Are you guys normal:)?

[CFTraveler]

Something I have been pondering lately...do OOBE REALLY prove afterlife? Or does it just prove that your consciousness can leave your body?

I'm no expert, just an experiencer who likes to write.... and I don't think OBEs prove anything in the scientific sense. If you do this long enough and learn to maneuver, you may change your mind, but chances are, the only way to change your mind is to have an experience that can be verified, and specific enough to convince you. That may or may not happen.

As to afterlife theories, if you are a materialist, Anthony Peake's ITLADian theories may be interesting to you. It may challenge your worldview, but that's what we like to do, right?

[astral_1976]

As to afterlife theories, if you are a materialist, Anthony Peake's ITLADian theories may be interesting to you. It may challenge your worldview, but that's what we like to do, right?

Oh! I am so done with science when it comes to "mind". I read all different theories similiar to this, one particular example is Hameroff and Penrose (Objective reduction). These guys are onto something but none prove anything - all these theories are hard to be proven empirically.

Dalai Lama once said something interesting. He said: There are two types of science...
One- the science of matter. In matter science western civilizations re way advance compared to buddhists. He acknowledges the importance of material science tho.
Second - the science of mind- he says western civilizations are thousand years behind compared to buddhists. I buy that. OBE to me is a great proof of after life. But I acknowledge there are too many unknowns. For instance, one thing that bugs me is the "memory" problem. When I am out of my body, I can still remember a lot of things. But memory stored in brain and it is nothing more than chemical activity. So how come I still have memory when I am out. Either memory doesn't take place in brain or I am still connected to my physical brain when I am out and somehow there is an information transfer.

But if I have to choose between science and buddhism, I choose buddhism because of their deep experience with mind. I agree with Dalai Lama, they discover so many things and our modern science has a lot of catching up to do!

[atanas]

OBE to me is a great proof of after life. But I acknowledge there are too many unknowns. For instance, one thing that bugs me is the "memory" problem. When I am out of my body, I can still remember a lot of things. But memory stored in brain and it is nothing more than chemical activity. So how come I still have memory when I am out. Either memory doesn't take place in brain or I am still connected to my physical brain when I am out and somehow there is an information transfer.

or you're staying in the body all the time and not going anywhere during an OBE. That explains many of these complications...

[Serpentarius]

I am curious, however, how do you see yourselves?

The voices in my head are saying I'm quite normal.

[Sinera]

memory doesn't take place in brain

yep!
That is my conclusion now. Everything that belongs to the mind (be it memory or thinking capacity or subconscious processing or whatever) is actually taking place "outside" (the latter in quotation marks since it is outside of 4D / spacetime, so 'outside' does not refer to "space" as we know it).

But if I have to choose between science and buddhism, I choose buddhism because of their deep experience with mind. I agree with Dalai Lama, they discover so many things and our modern science has a lot of catching up to do!

double-yep!
Btw, I just finished Fritjof Capras (now almost 'classic') "The Tao of Physics" that compares the ancient Eastern mystic teachings with modern science, esp. the new physics. Great work.
I also recently read Amit Goswami's "Physics of the Soul", he also tries to equate modern QM concepts with the tenets of the 'Tibetan Book of the Dead'. Pretty interesting although it is also pretty speculative, still. Anyway, recommendable in my view.

Together with Thomas Campbell, for me these three guys together form the spearhead of open-minded scientific theorists. (Of course, there are more!).

[astral_1976]

That is my conclusion now. Everything that belongs to the mind (be it memory or thinking capacity or subconscious processing or whatever) is actually taking place "outside" (the latter in quotation marks since it is outside of 4D / spacetime, so 'outside' does not refer to "space" as we know it).

I recommend Bohm and holographic brain theories-if you haven't seen yet. Hologrpahic universe view is getting more support and evidence each day. So in my opnion, it makes a lot of sense if memories are stored outside the brain. There are a lot of cases that classical science fail to explain the experiences of some individuals thru "memory-stored-in-brain" view.

[astral_1976]

or you're staying in the body all the time and not going anywhere during an OBE. That explains many of these complications...

so what are you suggesting that OBE is an hallucination caused within the brain?

[CFTraveler]

No, metaphysically speaking, we are mind, body and soul. Our bodies in the material sense occupy time and space, but in the subatomic state, we also occupy nonlocality, that is, there is a part of us that is everywhere at once. The OBE focuses your conscious awareness into that part of your energy that exists within this nonlocal state, and the OBE is a movement of your conscious awareness into that nonlocal state.
So your consciousness expands and 'moves' into a nonlocal state, where it can detect information from those states, and then move back into the physical state where it downloads the information into our brain, where it turns into images, sounds and feelings, and in a way into memories for us to perceive as physical input.

Or something like that.

[astral_1976]

No, metaphysically speaking, we are mind, body and soul. Our bodies in the material sense occupy time and space, but in the subatomic state, we also occupy nonlocality, that is, there is a part of us that is everywhere at once. The OBE focuses your conscious awareness into that part of your energy that exists within this nonlocal state, and the OBE is a movement of your conscious awareness into that nonlocal state.
So your consciousness expands and 'moves' into a nonlocal state, where it can detect information from those states, and then move back into the physical state where it downloads the information into our brain, where it turns into images, sounds and feelings, and in a way into memories for us to perceive as physical input.

Or something like that.

I didn't know you are into QM...I am glad to see you are..practice+theory, that is powerful. You keep impressing me...

Your theory in a way make sense...but since you are trying to explain OBE thru scientific terms, then you also need to define "conscious awareness". In your response you mentioned that but you didn't explain what it is - i.e. magnetic field, quantum information etc.
What is conscious awareness?

[CFTraveler]

I would qualify it as 'the observer', or the perceiver. I just consider it the part of me that observes, the point of view.
In QM it would be that which measures. As controversial as it is, I'll take Dr. F.A. Wolf's description of it. (because I like it. )