Free Will Paradox

[Reav3R]

Definition of Free Will (Assumption): We assume having free will means having the ability to pick one or more choice(s) (but not all) out of definite or indefinite choices; that one or more choice(s) could be any of the various options.
The Paradox: The only way to prove that you have the ability to pick a (any) choice is by picking that (one) choice, and since you can only pick one or more (but not all) of the various choices, you can't prove that you had the ability to pick anything other than those particular choice(s) already made.
Example: I give you a cup of fatal poison and ask you whether you have the ability to drink the cup. You can reason that you do have the ability but you won't drink it because of common sense. I argue that you don't have the ability to drink it because common sense prevents you from drinking it no matter how hard you try. You can't prove that you have the ability to drink it because you won't do it, so you don't have the ability to drink that cup. Consequently, you don't posses the free will to do so either. This example can be expanded to everything (minus choices already made).
Conclusion: Since you can't make all the possible choices there is to make, you can't prove that you had the ability to choose any of those choices (other than the ones already made), therefore you had no control over the choices already made. Consequently, you don't posses any free will. By proving free will exists (making all possible choices at the same time), you also prove that it doesn't exist because if all choices can be made simultaneously, then the definition of free will would be invalid.

Does that make any sense to anyone here?

[IA56]

Hi Reav3R,
I feel that your example is not accurat, it is very one sided so to speak. Off course I can drink the poison if I want to kill myself, and therefore can meet up to your task asked. I do not think you can argue this way....
You have used your free will by saying No to your offer of to drink poison, then I can only wonder why you would even come up with this kind of thought??

Love
ia

[Reav3R]

Hi Reav3R,
You have used your free will by saying No to your offer of to drink poison, then I can only wonder why you would even come up with this kind of thought??

How can you prove that a chain of previous events and thoughts set from the very beginning of existence hasn't set things up for you to make that No choice at the present? That's my point. How do you prove that you used your free will to make such a choice and how will you prove that you actually had the ability to say Yes if you have already taken No?

How can you know you could've done A instead of B if B is already done, the only way to prove you can do something is by doing it and if you have already done X in the past then you can't prove you could've done something else unless you change the past which is impossible.

[IA56]

How can you prove that a chain of previous events and thoughts set from the very beginning of existence hasn't set things up for you to make that No choice at the present? That's my point. How do you prove that you used your free will to make such a choice and how will you prove that you actually had the ability to say Yes if you have already taken No?

How can you know you could've done A instead of B if B is already done, the only way to prove you can do something is by doing it and if you have already done X in the past then you can't prove you could've done something else unless you change the past which is impossible.

By knowing that it is poison you offer, there is Always knowledge to lean at, from beginning all knowledge was to know by try and error...as if you look at rat´s they send a weak or sick individual from the Group to eat new food what they do not have any knowledge about, to see if it is safe....so we have a knowledge bank inside of us all...we have lived many Lifes.

Love
ia

[Reav3R]

By knowing that it is poison you offer, there is Always knowledge to lean at, from beginning all knowledge was to know by try and error...as if you look at rat´s they send a weak or sick individual from the Group to eat new food what they do not have any knowledge about, to see if it is safe....so we have a knowledge bank inside of us all...we have lived many Lifes.

Love
ia

Let me make another example:

I ask you to pick 1, 2 or 3 and only pick one, prove you have the ability to pick either 1, 2 or 3. The moment you give me the number you picked, I argue that you couldn't have picked another number by choice, how do you prove I'm wrong logically?

[IA56]

Let me make another example:

I ask you to pick 1, 2 or 3 and only pick one, prove you have the ability to pick either 1, 2 or 3. The moment you give me the number you picked, I argue that you couldn't have picked another number by choice, how do you prove I'm wrong logically?

There is no logic to prove, but accept the fact that I did use my free will and picked one number. When known all 3 alternatives you can start to Think if it was the best choice, but when not knowing what the numbers represent, when you know more about each of the numbers you can start to argue about the intuition was the one who helped in your choice by some kind of sensing to be the best choice for you.

Love
ia

[Reav3R]

There is no logic to prove, but accept the fact that I did use my free will and picked one number. When known all 3 alternatives you can start to Think if it was the best choice, but when not knowing what the numbers represent, when you know more about each of the numbers you can start to argue about the intuition was the one who helped in your choice by some kind of sensing to be the best choice for you.

Love
ia

That's my point, it's impossible to logically prove my claim therefore it remains unresolved and free will doesn't exist because you can't satisfy the assumption requirements BUT if you somehow logically prove then free will doesn't exist because the problem ends up in a paradox with both outcomes leading to non-existence of free will. The cycle ends up in infinity and whatever the possible answer is, free will can't exist.

[IA56]

That's my point, it's impossible to logically prove my claim therefore it remains unresolved and free will doesn't exist because you can't satisfy the assumption requirements BUT if you somehow logically prove then free will doesn't exist because the problem ends up in a paradox with both outcomes leading to non-existence of free will. The cycle ends up in infinity and whatever the possible answer is, free will can't exist.

Yes, in that contex it is true...the eternity contex....you have to accept to go up or into Gods will so to speak...and be ONE with it.

Love
ia

[Reav3R]

Yes, in that contex it is true...the eternity contex....you have to accept to go up or into Gods will so to speak...and be ONE with it.

Love
ia

I didn't quite understand the relevance of this sentence of yours but regardless, my point was:

There are three outcomes and all of them point out that free will can't exist:
1) You fail to prove free will exists.
2) You prove free will doesn't exist by trying to prove it does (through paradox)
3) You prove free will doesn't exist by failing to prove it does (through paradox)

[IA56]

I didn't quite understand the relevance of this sentence of yours but regardless, my point was:

There are three outcomes and all of them point out that free will can't exist:
1) You fail to prove free will exists.
2) You prove free will doesn't exist by trying to prove it does (through paradox)
3) You prove free will doesn't exist by failing to prove it does (through paradox)

I can´t say it in other way than....acceptance that we do not have free will...only to some extent...and that is to go towards the truth by try and error, and in one point there will be the life force meeting up you and you will accept the fact that there is only ONE and you are a part of it....and when you accept then you have come back home.
I have no other words to try to talk about the eternity and the ONENESS.

Love
ia