STOP masturbating NOW.

[Korpo]

When I asked if I should follow through with my sacrafice I got (rider) the 5 of cups(body/present), death(mind/future), then 3 of wands(soul/outcome).. thats one, very clear, opinion. I do not see the value of finding a lover without if I have not found one within. And to need is to be unfulfilled. But perhaps you can share your wisdom and provide me death. Why isnt sharing energy with someone good enough? Isnt the balancing and learning between male/female, and the life energy created the point of their interaction? I want to hear why such intolerance for the idea of living without physical sex/masterbation.

Why such "intolerance" both ways, actually... There's no black-and-white answer here, I'd say.

Some people have a natural tendency for celibacy and some for companionship. I'd say that this is because they learn different lessons in this particular lifetime.

One prefers to be as "undistracted" as possible and choses this lifestyle basically before birth, and can run with it. This kind of people feel the pressure of society to conform to the "norm" until they overcome it and then basically are content with the celibate experience.

Other people prefer to learn about companionship in many facets, and may be enhancing it later on in ways which are as of yet inaccessible for most. Such a person cannot really be celibate, but is also ill-served if accepting society standards about how relationships and sex should be.

But this is about how one is basically constructed, down at very deep level, in one particular lifetime. Just as you have no control over the fact if you are gay, hetero, bisexual, asexual or whatever deep down - each is tailored for creating certain lessons and experiences.

On the other hand, I still think the whole concept of "sexual alchemy" is way overblown and has little relevance. The little body energy that is given away by ejaculating or whatever is in my opinion really insubstantial. Else you would feel literally and strongly drained. Your body would tell you, it knows best. Strangely enough most bodies benefit from orgasms energetically and don't mind the "loss" much.

What people rather might feel if they feel a loss is the possible energy drain by feeling they have to act certain ways, by involving themselves with certain partners who take their energy, and so on. I'm talking mainly about emotional and mental energies here.

And this is where it from my point of view gets really interesting, not with the spoonful that the "alchemists" are so obsessed about. When masturbation happens from an obsession, compulsion or extreme fetish, I would be wondering about what it does to the mental and emotional health, or better - I would wonder what it says about the mental and emotional health of the person involved. It's more like an outward symbol of what's going on inside. Why the compulsion or obsession?

Then again, I think it's pretty normal (for those who feel the need) in most cases.

Oliver

[CFTraveler]

it shouldnt be automaticly dismissed without further discussion.

This is further discussion. All points of view should be considered, but if they are not based on fact, that has to be brought to light also. Why defensiveness? Because I live in a society that has perverted sex to such extent (and when I mean perverted, I mean assigned 'dirty' value to it while at the same time used to market other things) that it has caused all kinds of social problems, pornography and STDs to name a few.

If we lived in a society that views sexuality for what it is, normal and natural, and masturbation for what it is, a safe release that keeps you from making mistakes (like marrying for sex or having sex with the wrong person) a lot of families that are divorced would still be together.
If sex were viewed as what it is, a normal biological impulse, it wouldn't be given such importance, and advertisers wouldn't be able to use it to sell products.
If celibacy weren't viewed as a 'badge of honor', there would be a lot less priests molesting children, or less pedophiles would become priests to have access to them in the first place.
I could go on and on, but you get the picture.

The best way to assign false importance to anything is to make it taboo- and a strong impulse like the sex impulse has been used exactly for that- deny it and people crave it. Then channel that need it for your own control purposes. How many cults have we seen that do exactly just that?

Self control is really a good thing for anyone- but self denial makes you a prime candidate to be someone else's puppet. In that way you are right, Alaskans, being celibate is something that a 'special' few can do successfully and not become something else than what was desired- so it's only for a select few.

But for most people, self denial means- don't do this, do what I say instead.

[ButterflyWoman]

phew abnormal amount of defensiveness

I'm not defensive. I can, of course, be considered abnormal. And I really do wonder what the big deal is with masturbation.

it shouldnt be automaticly dismissed without further discussion.

In what way do you consider this ongoing thread to be "not discussing"?

I dont single it out, its just one of countless 'distractions' I give up

That's fair enough.

I do not see the value of finding a lover without if I have not found one within.

Again, that's fair enough. I have no issue with celibacy. I'm sorry if it came across that way.

Why isnt sharing energy with someone good enough?

What's that got to do with masturbation? Seriously, maybe I'm confused (happens with regularity), but I don't see the connection.

I want to hear why such intolerance for the idea of living without physical sex/masterbation.

I don't have an intolerence. You can touch or not touch your body parts as you wish. You can also choose not to eat meat. You can choose to shave your head. You can go and live in the desert and subsist on locusts and honey. You can do whatever you like, and if you have reasons for choosing those things, well, more power to you.

