How much choice is involved in the process of reincarnation?

[Palehorse Redivivus]

This brings the question, how ethical is it to have someone agree to endure something awful, and then impose upon them a cloud of amnesia that makes them forget they ever made the agreement?

My hunch is that this is one of the many New Age beliefs carried over from mainstream religion. Really, how is it much different from telling someone with no inclination toward your religion of choice, "you didn't accept my brand of religion, so you deliberately chose to be tortured / killed / burn in hell for all eternity"?

On the other hand, I can say that there are things in the subconscious mind that are willing and capable of inflicting every last bit of suffering you've endured with uncanny precision, regardless of your choices, intentions or awareness that they exist. Your unconscious "stuff" comes into resonance and proximity with a person, entity or situation that resonates with that specific type of suffering, and voila: you've got a shyte sammich; bon appetit.

If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you.
- Gospel of Thomas, verse 70.

Yeah, that. Kind of a raw deal at times, but that seems to be what the situation is. Doesn't mean those who choose to "help" our darkest aspects play out in the physical aren't responsible for their choices; it would be much more efficient and effective if we were able to observe and point out each other's blind spots and say "yo, dude, you might want to be aware of this before it plays out," rather than this situation where those in power are essentially the most proficient at both causing and evading responsibility for suffering (though to some extent, we all do this, it should be said).

The situation is that we've got suffering, we've got amnesia, and we know those two are pretty closely connected. What we can only speculate on is the origin of this whole situation... until we figure out how to cure the amnesia. Thus, I'd say focusing on the solution, rather than the problem, would probably be the most effective way of not perpetuating the problem.

[Wallbridge]

That quote and my epiphany/possible Mr. H meeting helped, Pale, ymu and OW, thanks!

Marriage and parenthood have required me to give up a lot in my life, and to accept many restrictions that are very much not artificial. I can no longer wake up when I wish, meet the people I want to meet, move to or tour new cities, or even go for a walk as long as I have two other people to care for. But thanks to my experience last week and your support, I no longer view this situation as something to suffer. I once viewed my life as a cage, and I was waiting for the release of death to get me out of the box and into the sunshine of a new life. Now I view my life as eating a delicious plate of spaghetti and cheese, with a big ol' malt milkshake waiting when this life is done and I accept my new life. It's getting much better to be me, frankly.

It's weird, because I have gone through this stage of emotional trouble being cured by deep meditation and support from others, and the timelines went like this:

8 years - Depressed
4 years - Angry
2 years - Faithless

I wonder what the next emotional situation to arise will be, and whether it will take 1 year to conquer.

As for your concern, ymu, I felt that way before, too. It took a lot of looking inwards to find my answer, and though I claimed to trust the otherside two years ago, it seems I had even more to learn once I got married. From where I stand now, what I feel is that there are pieces of our lives that are pre-destined to happen, such as parents' divorce, marriage, college, etc..., but everything in-between is up to us to choose willingly. During that time, we can enjoy our free time watching TV, spend it with friends and family, meditate, study, or even choose entire new paths to follow in our lives. Everything that was chosen by us to experience before we came here was agreed to, not just as a willy-nilly whim, but because every experience we chose has something to help us learn and grow. I once hated my life for everything that was going wrong in my mind and family, but as I confronted and rose above my circumstances, I learned to appreciate what I took away from each experience. Even the worst things that we can imagine can leave us stronger, happier and more free in the end.

I guess what I want to say is have faith that you made the right choices before you came here, and keep your eyes peeled and mind open for the things you wanted to learn so you can achieve the goals you set for yourself. Have faith that the "other" you knows what's best for the you reading these words.

[ButterflyWoman]

I once viewed my life as a cage, and I was waiting for the release of death to get me out of the box and into the sunshine of a new life.

Ouch. Been there, done that. (Not in relation to parenthood or marriage, though.)

Now I view my life as eating a delicious plate of spaghetti and cheese, with a big ol' malt milkshake waiting when this life is done and I accept my new life. It's getting much better to be me, frankly.

Fantastic! I'm gratified to have been of some help to you.

[ymunio]

I guess what I want to say is have faith that you made the right choices before you came here, and keep your eyes peeled and mind open for the things you wanted to learn so you can achieve the goals you set for yourself. Have faith that the "other" you knows what's best for the you reading these words.

That was my first inclination, to just trust the other side, when i was first regaining my spiritual memory of past/future/between-life events. You remember life-planning sessions where you discuss with spirit guides ad nauseam what karmic accounts you still have open, what life lessons you need to work on, you map out timelines with life-planners as if free will is just an illusion you enjoy during incarnations. You really want to hope that during those times you really had your best interests in mind. However if there's one thing I've learned in this life, it's the necessity for constant discernment, for always questioning assumptions, for re-evaluating trust placed in even the closest of relationships. Not out of fear, but out of the need for constant and ongoing discernment, which I think comes with understanding and experience with negatively-oriented entities and how they operate. It's a whole series of lessons we go through after we're done with power/control lessons and have learned to empathize with others. We get to learn how negative entities use our own tendencies for trust and love until we learn to balance those things with wisdom and understanding. My own mother tried to kill me in 2002. Naturally I'm going to question motives of my spirit guides.

[Palehorse Redivivus]

Ymunio -- I reached pretty much the same position you did on it, though not in the same way. Suffice to say that bureaucracy "up there" is serving roughly the same purpose as it is down here, and the only real purpose served by either, other than the best interest of the bureaucracy itself, is to present another set of obstacles to overcome.

As an aside, if you're having problems that seem to originate with mom -- check your anima (unconscious female aspect in men). Not saying some problems *don't* originate with mom in some cases, but the anima is where they all end up (and then originate from and self-perpetuate, from then onward). Being unable to trust one's biological mom additionally tends to create trust issues, and manifest *reasons* to mistrust, across the board.

