Science Cannot Fully Describe Reality

**ButterflyWoman** · 26th March 2009, 01:14 PM

The link to this article was in Robert's blog, but in case you didn't see it:

What is reality? French physicist Bernard d'Espagnat, 87, has spent a lifetime grappling with this question. Over the years, he has developed the idea that the reality revealed by science offers only a "veiled" view of an underlying reality that science cannot access, and that the scientific view must take its place alongside the reality revealed by art, spirituality, and other forms of human inquiry.

Read more: http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/co ... 316/1?etoc

**megraelyn** · 21st February 2010, 02:08 AM

I suppose that would make sense and always be the case if the underlying reality were perfect oneness and spirit. Measurement implies separation and the need for it implies lack. Plus science would be meaningless in a state of complete knowledge. His next question should have been, "how do I experience/become fully aware of the underlying reality?" I want to meet the person with the answer to that!

**Tutor** · 21st February 2010, 04:27 AM

Reality cannot fully describe science

**megraelyn** · 21st February 2010, 04:24 PM

That's duality. Which also means only one of the two can actually BE Real.

Ouroboros · 21st February 2010, 06:34 PM

Fortunately for us, reality isn't real!

**megraelyn** · 21st February 2010, 07:00 PM

Very true. I just wish I knew how to actually experience that more!!

Ouroboros · 21st February 2010, 07:14 PM

Me and you both! Well, actually...I know HOW to (meditation)...it's just a matter of devoting the appropriate time to the processes. Something I haven't been very good about.

**ButterflyWoman** · 21st February 2010, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by megraelyn

Very true. I just wish I knew how to actually experience that more!!

What the unreality of so-called reality? My advice would be to intend to experience it, understand it, etc. Intend it sincerely, and make sure you acknowledge that you may have beliefs, ideas, habits, etc., which make it difficult, and that you're willing for those to be broken down or dissolved. Then submit to the process, whatever that ends up being.

For me, the first real experience of it was the sensation that I was in a dream, exactly like when you have a lucid dream. Except I was awake at the time.

I will tell you it's a weird ride sometimes. Very Alice in Wonderland at times. I've had a lot of bizarre existential crises that made me quite disoriented (not so much that I couldn't function), strange fluctuations in reality, reality shifts, and so on. It takes some getting used to. Eventually, though, you get your "sea legs" so to speak.

Sincere intention plus surrender to the process. That always works for me.

**Tutor** · 22nd February 2010, 01:21 AM

CaterpillarWoman,

agreed, ride that reality till the wheels fall off..integrate.

Duality in the sense of two is the illusion, however both seeming sides of the coin are very real towards an integral pov, that pov being the third component of wholeness.

kinda like the number 132, where 1 is our 'real' sight, 2 is our second sight, and 3 is that insight which beholds 1 and 2 from 3, such that 1 and 2 know what the other is doing.

if one is constrained to either 1 or 2, or leaps back and forth without rhyme or reason, then duality reigns over them. if one is one in 3, then one reigns over, as in dominion over.

dominion is not mastership, it is rather the skillset of one letting it (1&2) be 'as it is'. no need for virtue caused by rooted vice, no want for vice caused by an ascetic bent toward vice.

the human is ever in both complimenting of oneness, yet neither contigent is too rule or embattle against the other. perhaps, the deeper roots of utilizing 'the art of war' have been lost to history's strategists having only taken notice in a superficial external use alone, they forgetting the 'of' wherein Peace rests in Oneness.

as arjuna, all things need be considered from the center where the seeming two line up for what seems as empending battle. So many clamoring voices awaiting the Voice of Oneness to take the reins. all those voices heard through and within one...the beleaguered YOU.

T

**megraelyn** · 22nd February 2010, 05:16 AM

CaterpillarWoman:

That's pretty much the perfect thing for me to hear...thanks. When you talk about sincere intention, is that just the unhindered desire to experience Reality as it is or is there something more to it for you?

I had a similar experience once, it was like I was experiencing eternity and oneness and it was awesome, but I have not been able to get back. As a 25 year old (with ADD) I understand that a lot of my problem is being able to calm the hell down and "submit to the process", but for some reason I still have a difficult time actually doing that. Sometimes I feel like fear of the process prevents me from being completely open to it, but when I ask myself what I'm so afraid of, I draw a blank.

I'm actively working on breaking down the barriers you spoke of, but I'm pretty stuck at not being fearful of the Alice in Wonderland-ness of it all. I was raised Mormon and then went born again Christian until a few years ago, so I think there is a very childish voice in me that keeps getting scared of "evil" (although I can acknowledge that ultimately it is my own creation-just don't remember that in the moment) and of parting with the idea of a body during certain experiences, as though I'm doing something "sinful" (although in my "normal" waking life, I feel as though sin doesn't really exist in the way I thought it did before). Any ideas on how to let that go?

Thanks a lot for your help and advice! Much appreciated!