Dispelling the Loosh myth

[Palehorse Redivivus]

but, the problem is, there is some fool woman online using his theory to try and get people not to meditate. I found this place attempting to refute her arguements, which worked, because none of the trolls on the particular forum could refute what I did to her articles.

Disagreeing with someone's major premises and general philosophy is all well and good, but where does she recommend against meditation? I've read a good deal of her articles, and it seemed to me she was just anti-guru, suspicious of the concept of enlightenment and a proponent of RM's take on the loosh concept. Mantra meditation, maybe, though I'd be inclined to agree with the premise there -- know and understand where you're sending your energy and intention, and whether you actually condone what you're putting it into, rather than just repeating a phrase. I can understand how that would be problematic, as no doubt many of those mantras come with well established thoughtforms attached, or may be associated with a specific entity. At the very least, it's going to program the subconscious mind just as an affirmation would, which I'd think would make it important to have a good working knowledge of what you're putting in there.

[Korpo]

Hence why Eknath Easwaran recommends chosing your mantra yourself from a holy scripture. If you find your mantra attractive and want to learn more about it, all the better, because repeating the mantra connects you with the energy behind the lines, the energy/information that is not expressed in the words.

Oliver

[eyeoneblack]

Wow, pretty deep stuff. What a great wrap-up of 'involution' and the bit about love lowering entropy, very thought provoking.

I knew (I guess it's 'Oliver') pretty much who the possible authors of the theosophical input were, probably Bessant or Leadbeater - they worked together quite a bit, but I really don't believe they are representative of the general doctrines of theosophy. Well, certainly they are if you are in their camp. I'm not howver. The founder of the modern movement in the late 1870s, Helena Blavatsky, relegates the soul to the astral and speaks of the spirit thereafter in various terms; nous comes to mind, but whatever, it is that undifferntiated spark of the Monad returning to its origin.

This really makes little difference except that in the first model there is wiggle room for the survival of the individual, whereas in the second there is hardly any. So difficult is it for us in the West to imagine our personality not surviving that even Blavatsky argues against the presumed anihilation of the individual even in the attainment of Nirvana (becoming as a drop in the ocean). Personally, I'll drop the soul at the level of the astral as it being only the vehicle of astral embodiment of the spirit. Beyond that (mental, causal, Buddhic) anything related to 'I' will have lost any significance.

And if love lowers entropy, why was it high to begin with? One would assume that the condition before conditions must have been of very low entropy, i.e. The Limitless Light is of the lowest possible entropy. So, entropy increases over time. Why would love be concerned with lowering it again? Unless of course your purpose is to create stars and galaxies where a region of low entropy might produce a random fluctuation disturbing the smoothness of the cosmic sea and setting the stage for the organization of matter. But then love would be involutionary, not evolutionary. Now I'm lost

[Korpo]

Hello, eyeoneblack.

Beyond that (mental, causal, Buddhic) anything related to 'I' will have lost any significance.

You are talking of a model. Personal experience of explorers does not necessarily validate this. Models provide frameworks for experience, but where they replace experience it becomes difficult. There is no longer a real way to assert their usefulness. They just float around in mental space never being validated or invalidated.

The branch of theosophy fueled so heavily by Besant and Leadbeater is a source of information others have used to give a framework of understanding that has proved to be highly useful in making sense of my own experiences, it has expanded my understanding and has brought me in touch with more aspects of myself than I've ever hoped for. That's the true test for me, that's what helps me discern which information is useful and which is not.

As to the issue quoted above - from experience this one could be resolved - your mind of concrete thought comes from the "mental level" - that's basically the definition of it. There is most definitely an "I" there. As I write this, there is a sense of "I am writing this." There is a sense of "I am thinking my thoughts." While this is also to an extent an illusion which I know from an experience with my mind I once had, this sense of "I" is real at least on the mental level.

Meditation is part of bit by bit dispelling this illusion of "I am this, I am that." Once you have started observing your emotions, how they arise without your doing and how they vanish without you being able to hold on to them your sense of "I am my emotions" weakens. Similarly once you have observed how even your thoughts can arise and be observed without your doing you will realise that you are not your thoughts.

