Beyond Enlightenment. Warning...Not for Sissies.

okay...i admit i haven't been able to find it in myself to read through this 'entire' thread, but out of the last few pages this jumped out at me.

tempest wrote:

And, that's the point. At some time, you have to just let it go and recognize that you are never going to be good enough, wise enough, perfect enough. And, stop beating yourself up about it.

from glazing...i'm assuming (temp) you're at the let-it-all-go phase. still something about this sentence is trapped (still). just wondering if you see that as well?!? personally thinking...you still need to work through some of the "good/not good" stuff.

just that from where you speak of coming from...you think it would be more...

"and, at some point you awaken to the truth that you are good, wise, and perfect, and have always been". not that i'm trying to put words in your mouth!

[faerylight]

Even Jesus failed. If he asked God why God had forsaken him on the cross, then at that moment, Jesus didn't get it right. God is everything and cannot forsake Itself. So, maybe Jesus came back in another lifetime to make up for that one blunder?

Depends on what version of that scene you read, since there are more than one. In my favorite, he says "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." So there's one for every philosophy.

That's the version I feel is closest to the "truth". Who knows though, so much about that book is corrupt - by way of subtraction of texts, bad translation and downright fabrication *sigh*. That's another thread though.

[faerylight]

still something about this sentence is trapped (still). just wondering if you see that as well?!? personally thinking...you still need to work through some of the "good/not good" stuff.

That's what I was sensing too, just not great at expressing exactly what I mean to say.

lol.....
YOU'RE GREAT AT EXPRESSING WHAT YOU MEAN!!!

you just don't feel you can be honest here. and you can't. there's something else that reigns above honesty in this forum.
can you guess what it is???

of course, you 'can' be honest but again it splits, and ultimately ends up stuck. one way and people just take things way too "personal", the other way and it goes back to that poetic mirroring thing and the chance that we're taking it way too personal. ah, the little glitches that arise with waking up.
to me...when everything feels to be constructed from the same material = illusion. pretending, playing, manipulating, and mucking through all the *make-believe*. agreeing to be weak so we don't intimate. pretending to be nice so we don't hurt. playing that we're friends so the rules of engagement are clear, etc. etc. things that are all very messy & can't be cleaned up or straightened out...just needs to be dropped altogether. speaking in a general sense about society. not here, not there, not anyone in particular. (see...how i feel i *have* to add that so no one gets defensive?!?)

i'd love to speak freely without worrying about that garbage, but that leads to heavy moderation, thread locking, robert warnings, deleted posts, and ultimately getting banned. not to mention the blood-letting! that of course is why i started my own forum though, but no one hangs out there. my point being..............people LIKE the drama! people like to amass and hammer stuff out into 'nothings'. not that there isn't a whole lot of great stuff happening here, but a lot of it ring-around-rosy (pointless yaw-yawing).

mostly from what i'm aware of a big glitch for people (besides ego) is EXPECTATIONS. very interesting subject to me. how unbelievably hard it is to let go of what's expected (GOOD or BAD)...and why?!?

[Tempestinateapot]

Hey MoM, I wondered if you'd ever get around to this thread. It's right up your alley (you cat!). I think you jumped the gun a little bit by not reading the entire thread. But, it's long, and not really about anyone but me (in my head), so why would you?

from glazing...i'm assuming (temp) you're at the let-it-all-go phase. still something about this sentence is trapped (still). just wondering if you see that as well?!? personally thinking...you still need to work through some of the "good/not good" stuff.

I like how you call me "temp" instead of "Tempest" or "Tiatp". Since I am rather temporary. Don't you think my new name fits me?

Back to the subject, but no, I don't think I need to work through the good/not good stuff. I get it. What I do with it after that is merely a choice. Robert and I had a little chit chat about all this. I wanted to quit because I figured I was going to piss off 99% of the people who bothered to read this thread. I was in a very angry phase at the time. Which was really necessary for me based on how important a God of love had been to me. Robert wanted me to hang in there, said he also had been through the same thing. Listening to him and CF paid off in the long run. Their basic tenet was that if everything is an illusion, and God is really a hands-off God, then why not do what makes you happy? And, that can include love.

So, things have kind of come full circle. I see the illusion, I see the ego and it's role, but as long as I'm wearing these human clothes, I'm not going to be able to get rid of the ego completely. Unless I want to go be a hermit, which doesn't appeal to me at this point. Maybe later. So, for me, it's come down to....what does it matter? Live in the illusion, enjoy the illusion, but know it for what it really is. Knowing on a very high level doesn't mean you can't play the game anymore. It just means you play with a lot more awareness. So, if I'm going to play, I have a lot of choices. I can evolve, I can devolve, or I can be stagnant. The first one is really the only one that appeals to me, though devolving now and then can be kind of funny. Hey, that's why I've got you.

After going through this ummm...I don't even know what to call it, everything seems a lot clearer, a lot more beautiful, and a lot more funny. Unlike you (I think?), I think we created all this. And, it's really rather cool. I don't see the world as a place of horror or a place of goodness anymore. I see it's just one hell of a creation.