[Wallbridge]

A whole year, huh? Cool. Here's a little update.

I started doing lucid dream work by keeping dream journals, and 100% of the eighty or so dreams I recorded over a six month period fell into three categories:

1. I'm having a hugely fun time with my life, then someone or something comes along to force an end to all of it.
2. I'm living in a video game (which is just a reference to how I spend my free time).
3. A combination of 1 & 2.

I had two experiences where I was close to separating. In one dream I was climbing to the top of a haunted apartment building to exorcise the spirits on the top floor (Ghostbusters?), there was a loud "pop" and I knew I was dreaming. The second, I don't remember the dream, but I felt a rushing feeling in my body, knew I was dreaming, then partially separated with minimal consciousness before "going back to sleep."

I stopped doing dream work when real life drama reared its ugly head and I no longer had the strength to continue on with it. So then, I turned my attention to what I could physically do to assure stronger spirituality, which would lead to being more awake when I die, and therefore having more choice on my next life.

To that end, I quit smoking cold turkey three months ago and haven't touched a cigarette since. This is to avoid a possible situation of dying early, then being told, "Hey, you did really well taking care of your family, but you didn't finish your life as you were supposed to! You didn't have the experience of being a grandfather, and an old married man! Now you have to go back and get married again the next life and do it all over again!"

Also, and more importantly, I pray for misfortune, trouble and pain to befall me, and only me. This way, I can temper my own spirit as much as possible this life, which feels like little more than a training life to me. This will also leave the next life to live in the service of others, but also give me the opportunity to follow my dreams and enjoy myself, too.

I think I'll go back to the dream journals and try to AP some more tonight. Six months is the longest I've ever done consecutive astral projection training... so maybe I can bump it up to twelve this time.

[Wallbridge]

Thanks for your kind words, friend. Itry to do the right thing at all times, though I still make mistakes. You are correct that I could try to help out more people now, too. I try to keep my eyes peeled for people who need help, though I could be doing more.

I'm hoping that by shovelling out and dealing with all my major karmic baggage now, that I can use this life that didn't turn out as I hoped as a springboard to the one I want to live next time around. That way, I'll spend less time moping around and accomplishing nothing in this life that I don't particularly like, and use that time to get some real work done. Lord knows, given my history of depression, I've probably spent more than enough of my past lives sitting around and feeling sorry for myself without trying to better things.

The stronger I become, the more people I can assist, and the better my chances of finding happiness for myself, too. Honor and service come first, but if I can suffer and endure enough this life, I think I can shoot for it all the next time around.

[Korpo]

Hello, Wallbridge.

Karma is a lot about learning what you have to learn. Suffering isn't synonymous with karma, it's something that has a lot to do with our attitudes and expectations. However, it's not as easily transcended as just realising that, it takes some work.

So, instead of asking for bad luck, which isn't karma at all, you might ask for the lessons that will help you to grow (they will be challenging) and the discriminating wisdom and endurance you might need to successfully learn them.

Learning through suffering without understanding is probably the slowest way. You don't realize yet what opportunity lies before you by the simple fact that you can lucidly reflect your circumstances. You can explore this opportunity. There's no guarantee that whatever you originally thought worthwhile is actually your plan for this lifetime, nor is there any reason to think of a lifetime as a failure as long as you have opportunity to grow and learn.

Cheers,
Oliver

[Wallbridge]

Sorry, I didn't explain anything very well at all. I'm a dork that way; please let me try again, if I may.

When I ask for suffering and pain, Korpo, it is for the express purpose of helping me to overcome hidden karmic debt and emotional baggage I haven't dealt with yet. For example, I didn't know that I had trouble with anger due to the disobedience and poor behavior of those in my charge (my students and son), and I have irrationally blown my top several times with really bad kids over the last three years.

But when I asked for suffering to help highlight and overcome my inner faults, very shortly after, I had an entire week of godawful students and temper-santrum son moments. And because I knew I was training myself every minute of my life, I was able to step back and reflect on how I could act at those moments, and chose a path that didn't involve me screaming at them to stop.

When I had successfully solved several similar student and son situations (alliteration ftw), I knew I had made major headway into my anger issues, and asked for the next test to make me stronger. Later, I fought with my wife over something stupid and walked out of the house to clear my head, returned, then vowed never to leave in the middle of a fight again. I learned a little humility, then I asked for more trials. And so on!

Also, I haven't been depressed for about seven years. When I decided I wanted to stop being a victim and start taking control of my life, I firmly set my mind to getting better and didn't stop until I was done. But I thank you for your advice all the same, Ether.

I also heavily subscribe to the Buddhist principle that "Attachment Leads to Suffering." In fact, when a Buddhist friend of mine told me that a few years ago as just an off-hand comment, it changed my life. Unfortunately, I didn't take the advice to heart before I got married, but after I've learned my lessons, and taken care of and loved my family this life, I hope to make this adage a part of my next life, right behind "Honor First," "Grow and Experience" and "Never Give Up."

I'm dream journalin' again tonight. Wish me luck!

[Korpo]

Hello, Wallbridge.

Understood. What I tried to say, however, is that your wish/intention/affirmation would allow for a lot more positive outcomes and lessons if you used a neutral term like "learning." You're kind of excluding that possibility by allowing only for bad stuff, possibly because of a limited understanding of karma. Karma isn't bad by itself, that's a human concept that got attached to it.

Your lessons might not always show up in a different way if you switch terms - but sometimes they might. Also, it involves breaking down the belief structures about a connection between suffering, "bad karma" and hardship of some kind. Changing the way you talk about it can be an important step in opening up to that possibility.

Cheers,
Oliver