The new society thread

[CFTraveler]

I think that is one perception- society is a mix of people, but I do believe, as a whole, there is progress. Every time we backslide it seems as it's the worse it has ever been, but when we look at history we see that what we consider 'the worst', was seen as commonplace not that long ago. So I do think as a whole we're improving, it just doesn't seem like it from an individual perspective.

[Sinera]

I think that is one perception- society is a mix of people, but I do believe, as a whole, there is progress. Every time we backslide it seems as it's the worse it has ever been, but when we look at history we see that what we consider 'the worst', was seen as commonplace not that long ago. So I do think as a whole we're improving, it just doesn't seem like it from an individual perspective.

Depends on the time span but also regional factors if you look at it. If we consider our 'modern/new' times to span a few centuries (maybe since industrial revolution) then we still have e.g. the devastating World Wars, the Atomic Bombs on Japan and many calamaties more 'in the now' including all today's war zones however they come/came to be.

So I think not a lot has become better since the days of Cesar or Dzingis Khan or whatever conquerers causing mass slaughter, war, plight, famine disaster you want to take as reference.

I believe in the Indian Yugas though and that there was a Golden Age once but it is lost in history (erroneously seen as 'pre-'history), being many millenia ago. Has to do with the (astrological/sun/astronomical) cycles I suppose.

[Antares]

There were many "hippie movements" before in history, stressing liberty and nature and free spirituality

I would say there were many, many revolutions in the history, but each was unique, as there are LOTS to change / transform in the society, politics, mentality, economy, art, education etc. In the sense the hippie movement seems to be unique. Therefore I wouldn't treat all of them in the same way.

I think that is one perception- society is a mix of people, but I do believe, as a whole, there is progress

I think this is exactly the key point!

The society is a mix.

And it's not good: the minorities - minorities in whatever sense, including the viewpoints or choices - suffer.

I believe that this is the key: it's a mix of a wide variety, yet treated as a single mass without variety. The differences are not respected, but they should. It's not just male-female division (which recently also seems to be belittled); people differ a lot also in terms of mentality, interests, a level of development (in whatever sense), approach to ecology, approach to medicine, work, money, free time, food etc. This is where "mass democracy" today seems to fail, ignoring this diversity.

not a Product of a night out partying and so on....

Interesting point So this is exactly how things are now. Children are products. In fact, everyone seems like a product. I hold nothing against make-ups or anything, but it seems that people "must" be attractive products, then making new "products" (children), which are raised with the same mentality in mind.

it was a very healthy era...to show more freedom and freedom does create more ideas...go back more to organic living without the poisoning of the agricuture and so on.....yes there is so much to say and what has to be changed for us to get healthy World on all aspects and levels of mind. But still I Believe that too much drugs is never good it will destroy the brain….I was Young on the -70...I did see much what drugs did do to my friends and many died too Young.

I cannot agree more with that. And lots of my friends also died because of drugs, too.

Have you heard about the ancient Chinese I-Cing book?

Most of people in the western world see it as an oracle, which is the most popular application of the 64 hexagrams (symbolizing the concept of the universe "condition" at a particular moment) of which descriptions the book consists.

The less popular viewpoint is that it's the taoist (especially) and the confucianist treatment on the universe in general, and in particular the alchemical tranformations and achievements.

The I-Cing has infinite applications, one of which is medicine. The other might be the society. I'm not a "vivid user" of the I-Cing, yet I know how powerful it is. Possibly, the wisdom inherent in this book could be a framework for the social transformations - not as an oracle, but rather as the guidelines, which are the main points of the hexagrams descriptions.

In this sense, the society is a "unit" like anything else, and the Chinese (and others) alchemy teaches about splitting and merging "things", being the basis of reasonable transformations.

[Sinera]

Regarding the Hippie 'movement'. I know that it is a kind of 'conspiracy' theory again, but some interesting facts emerged. I saw a similar video (in my language) a year or so ago and now found this one in English. What are your thoughts about the assertion that the hippie movement (which was not the same as the anti-war movement then) was (at least in part) engineered by the "powers"? It is said that it was to subvert the antiwar movement (which was genuine) of that time.

