I can venture an answer too.

I thought then, and still do to some extent, that Jesus may have opened up a new way to connect with the divine that was not previously accessible to very many people. There may have been a few throughout history, but if my suspicions are correct, then he busted the dam wide open in a way that gives everybody a better shot at it. This would be the meaning of "rending the veil." Before then, connecting with God on an individual level, making your spirituality your own and actually cultivating a personal connection with the divine (or even a strong concept of individual identity for that matter), wasn't really the done thing. Religion was more communal / institutional, and the priestly intermediaries were relied on to connect with God on behalf of the laypeople. I think I've brought up before that artists didn't start signing their work till the medieval period, and it was also common to attribute your writing to someone else whose word would carry more weight, because there just wasn't any concept of individual contributions being important. I can't help but wonder if Jesus had something to do with that particular shift in consciousness... even if the church has been trying to stitch the veil back up again ever since.

I also lean toward the Gnostic view that Jesus liberated himself from the world (and of course there are different views on exactly what that means) and sought to show us how we could do the same. The Gnostics were early Christian mystics (so it counts! ), though they're rather different from what are known as the major traditions of Christian mysticism today, most of which comes from the major figures of medieval Catholic and Orthodox mysticism. Unfortunately IMO Jesus' message was "follow your own path no matter where it leads" (even if it happens to lead to pissing off the Romans and the unpleasantness that would result) -- and people took that in the direction of "let's all die just like that guy!" It's like the saying all of our moms used to hit us with -- "if he jumped off a bridge, would you do that too?" Except that much of early Christendom would have said "yep!" And "whoosh" goes the whole point. *shakes head*

Suffice to say I don't think Jesus meant to "save" anybody from anything, although I do think that in a sense he did show us how to save ourselves.

[Timotheus]

[CFTraveler]

In a completely unrelated instance, Robert Bruce writes:

"....Do you want to save the world?
Start by saving yourself.
You can only change your self.
..."

Ain't synchronicity grand?
For the whole message, go to:
http://blog.astraldynamics.com/?p=930

[Jaco]

Even by traditional orthodoxy, you don't have to "do" anything to "receive" salvation, so there's nothing to work or practice. It's supposed to be a gift, a grace.

I would disagree.

You're welcome to do so. I'm basing this on my reading of the Bible and many years of contemplative prayer and meditation. You can base your opinion on whatever you want.

Olderwiser, your view on christianity comes from your experience. All I am saying that this is not the only view of Christianity out there, there are others, some of which take quite a different approach at things and see the entire Christian "universe" differently. And for followers of those paths that is the truth, which can be backed by mystical experiences they see as a proof of that truth, as you do I believe. Your truths are your truths alone, and they may not even be truths. With the other views of the Christianity it is the same.

In fact you do have to do something to receive salvation in some (maybe in most) Christian churches - you have to be a follower of Christ.

Again, "church". I already said that CHURCHES put rules and regulations on the gift. Are you sincerely unable to understand that God doesn't live in a church or follow the rules set forth by a bunch of deacons or bishops or whomever else decides to be in charge of people's souls, or are you just being argumentative for the sake of it?

I just pointed a thing that I noticed about this statement:

Even by traditional orthodoxy, you don't have to "do" anything to "receive" salvation, so there's nothing to work or practice. It's supposed to be a gift, a grace.

And I disagree with it because according to some "traditional orthodoxy" (roman catholic and protestant - I checked those two) unless you have faith in Christ/god you won't get saved. And in fact for roman catholic the faith is not enough to grant you salvation, you have to also live a "faithful"(good christian) life.
I don't want to argument, but the orthodox dogma is still a truth for many.
You say they are not right. They say they are right. So?
As for me - Christianity is a folk tale with bits and pieces of universal (common in many places) wisdom stuck here and there. No Jesus the half-god, no salvation, none of that.

Some people truly believe that.

So? People believe all kinds of stuff. Again, this is nothing at all to do with mysticism.

But the way you can interpret an experience can be dependent on a belief.

Blessings to you and everyone

[star]

@star:
No, I don't believe there was never any stuff about 'salvation' anyway, that's cultural talk.
If you look at the historicity of the bible, Jesus was around when his country was occupied by the romans. So if there was any need for 'salvation' it was a need to 'be delivered' of the romans. In other words, it's what got him crucified, along with any other jewish dissenter at the times. Just take a read of how many people Nero boasted about having crucified.
Christian metaphysics describe 'salvation' as the internal process you go through which eliminates all error thinking.
Error thought is the type of thinking that makes you think you are a miserable sinner and a victim of the 'World'.
So salvation is the realization that God is in you (i.e. the Christ presence) and that God doesn't make mistakes, therefore you are co-creator.
So you are not 'saved' of any external circumstance, except for the 'belief' in external circumstance.
Dig?

That sounds like the psyche work, and digging into core issues, or even understanding our emotions... its described by Franz Bardon and other authors I'm sure, just in Bardon's case it has to be done before you even take a single step forward.

[CFTraveler]

Yep. But you have to realize that most modern western metaphysicians were christian- it's just that some kept the title and expanded their christianity, while others decided to go another way. Either way, we all started from the same template, so to speak.