[faerylight]

Responding to MoM :

Ya, huh. I agree it is tough to say what you want to say, in a bold and clear manner without getting jumped on or flat out ignored. Diluted honesty is what it feels like, only being able to gently hint at what you really want to say for fear someone will take it the wrong way or go off on you (gotta be gentle with those egos! they are a touchy lot). If everyone (including myself) would just stop looking at how they might be getting their toes stepped on and look at what is being said in a more objective way, might be a lot more sharing of ideas (growth?) and a lot less digging in of heels into our own belief systems.

Funny you mention expectations. I was just talking about this with my sister-in-law the other day and have done some pondering on this. Still pondering on how much I have allowed expectations to taint my vision and generally screw me up.

About doubting intuition all together - not a wise move, imo. Again, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's important to look at what you *think* your gut is telling you for signs of belief paint. Scrape it clean and look at again. I have often mistaken what I have *wanted* to see and feel for genuine intuitive signals from the Higher Self. Easy to do! What I have learned to do is to hold those in 'reserve', examine them for signs of internal garbage and see which ones turn out to be of real substance. After doing this for almost a year now, I'm just starting to be able to discern true intuitive signals from feelings that are actually driven by my egos desires and fears. No expert at it by any means, but I have found through personal experience that while intuition might not be the end all be all, it is an important tool, but one that must be honed.

[Tempestinateapot]

Oh, and about this quote:

And, that's the point. At some time, you have to just let it go and recognize that you are never going to be good enough, wise enough, perfect enough. And, stop beating yourself up about it.

Since I know what I mean, but apparently some don't, I'll clarify. I am good enough. Always was, always am, always will be, because there is no contest. I AM doesn't make mistakes. We just create experiences.

[Tempestinateapot]

I don't know, faerylight, honing intuition can still be just your ego mucking things up. I can be really psychic at times, but rather than helping me, for the most part, it's gotten me in trouble. Other people don't like it when you know something before they do. Unfortunately, I'm most psychic about "bad" things, which causes me to be to reactionary and jumpy.

Now, I figure my Higher Self is in it for the experience. And, HS wants me to be the creator of my own experience. Otherwise, I'd just be a puppet. So, while I'm trusting that my Higher Self (who is still playing the game in the illusion, but with awareness, by the way), is with me, that no connections are broken, I don't think HS's motive is to make everything lovely for me. I'm supposed to do that, if that's what I want to create. Once you get past all the lovey dovey stuff, everything is just fine the way it is. Everybody gets to choose their own path, and a bad one is just as good as a good one. Because, neither one is really bad or good. Evolving is just a choice. It's not an imperative. Seems kind of a logical conclusion, but I don't see how even that can be known without a doubt. Like I said before, the only thing I really know for absolutely positive is that I exist. Everything else is up for debate.

[tom99]

So, things have kind ofLive in the illusion, enjoy the illusion, but know it for what it really is. Knowing on a very high level doesn't mean you can't play the game anymore. It just means you play with a lot more awareness. So, if I'm going to play, I have a lot of choices.

I don't see the world as a place of horror or a place of goodness anymore. I see it's just one hell of a creation.

Actually I'm getting close to this set of mind you're describing. It took me a couple of weeks or something to digest all of this information (combined with a lot of thinking in the past year).

I turned very indifferent/angry to other people and life in general the past couple of weeks. Negativity was ruling all of my thoughts..

I came to the conclusion I'm going to 'fight' for my dreams anyway. Even if it's all useless, primary/secundary education has created my self in this reality. So the easiest thing for me is just to live by it & be content with everything I do and who I am in general. Just living the illusion.

I'm doing much better now, thanks for the replies btw

[faerylight]

I hear you and I actually don't subscribe to the belief that the HS is *as* involved as most would like to think. I do think this incarnation is in it for the experience and that there is definitely an element of free will with respect to this incarnations decisions and choices. I also don't think that your HS's sole purpose is to make everything all lovey dovey for you. For example, I had a choice to make about a year ago regarding whether or not to sign up for a type of training. I asked someone who has proven ability to communicate with HS's to ask my HS what it thought and here's what it/I said "Why not? She'll learn something." This response gave me pause and made me think about the whole 'experience' gig. No matter how it might have turned out - a sham or the real deal, it's true, I would 'learn' something, lol.

I also think we are each of us connected to our HS at all times, it's a matter of awareness of that connection and ability to 'download' info from that aspect of ourselves, not a matter of whether or not the connection is there. Intuition, imo, is a form of connection with the HS, just takes practice and care to learn how to discern the info coming from the HS, as said in my previous post.

I don't see that the only thing intuition is good for is to avoid bad situations though (not saying you are saying that, but just in case...). I see it as being a very helpful tool in communicating with people and understanding what they need, especially when they are not able to vocalize it well themselves. Can really help when one is working as a therapist. Something I think I should have done with this life and might still. That's the kind of intuition I find very useful. It also helps in attaining more information about people and situations from 'behind the scenes', allowing me to make more informed decisions that hopefully faciliate the growth of all concerned, growth being one of those words that many find easy to put a rosy spin on. A lot of growth can come from unpleasant situations, so, that's the kind of growth I'm talking about - the good, the bad, the ugly, not just the puppy dogs, ice cream and rainbow kind.