I just don't think that masturbation is especially harmful in a general way, and I don't think it's got much to do with spirituality one way or the other, unless it's something that's distracting or obsessive. That was pretty much my only point, and I intended it to be lighthearted. I know it's easy to get mistaken in plain text, and I do apologise if I came across all stern, but, honestly, it's not as serious as all that.

I wonder how anyone could read outrage or intolerance into what I wrote? There was no such intention.

[Neil Templar]

i once knew a guy who so strongly believed in conserving his energy that he would swallow all his fluid after ejaculating, every time.

i hope he carried mouthwash with him at all times!!

[Neil Templar]

i'm sorely tempted to start another thread now -
START masturbating NOW!!!

but i won't, for the sake of those browsing the forum who've missed this delightful discourse.

what fun!!!

[CFTraveler]

This thread is turning into 'the gift that keeps on givin'.

[Ouroboros]

I have found this discourse to be quite enlightening - please keep the posts coming.

[turbulenceadams]

i once knew a guy who so strongly believed in conserving his energy that he would swallow all his fluid after ejaculating, every time.

i hope he carried mouthwash with him at all times!!

No way! Well at least he was getting his potassium and zinc intake.

[WanderRA]

To put it in other words.. having been nearly a month now without ejaculating, if you want more energy, focus, clearer/more vivid dreams, hightened focus/meditation.. stop masturbating. It matters not what is natural.. if you stop masturbating.. you may feel these benefits aswell.. as someone wisely said we are all different. Ive taken to this path cos I am always seeking new ways to increase my energy.
Other examples include.. not drinking/smoking, no fizzy drinks, eating raw food/ green smoothies, regular excersise/meditation. Next on the list is to give up sugar. Thats the big one. the big one behind all other addictions imo..

[Alaskans]

I like it, this discussion helps give me a form, though I see it is soon over.

I don't have an intolerence. You can touch or not touch your body parts as you wish. You can also choose not to eat meat. You can choose to shave your head. You can go and live in the desert and subsist on locusts and honey. You can do whatever you like, and if you have reasons for choosing those things, well, more power to you.
I just don't think that masturbation is especially harmful in a general way, and I don't think it's got much to do with spirituality one way or the other, unless it's something that's distracting or obsessive. That was pretty much my only point, and I intended it to be lighthearted. I know it's easy to get mistaken in plain text, and I do apologise if I came across all stern, but, honestly, it's not as serious as all that.
I wonder how anyone could read outrage or intolerance into what I wrote? There was no such intention

Hehe I love you Dont worry, I knew, I am good at reading people. What I write is usually precicely formulated for a reason.

The little body energy that is given away by ejaculating or whatever is in my opinion really insubstantial. Else you would feel literally and strongly drained. Your body would tell you, it knows best.

Some do get substantially drained. Depends on the person, how grounded they are (the more grounded, the less drained for me), if they have a neg, what they believe the effects are, etc.

i once knew a guy who so strongly believed in conserving his energy that he would swallow all his fluid after ejaculating, every time.

This is a little off track from the feel of the thread perhaps; The energy can be reclaimed, but it will go back to where it came from.
There are 3 substances in semen. It is only the milky fluid excreated from the prostate that is energeticly charged. And according to science, it is that fluid that gives sperm life and movement. Women have a similar substance that does the same thing.

it shouldnt be automaticly dismissed without further discussion.

This is further discussion.

Is now

If sex were viewed as what it is, a normal biological impulse, it wouldn't be given such importance, and advertisers wouldn't be able to use it to sell products.
If celibacy weren't viewed as a 'badge of honor', there would be a lot less priests molesting children, or less pedophiles would become priests to have access to them in the first place.
I could go on and on, but you get the picture.

Please go on! I knew there was good reasoning behind your strong feelings.

(unrelated to previous posts)
I have money and items in my posession, I worked for it, but I dont own a thing, I only look after it, it is a higher form of the vow of poverty. In the same way you can have sex or masterbate and still be 'celebate', though you dont spend thought and effort chasing it, it is a childlike state of mind. However, this means you probably wont know when someone wants to have sex with you. I often misinterpret 'lets have sex' eyes as 'I love you' eyes.

Of course it is a normal biological response. We have many of those. But I'm not going to let a sack of mud make the decisions for me. It will either believe what I believe or not and be left behind when I die. Thats for each molecule to decide.
We need water. Sounds good. We're hungry. Lets eat then. I agree to some things.
If my body wants to go to a barnyard orgy but I dont see the value in it, its free to walk there itself