From a more conceptual point of view I'd say these stages transcend the more limited sense of "I" present in the lower bodies and slowly diminish this sense of separate self. But a sense of "I" is there. Identification with your physical self ("I am my body") leads to physical/etherical experiences, identification with your emotional self ("I am my feelings") leads to the astral experiences and identification with the concrete mind ("I am what I think / I think therefore I am") leads to the lower mental experiences.

Oliver

[eyeoneblack]

I want to get back to Korpo's last entry, but this has come to mind and it has to go, now.

NOT THE ENGINEER'S ENTROPY

Entropy to the engineer represents degradation and decay of a physical system which is a bad thing. However, from the perspective of the involution and evolution of Spirit, entropy represents the exhaustion of potential - a good thing.
If I, in my subjective 'existence', have an idea of three particles and I cast them down into the objective world they are free to interact with each other. Particle 'A' will bump into particle 'B' and in so doing will share information relative to mass and angular momemtum. Whereas they were identical to each other initially, they are now different from each other in some way depending on the nature of the collision. Now let's say 'B' bumps into 'C', there's another exchange of information.

Entropy maintains that the three particles will explore every possible combination of colliding with each other to the end that they are once again identical and in a state of equilibrium. And yet each particle arrived at the new-found condition by a unique combination of collisions.

This oversimplified anology is rather how I understand evolution of Spirit. Whereas God represents low entropic condition of pure potential, the prefected soul represents the the high entropic condition of the exhaustion of that potential with a history. And with a nod to Korpo, perhaps it is just that unique combination of collisions, that history, that is the 'I' of the evolved mental and causal self.

[eyeoneblack]

I'm sorry Oliver for getting so far off topic. You were discussing Monroe's Loosh and the possibility that we Earthlings might merely be a colony of some super-race farmed for our ability to produce a commodity called Loosh (or unselfish love). If I remember correctly I was inspired by the Loosh story when I read it, of course Monroe was the one to introduce me to all this fantastic stuff and I was a quick convert and book-thumping disciple of ROBERT MONROE. I bet many of us have a similar story.

But I have hung in the smoke house (cured) many years since then , not that I am any less enthusiastic, but I have lost practically any sense of sentimentality and by golly, if any Beings are farming our poor people for the production of Loosh? well, let them make their own dam Loosh. It's the hardest thing we do down here and we need every bit of it.

But seriously, Loosh is not a commodity. Loosh belongs to a dimension where if it is one place, it is every place. It's always right at hand no matter where you are on the planet or in the universe. It is a signal that permeates all space, not that it wouldn't hurt to make it stronger, make it louder.

[Korpo]

Now I think you lost your original train of thought.

I really don't take the Loosh story literally at all. I think it got garbled by Monroe's developing inner senses, and tried to find out what the symbolism is actually pointing to.

I think Monroe just received a download that told him that in our Earth Learning System we pass on refined qualities of our learning to higher aspects of our self. Similarly Monroe could not identify his particular INSPEC friend as a future variation of himself, either.

I don't believe in the Loosh farm at all.

Oliver

[eyeoneblack]

I don't believe in the Loosh farm at all.
Oliver

Didn't reckon ya' did.

I understood you, too, were reframing your thoughts from an earlier time - like me. Afterall, we needn't fix Monroe, no excuses are necessary and even if you find a forward thinking rationale, it's just good work. Personally, I never thought to BELIEVE a word Monroe wrote, I only marvel at the journey that gave him the story. Writers on astral projection and such should stay away from depositions on the meaning of life. Their talent does not equal nor even compare to true mystics.

I'll probably regret that .

[Korpo]

That would be a misrepresentation of Monroe as well. He made definite progress. He became much deeper than that. Surely the Monroe of "Ultimate Journey" is a far different person.

Oliver

[eyeoneblack]

That would be a misrepresentation of Monroe as well. He made definite progress. He became much deeper than that. Surely the Monroe of "Ultimate Journey" is a far different person.

Oliver

So see? I need to get up to speed. It's been too long since I've read the gurus latest thoughts and experiences; they have surely evolved. Give me a few days and I'll see.

Most respectflly,

Eye