Here one informative video but also taken with a grain of salt since we cannot confirm all the facts or need not follow all conclusions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2GjY8DN-7I

Taken from the vid description:

Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon How did an uncanny amount of rock superstars emerge from the rustic Laurel Canyon scene of the mid 60s when the primary music centers of the US at that time were NYC, Nashville, and Detroit? Why were many of these future stars sons and daughters of the military/intelligence complex and extreme privilege who just happened to all arrive in LA at the same time? From the Lizard King Jim Morrison to Frank Zappa, the Mamas and Papas, the Byrds, Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young, even the Monkees, they all had conspicuous family heritages that did not exactly jive with what would become the free love, anti war soundtrack of a generation. Meanwhile, looming behind these musicians was a dark underbelly of Hollywood stars, young turks, the mob, shadowy intelligence assets, and charmers like little Charlie Manson who everyone liked at first.. How and why did this all happen? And what about that covert military installation on Lookout Mountain? Are you ready to have your rock and roll fantasies challenged? You may never listen to this music the same way ever again.

I am certain still that a great part of the hippie movement was genuine, this is more referring to the music industry of the time which formed an important part of course (Woodstock, etc.).

Any thoughts on this?

[IA56]

Hi Antares,

Have you heard about the ancient Chinese I-Cing book?

No I have not, I will look up it. Thank´s

Love
ia

[Antares]

Thanks Sinera for sharing!

It's a very interesting and unpredicted way where this thread is turning to!

Unpredictability is one of the best things that may happen to a discussion, as it gives a rise to many new ideas no one has expected before!

I am certain still that a great part of the hippie movement was genuine, this is more referring to the music industry of the time which formed an important part of course (Woodstock, etc.).

Any thoughts on this?

This might mean that almost nothing comes from people, everything is previously "designed". In this sense, the society is just a product - of grazing by some, well, let's say "more intelligent (or aware) beings". People seem then like uncreative animals who cannot come up with anything beyond schemes given it by the... "leaders" of these herds, and perhaps the division (like countries) of the masses into "herds" is also due to a grand design. We are just watchers from "inside" - of the show in action, being a part of this show, whether we want it or not, just choosing how much we prefer to be involved - if aware of what is happening.

How such movements or global changes in general are created? In my opinion, nothing works without a considerable amount of force (or energy; and possibly magic involved to ensure things happening).

The design - thought - is always made first in mind, then in energy field. Any change needs therefore energy to manifest itself. Perhaps here lays the key to changes we are talking about in this thread.

But after all, I don't think that "being in charge" (i.e. replacing the "global sorceres", throwing them out of their thrones, participating in the eternal global "game of thrones" or anything) is what I feel I want to do. I'm a pacifist, even if with the anarchist ideas, by nature. I mean, I don't mind other creative participants, even if powerful, to play their parts.

Therefore, I think that watching such a movements like hippie, no matter where it arouse from, is just fun. What I'm thinking of when starting this thread is that the world turned into a direction I'm afraid is not what me, and many others as you can easily find, really want it to be. Therefore I'm analyzing and considering certain changes here.

[olyris]

But after all, I don't think that "being in charge" (i.e. replacing the "global sorceres", throwing them out of their thrones, participating in the eternal global "game of thrones" or anything) is what I feel I want to do. I'm a pacifist, even if with the anarchist ideas, by nature. I mean, I don't mind other creative participants, even if powerful, to play their parts.

I perceive that the "powers that be" most literally, just "be." It makes it a whole new spectacle when you consider that they are about as capable as paraplegics.

Therefore, I think that watching such a movements like hippie, no matter where it arouse from, is just fun. What I'm thinking of when starting this thread is that the world turned into a direction I'm afraid is not what me, and many others as you can easily find, really want it to be. Therefore I'm analyzing and considering certain changes here.

To create is to allow creative others, and, well, destroying has to happen before then - they call it "making room for new ideas" technically, I would suggest.

The energy to destroy begets the energy to create. War, was formally destroyed after WWII, in my logic. The Luciferian rebellion was create to save face. The species did not have a God within it. Here today, there is energy building to destroy whatever is in the way of infinite techonological efficacy. That created, the destroying is justified, harmless. There is something about compassion that makes everything perfect... olyris

[olyris]

It is remarkable, very valuable message

I firmly convinced, that you are not right. Time will show.

I think, that you are not right. I can prove it. Write to me in PM, we will discuss.

this remarkable idea is necessary just by the way

It absolutely agree with the previous phrase

Spamguy: Try as I might, I cannot out-think an analytical thesis that I have formulated - just for you: universe is not negative

Is there anything else that you would sort of like to sort of share?

[olyris]

The prime key to new society is really like a constitution. A bill of rights sort of thing whereby everybody knows where they are and what they stand for. Possibly religion is getting a little outdated for now. I see an opening where morality has been making mistakes... Transformation - a human right, to one's own wellbeing. Takes only spiritual practice over time once (we) have the blueprint.

[Antares]

The prime key to new society is really like a constitution. A bill of rights sort of thing whereby everybody knows where they are and what they stand for. Possibly religion is getting a little outdated for now. I see an opening where morality has been making mistakes... Transformation - a human right, to one's own wellbeing. Takes only spiritual practice over time once (we) have the blueprint.

I also think that the religion is getting a bit outdated now. Or at least the concept of religion needs a vialable update. The practical reality is that everyone has a certain general philosophy - about the reality, world and everything. There are not two the same philosophies, as there are not two the same people.

Constitution however was a solution that has been already tried, with the big ideals standing behind it. United States were created this way. The attempt of the formal, rigid rules imposed on the whole society brought the result as we can see today, after more than 200 years from that time (not that much in fact).

So perhaps it's time to abandon the concept of "country". And it wasn't always this way as today people think it needs always stay the same way: in the old times you had only cities and surroundings; the cultural borders were more flexible than today (if you wanted to insist on their existence). Like in the realms and times of the ancient Mesopotamia or Phoenicia.

The difference for e.g. Phoenicians was that these people were under constant threat of a physical invasion, which occured from time to time from the more aggressively oriented groups (I consiously don't use the term of "nation"). We have a different situation now: we can use the current order of countries to create a new approach to living in general. Countries are not important themselves, but since they already are there, we can use this order for our benefits, not against us, staying flexible.

On the other hand, conscious division means practically a free choice - where one wants (feels) where he or she belongs to.

Balanced or unbalanced - the choice is yours, and only yours. Don't follow the other people's philosophies born in the same place (country). You can make a choice any time you want again, at any moment you want. It's not that simple when considering the resources needing to be shared in the "global village" in which we live today, being more a "village" than "global" more than anytime before. (And, therefore, perhaps the concept of the "resources" and the "needs" standing behind them requires a vialable update as well - and the whole economics as well; Adam Smith wrote about the times when he lived, but his ideas seem to be also outdated).

SOCIAL WARS, RIGID RULES AND FREE CHOICE

In fact, this - the free choice and the commonly so-called law of attraction - is something that is the law of the universe, but due to the specifics of the material reality is not as clearly seen and understood here.

For instance, take the social wars - of which you can hardly read or see in the tv, or generally in the official media. (I.e. they are, like many important subjects, beyond the common - or "official" - consciousness, yet are the actual experience). Like the constant, daily-based war between female and male. No constitution would change it. Only understanding and consciousness. Even if you had something like 10 commandments in the Christian religion (the solution tried thousands of years ago), treated as the ultimate "sanctity", it would not change the daily lives of people.

So the alchemical power of consiousness is the universal tool, I think - no matter how "mystic" it sounds, consciousness is also a very mundane thing. Focusing on the ideas and the prevailing paradigms, and the resulting tools, might create something like a movement, not necesserily formal - and the "new society" could emerge then in the imperceptible way.

THE FREE CITY CONCEPT, a possible step into the more free society

I've read recently about the history of Singapur. It's really interesting how fast a city like this one can grow from a small village having no valuable reources. And it made people living there suprisingly rich. The only issue that I have with Singapur is that it seems to be overly business-oriented. On the other hand, Tibetean nation seems to be the opposite extreme: spirituality overwhelms everything. It's not the balanced way.

What I'm talking here is not the economical or spiritual freedom - although the economical self-sufficiency is always desired. It's rather an idea of the freedom in itself. Yet, the smaller group that everyone can join anytime (like you can go to Singapur anytime you wanted) seems to me to be a perfect solution now.

So in general, the concept of "country" has too much power over the people's lives. It chokes the freedom of choices. If we wanted to stay always the same forever - new ideas would never emerged. If you are born, for instance, English, it is expected for you to go the "English" way. If you were born German, you are expected to go the "German" cultural way. This conceptual framework makes no sense any more in the current times.